[HH1.0] Salamanders Tactics

[God-Potato of Mankind]

I don't think the AdMech models get to take advantage of the strength bonus for flamers. Vehicles do in the formation but I think that is all.

 

I could be missing some important rule, if so that's a cool option I will have to think about.

 

Yah on looking at the rules, some Legions have specially modified Legion 'Automata' rules but Salamanders don't.

 

So the Praevian's robots get Legion rules. Voila +1S flamers :D Times two! 

 

I think the MC Multi-meltas is legit too, RoW affects all units in the detachment; not ones with the Legiones Astartes rule iirc. Even then the robots technically do have the Legion rules..soooo it's all good! I hope. 

[Caillum]

Given the multi-melta Castellax models come with power blades, an argument could be made for taking them. You lose the Concussive rule, but gain an extra attack and Rending (admittedly, this is only useful against vehicles). This build wants to see melee combat, so the extra attack might be useful...

 

And yes, all the rules will carry onto the Castellax like you guys said. :)

[caladancid]

Speaking of extra strength flamers, I have lately been thinking about getting some Dreadclaws and dropping in my Contemptors while flying around scorching things. Has anyone else used Dreadclaws? I have no experience using them or even seeing them in action.

[Caillum]

Damn shame that the Dreadclaw's Heat Blast doesn't get a strength boost... For some tactica, check this thread!

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294303-dreadclaw-drop-pod-tactics/

[caladancid]

Why wouldn't it get the strength boost? The boost applies to vehicles, and the heat blast specifically says it is flamer based.

[Caillum]

The Salamanders rule "Promethean Gift" specifically calls out hand flamers, flamers and heavy flamers only. The mention of "flamer-based attacks" is in regards to defence.

[caladancid]

If it is a flamer for one thing shouldn't it be a flamer for all? To me it seems clear. The special rule says flamers get +1 S, the dreadclaw rules say heat blast is a flamer based attack. I would also think that attack would be at -1 S vs Salamanders as the rule says "flamer-type."

 

The rule for the negative says "in addition" which seems like both rules are ties together and that you can't have one effect without the other. (Which I guess wouldn't usually come up outside a mirror match)

[Caillum]

Yes, the Dreadclaw's fire sweep would be at -1 Strength against Salamanders, but they wouldn't be +1 Strength if used by Salamanders.

 

Flamestorm cannons are also a flamer-type attack, but as they aren't mentioned they don't get the benefit. The fact that they specifically state "hand flamers, flamers and heavy flamers" in one sentence and "flamer-type attacks" in the next means they meant it to be differentiated.

 

Another example is the Covenant of Fire, where you don't get master-crafting on Predators' magna-meltas or Pyroclasts' (focused) flame projectors, only on "meltaguns, inferno pistols and multi-meltas".

 

It wouldn't break the game if it extended to all flamer-type attacks, but I wish there was less ambiguity with the rules... :) If you're still unconvinced and want to question it further, bring it up in the Rules Forum.

[Kibosh]

Hello sons of Vulkan! I'm thinking of starting a second legion and Salamanders are in the running for a choice. Read through the tactica and really like what I'm seeing. Their noble demeanor and humanitarian nature also appeals to me fluff wise along with anything to do with the Promeathian Cult. Its easy being grim dark in a grim dark galaxy, its hard actually living up to the ideal and being the good guy even if it means self sacrifice. As Vulkan teaches anyway lol Anyway I put this list together and want you guys to take a look at it being the tactica experts before I make any purchases. Going for semi-competitive, but fluffy. Comments and Criticisms please!

