Future supplements and expanded background

[Dammeron]

There's been a great deal of speculation of late as to what people want to see in terms of rules from any potential Chaos Space Marine supplements. However, the Black Legion supplement's strengths lie firmly in the expanded background and history of the legion: this is arguably the first time since the Index Astartes articles that so much new details have been added, expanding upon the core details of the legion's character and adding all manner of beautiful redundant morsels to chew over.

 

I was particular impressed by how coherent, strong and competent the legion comes across, particularly its forger, Abaddon the Despoiler: it's wonderful to see him elevated beyond the status of uber-villain into something more. I particularly like those moments in which he seems to best daemons and agents of the gods through sheer strength of will.

 

With regards to any future supplements, what do people hope for their own legions of choice? As a dyed in the wool (silk?) Slaanesh worshipper, I'm hoping that, assuming there will be an Emperor's Children supplement, that it provides details of what the Emperor's Children got up during their assault upon and subsequent flight from Terra during the later stages of the heresy: who knows what obscenities they might have wrought as they were herded into the Eye of Terror, all the while shedding companies, warbands? I'd be particularly interested in seeing some details on splinter groups and cults from the legion; how they each venerate and express different aspects of the Dark Prince's creed. It would also be interesting to see some details of what ultimately became of Fulgrim: though largely defunct following the retcons that came about in the wake of several HH novels, the original Index Astartes article points out that Fulgrim is rumoured to have retreated to a semi-mythical world deep, deep within the Eye of Terror that has become a place of divine pilgrimage for Slaanesh worshippers of all stripe. It would also be fascinating to have a more detailed history of the Emperor's Children's early wars in the Eye of Terror; their preying upon the other Traitor Legions for slaves and fodder; the assaults upon the Sons of Horus and the cloning of the Warmaster's body. There's so much here to play with; i only hope that the background section is as rich and complex as that of the Black Legion.

 

 

[derpasaurus]

I play Night Lords, and I would love to see AT LEAST a suppliment for the other non-aligned Legion remnants. I looked at the Raven Guard Chapter Tactics in the new SM codex and the Night Lords rules from the new forgeworld '30k' book and just cried my poor, bitter heart out that I didn't get anything remotely similar.  

I just want something to set my murderers in bat-hats apart from some other guys who happen to be from the same book besides silly petwer heads. Heard a couple times from a couple places Tzeentch is getting something for chaos and perhaps daemons, as well... if they're doing God specific books even though they're already represented with cult troops at least in C:CSM, I guess there's hope yet.

[Dammeron]

I was thinking more along the lines of what people want to see in background terms: how do you think the Night Lords BG will be developed and expanded? My guess is that it will be brought more into line with what we've seen from the HH and ADB's novels: various factions splintering across the wider universe, each exploring and expressing their own particular interpretations of the Night Haunter's philosophies. It would also be fun to see something more of how the Night Lords interact with the other Traitor Legions, since I imagien they are the ones that have the greatest amount of contempt for the rest.

 

 

I'm also greatly looking forward to any potential work done on the Death Guard: though the Emperor's Children are undoubtedly my favourite legion, I've always had a thing for Mortarion's sons, and their background in the relevant Index Astartes article is fascinating: I'd love to see a more blow by blow account of what they experienced whilstn they were becalmed within the Warp. We have to bear in mind, this period could have been entire centuries from their own perspective, which would be appropriate, given how profoundly they change. Though the physical suffering they endure is interesting enough, I'd be more interested in seeing how their perceptions are altered and subverted by the Destroyer infection: how Mortarion eventually submits to Nurgle. Given how profoundly he has inurred himself against poisons, diseases and toxins, it must be a struggle of epic proportions and the suffering he endures must push him beyond the point of total insanity.

[Trevak Dal]

I'm kinda happy with the CSM books as it is, but if they were to do a World Eaters/Khorne one (which I use on everything except my 2 obliterators and 1 raptor squad) it'd be dandy.  Any supplement that gives me official droppods or open topped rhinos would be swell-but I manage with what I got playing aggressively with what Rhinos and such I have access to.

 

I'd like to see more fluff regarding that Khorne Lord who was going off all Predator mode on the Tyranids.  That was pretty cool.

[Brother Heinrich]

I was thinking more along the lines of what people want to see in background terms: how do you think the Night Lords BG will be developed and expanded? My guess is that it will be brought more into line with what we've seen from the HH and ADB's novels: various factions splintering across the wider universe, each exploring and expressing their own particular interpretations of the Night Haunter's philosophies. It would also be fun to see something more of how the Night Lords interact with the other Traitor Legions, since I imagine they are the ones that have the greatest amount of contempt for the rest.

 

I'm always for expanding the background, but at the same time I love the wide spectrum that has been created for the VIII Legion. It is a beautifully fractured legion, both in organization and in mindset. You have everything from warped monsters like the Exalted and Krieg Acerbus, to stoic warrior poets and idealists like Malcharion and Talos. It creates a truly excellent place from which to create a warband as the sky is the limit. I loved the Night Lord series and it definitely inspired my own warband, as well as many others, but I wouldn't want to see AD-B's vision of the 10th Company stamped onto the entire legion as a whole, it would take away from the insanely fractious legion that developed after the Night Haunter's death. My main concern, and many other Night Lords I'm sure, is a set of properly representative rules. It doesn't have to be some crazy book full of specific OP Night Lords rules and doodads, just a rule or two that actually set us apart as the VIII legion, not bat-flavored chaos.