 

2500pts: Salamanders

 

HQ:
Siege Breaker- Cataphractii, Stormshield, Chainfist
Give the Drakes some Tank hunter and a chainfist

 

Troops:
10 Tacticals- Rhino
Sgt- Artificer Armor, MC Power fist

 

10 Tacticals- Rhino
Sgt- Artifcer Armor

 

As with most things in 30, the troops are just tax speed bumps, maybe hold objectives

 

6 Pyroclasts- Meltabombs
Warden- MC Powerfist

 

Goes in the Achillies, rolles up and can handle multiple threats and hold objectives

 

Elites:

 

Contemptor- fist with heavy flamer, multimelta

 

Marches up with the tanks, jack of all trades master of none

 

Mortis- 2 multimelta

 

Anti fliers in a 24" bubble, and roasts tanks

 

5 Firedrakes- 3 Stormshield, Heavy Flamer, 4 Powerfists
Master- MC TH, Stormshield
Dedicated Trasport Spartan- Armoured Ceramite, Flare Shield

 

Vulkan goes in here, just a hammer of a unit, flank it with the other tanks and run it at the juiciest unit

 

Heavy Support:

 

Land Raider Achilies

 

Pyros in here, once again can kill pretty much everything, outside of CC

 

LoW:
Vulkan
LoW- The Covenant of Fire

 

Rides in the Spartan, Smashes everything... Vulkan Smash

 

List is really straight forward. Tank rush forward with the dreads and stay in a tight formation. Drakes and Vulkan focus down on a hard target and the rest have enough versatility to hit whatever kinds of targets come at them. Dedicated Close combat units might be a problem, armies with lots of fliers, and lastly if I have to play a mission with on a long board length against a gun line. Short or medium range I have faith in my durability.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Kibosh

[Hesh Kadesh]

For a weapon to gain +1 Strength, the model must have Legiones Astartes (Salamanders); a Dreadclaw doesn't have it, so it's a null question either way.

[caladancid]

The rule specifically says vehicles get the bonus so I don't agree it is a null question.

 

I would ask forgeworld about the previous distinction made by Caillum, but I've asked enough questions to expect the "you can feel free to house rule" response haha.

[1ncarnadine]

The rule specifically says vehicles get the bonus so I don't agree it is a null question.

 

I would ask forgeworld about the previous distinction made by Caillum, but I've asked enough questions to expect the "you can feel free to house rule" response haha.

 

I'm thinking it's still a no though, as the rule calls out only hand flamers, flamers and heavy flamers. There's no Strength bonus to the Predator Flamestorm cannon, for example. However, you will get the -1 S modifier when Dreadclaw heat blast attacks are made against you, so that's something.

[Hesh Kadesh]

The rule specifically says vehicles get the bonus so I don't agree it is a null question.

 

I would ask forgeworld about the previous distinction made by Caillum, but I've asked enough questions to expect the "you can feel free to house rule" response haha.

Heh, touche, didn't read that far ahead. Still don't understand why they have to include that rule under Legiones Astartes as it's irrelevant to Legiones Astartes XD. Give them an actually good trait.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Hello sons of Vulkan! I'm thinking of starting a second legion and Salamanders are in the running for a choice. Read through the tactica and really like what I'm seeing. Their noble demeanor and humanitarian nature also appeals to me fluff wise along with anything to do with the Promeathian Cult. Its easy being grim dark in a grim dark galaxy, its hard actually living up to the ideal and being the good guy even if it means self sacrifice. As Vulkan teaches anyway lol Anyway I put this list together and want you guys to take a look at it being the tactica experts before I make any purchases. Going for semi-competitive, but fluffy. Comments and Criticisms please!

 

2500pts: Salamanders

 

HQ:

Siege Breaker- Cataphractii, Stormshield, Chainfist

Give the Drakes some Tank hunter and a chainfist

 

Troops:

10 Tacticals- Rhino

Sgt- Artificer Armor, MC Power fist

 

10 Tacticals- Rhino

Sgt- Artifcer Armor

 

As with most things in 30, the troops are just tax speed bumps, maybe hold objectives

 

6 Pyroclasts- Meltabombs

Warden- MC Powerfist

 

Goes in the Achillies, rolles up and can handle multiple threats and hold objectives

 

Elites:

 

Contemptor- fist with heavy flamer, multimelta

 

Marches up with the tanks, jack of all trades master of none

 

Mortis- 2 multimelta

 

Anti fliers in a 24" bubble, and roasts tanks

 

5 Firedrakes- 3 Stormshield, Heavy Flamer, 4 Powerfists

Master- MC TH, Stormshield

Dedicated Trasport Spartan- Armoured Ceramite, Flare Shield

 

Vulkan goes in here, just a hammer of a unit, flank it with the other tanks and run it at the juiciest unit

 

Heavy Support:

 

Land Raider Achilies

 

Pyros in here, once again can kill pretty much everything, outside of CC

 

LoW:

Vulkan

LoW- The Covenant of Fire

 

Rides in the Spartan, Smashes everything... Vulkan Smash

 

List is really straight forward. Tank rush forward with the dreads and stay in a tight formation. Drakes and Vulkan focus down on a hard target and the rest have enough versatility to hit whatever kinds of targets come at them. Dedicated Close combat units might be a problem, armies with lots of fliers, and lastly if I have to play a mission with on a long board length against a gun line. Short or medium range I have faith in my durability.

 

Tis nice. I'd drop the PF on the first tactical, if they're just tax you can free up points for a Thunder Hammer on your Firedrakes.

 

How does the Siege Breaker confer Tank Hunters? Is it like Cognis where it's a nearby unit, or does he confer it to an attached unit? if so he needs to ride with the Pyroclasts or Firedrakes.

 

Otherwise the list is solid, Choomraider & Pyros is very thematic and one of my favourite things to run. It can really flex.

 

Spartan deathball always gets the nod, but I'd try and find points to get THs over PFs. SS/TH Termies ftw.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Siege Breaker has Tank Hunter rule and gives it to his squad with Heavy Weapon shooting attacks.

 

The irony is that because of how Tank Hunters works, the entirety of the squad gets Tank Hunters regardless of its other limitations (Forgeworld rules writers, Ho!).

[caladancid]

Hello sons of Vulkan! I'm thinking of starting a second legion and Salamanders are in the running for a choice. Read through the tactica and really like what I'm seeing. Their noble demeanor and humanitarian nature also appeals to me fluff wise along with anything to do with the Promeathian Cult. Its easy being grim dark in a grim dark galaxy, its hard actually living up to the ideal and being the good guy even if it means self sacrifice. As Vulkan teaches anyway lol Anyway I put this list together and want you guys to take a look at it being the tactica experts before I make any purchases. Going for semi-competitive, but fluffy. Comments and Criticisms please!

 

2500pts: Salamanders

 

HQ:

Siege Breaker- Cataphractii, Stormshield, Chainfist

Give the Drakes some Tank hunter and a chainfist

 

Troops:

10 Tacticals- Rhino

Sgt- Artificer Armor, MC Power fist

 

10 Tacticals- Rhino

Sgt- Artifcer Armor

 

As with most things in 30, the troops are just tax speed bumps, maybe hold objectives

 

6 Pyroclasts- Meltabombs

Warden- MC Powerfist

 

Goes in the Achillies, rolles up and can handle multiple threats and hold objectives

 

Elites:

 

Contemptor- fist with heavy flamer, multimelta

 

Marches up with the tanks, jack of all trades master of none

 

Mortis- 2 multimelta

 

Anti fliers in a 24" bubble, and roasts tanks

 

5 Firedrakes- 3 Stormshield, Heavy Flamer, 4 Powerfists

Master- MC TH, Stormshield

Dedicated Trasport Spartan- Armoured Ceramite, Flare Shield

 

Vulkan goes in here, just a hammer of a unit, flank it with the other tanks and run it at the juiciest unit

 

Heavy Support:

 

Land Raider Achilies

 

Pyros in here, once again can kill pretty much everything, outside of CC

 

LoW:

Vulkan

LoW- The Covenant of Fire

 

Rides in the Spartan, Smashes everything... Vulkan Smash

 

List is really straight forward. Tank rush forward with the dreads and stay in a tight formation. Drakes and Vulkan focus down on a hard target and the rest have enough versatility to hit whatever kinds of targets come at them. Dedicated Close combat units might be a problem, armies with lots of fliers, and lastly if I have to play a mission with on a long board length against a gun line. Short or medium range I have faith in my durability.

What role do you have in mind for the non mortis contemptor? It seems like the mortis will do everything you want, do you have the options available to change up the gear on the non mortis? I like the 2x DCCW personally, although it does seem like you are intentionally not specializing. Just something to think about.

[ElectricPaladin]

I'm still working my way through this thread, but I was hoping that you all could help me out with something. I've been reading through the books, and I just can't figure out the point of firedrake terminators. I mean, the models are awesome, of course, but seeing as how we can also give thunder hammers and storm shields to ordinary terminators, what's the point? What am I missing?

 

Also, while I'm asking questions of my veteran brothers...

 

Assuming I plan on eventually acquiring some firedrake terminators (an incredibly safe assumption - regardless of whether or not your answer to my question is satisfactory), what's the "best" way to equip the 10 terminators I'll be getting in my two Betrayal at Calth boxen?

[caladancid]

The point of the firedrakes is as follows: +1 WS, +1 W, optional storm shields (which are NOT an option for normal terminators in 30k and combined with the extra wound are craziness), and of course, total awesomeness haha.

 

-edit for clarity---storm shields not an option outside Salamanders and IF

Edited November 9, 2015 by caladancid

[ElectricPaladin]

I totally missed the +1 wound and WS. That definitely makes them worth it.

 

As to my second question... how would you recommend using ordinary terminators?

Edited November 9, 2015 by ElectricPaladin

[1ncarnadine]

Well, you're Salamanders, yo. Combi-flamers/heavy flamers are worth looking into for your bonus.

 

Otherwise it's a question of necessity. Need AP2 shooting to hurt primarchs or enemy 2+ save infantry, take combi-plas. Opponents running vehicles without armoured ceramite or you need some S8 shooting to negate opponents using FNP/generally cause instant death (maybe you regularly see Deathshroud), run combi-melta.

 

Chainfists are usually alright at a 1/5 or 2/5 ratio. Keep them cheap, especially if you're also planning on having Firedrakes (SO expensive). I'd even say to run them with majority power weapons but the BaC sprue only has fists/claws so that's bare minimum an extra ~25 pts you have to spend.

[ElectricPaladin]

Well, you're Salamanders, yo. Combi-flamers/heavy flamers are worth looking into for your bonus.

 

Otherwise it's a question of necessity. Need AP2 shooting to hurt primarchs or enemy 2+ save infantry, take combi-plas. Opponents running vehicles without armoured ceramite or you need some S8 shooting to negate opponents using FNP/generally cause instant death (maybe you regularly see Deathshroud), run combi-melta.

 

Chainfists are usually alright at a 1/5 or 2/5 ratio. Keep them cheap, especially if you're also planning on having Firedrakes (SO expensive). I'd even say to run them with majority power weapons but the BaC sprue only has fists/claws so that's bare minimum an extra ~25 pts you have to spend.

 

Well, you know. Conversion and kit-bashing is a thing.

 

But yeah, I see the cheap. Keep 'em cheap, with a focus on them as versatile troubleshooters and/or bullies for taking on infantry. Claws and power weapons, maybe a storm shield for the sergeant. When I get firedrakes, they're my super durable heavy hitters. Maybe I should make a reaper autocannon...

[God-Potato of Mankind]

I'd keep the AC on the regular Terminator squad. 

It's a bit wasted on Firedrakes. Regular terminators are BS4 so can put out the same firepower for much less cost, while still being fairly durable. 

 

The entire point of Firedrakes is to engage the enemy up close, take the Heavy Flamer. It's a far better option, especially with +1S. They're one of two Legions who can rock Thunder Hammer/Stormshield Terminators, make use of it. Otherwise regular termies for dakka. 

[Caillum]

If you're running Covenant of Fire, combi-meltas are definitely worth looking at on Terminators.

[caladancid]

I agree with the combi-flamers and combi-meltas. I wouldn't use chainfists, it seems like a waste of points. The cheaper you can keep normal terminators the better I think.

[ElectricPaladin]

Yeah - I meant an autocannon for the regular termies. I'll think about combi-meltas.