[Monkeychunks]

I'd love to see a Night Lords supplement simply because I love the Legion. Plenty of scope for fluff as well:

 

- Curze's upbringing on Nostramo, his crusade against the local crimelords and his eventual coming to rule

- His introduction to the 8th Legion and how they greeted their obviously-troubled father

- The Legions operation under Terran commanders

- The Legions role in the Great Crusade

- Where the atrocities sanctioned by the Emperor as 'the loyal monster', or did Curze take liberties? Was the Emperor really capable of demanding such actions and then publicly shaming them for a job well done?

- Why was Curze sent to Istvaan?

- Their role in the Heresy

- The Thramas Crusade

- Their role in the siege of Terra

- The fallback to Tsagualsa and pillaging in the Eastern Fringes

- The Ultramarines assault against Tsagualsa

- The shattering of the Legion and key figures that rose to command each splinter

- 10,000 years of warfare

- The coming of Decimus and attempts to reforge the Legion

- Their role in the 13th Black Crusade and the invasion of Ulthwé

 

There is also tremendous scope for investigating their philosophies regarding the Gods and dependence upon them, or the loyalty among thieves, the traditions of Sinners Red, what they are fighting for....

 

Ruleswise:

- VotLW no longer confers +1Ld. Instead, it grants Hatred: Loyalists, Night Vision, Fear and Hit & Run. Any Blind Tests suffer a -1 penalty to Initiative however.

- 'Master of Traitors' and 'Master of the Rubricae' are both suspended. All Cult units are restricted to the Elites slot.

- Allies of Convenience with Chaos Space Marines and the Black Legion. Desperate Allies with Daemons. Otherwise, same table as the standard.

 

- Warlord table includes things like forcing Night Fight, your Warlord gaining the effects of a Dirge Caster, or granting Scout to certain units.

- If your Warlord has a Jump Pack, Raptors can be taken as Troops. Yes I know this was arbitrarily invented by 3.5 but like it or not, it's an army trait now.

- Artefacts include Sevatars Chain Glaive (with Teleport Homer!), some swanky Lightning Claws and 'Sinners Red' gauntlets, which need some trait to encourage sacrifice and throwing their lives away. Perhaps a Psyker-only talisman to grant access to Divination, although that one might be stretching it.

 

- Super wishlist mode? Chaos Drop Pods. Just bung em in there.

 

 

Other options include Red Corsairs, who can take Codex: Space Marines as a secondary detachment as Battle Brothers. Any allies chosen this way lose ATSKNF in favour of Champion of Chaos (....). Alternatively, the 'Book of Khorne/Nurgle/Tzeentch/Slaanesh' which work to tie together alliances of Marines and Daemons, offering incentives to roll mono-God in exchange for God-specific Warpstorms and Artefacts to fix some of the inherent weaknesses.

[Brother Heinrich]

I'd love to see a Night Lords supplement simply because I love the Legion. Plenty of scope for fluff as well:

 

- Curze's upbringing on Nostramo, his crusade against the local crimelords and his eventual coming to rule

- His introduction to the 8th Legion and how they greeted their obviously-troubled father

- The Legions operation under Terran commanders

- The Legions role in the Great Crusade

- Where the atrocities sanctioned by the Emperor as 'the loyal monster', or did Curze take liberties? Was the Emperor really capable of demanding such actions and then publicly shaming them for a job well done?

- Why was Curze sent to Istvaan?

- Their role in the Heresy

- The Thramas Crusade

 

Most of this is covered in Massacre.

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

 

With regards to any future supplements, what do people hope for their own legions of choice

 

Pretty much any new background, along with famous battle they taken part in & art work on the Iron Warriors.  This general led to me converting up new units for my own Iron Warriors force.  Also be great to get some Artefacts, would not mind seen something like the old daemonic Kai Gun.

 

Also possible allow us the Basilisk tank, just with Forge World release one in the near future for the Horus Heresy armies.

 

IP

[Slayer le Boucher]

Nice fluff, something that goes away from the whole silly and ridiculous Skalathrax thing...(yeah Sm can go in outer space with their armors, but they freeze by -100...).

 

Finnaly a army wide rule where WE shine in CC, where their rightfull place is, Like BT's for challenges have.

 

I also have been fantasizing about something to block the gap that we as Khorne disciple has a flaw, and thats Psy powers.

 

I really wish to see somekind of Special Attacks or Martial Traits, a bit like the GK's Brotherhood Champion with his 3 special attacks or like with DE Incubis Klaivex powers.

 

And new options for Rhinos, like Open-topped option or some other vehicle wargear thats permits Assaults.

[daboarder]

well I expect :cuss all for a supplement, their too busy with space marine company variation 356 to worry about something a undivergent as any of the legions.

 

 

I would love however a supplement detailing the deathguard allowing cult support options, but realistically given the black legion it would likely just be the ability to take plague zombies without typhus.

[Sception]

In terms of fluff, I'm hoping that future chaos legion supplements, should we see them, give more insight to how the legions have changed and developed since the heresy, and how they function in the modern 40k setting.  In particular, what portion of their forces are original legion vets, how they replace losses, how they maintain their fleets, how much contact remains between various independent forces of the legion, if the primarch is alive, whether and to what degree he maintains control of the legion, and if not then who the current leaders of the legion or its major splinter groups are, what campaigns they've been up to since the heresy, any particular rivalries or grudges they've developed, whether with other chaos forces or other forces outside of the eye, etc etc.

 

The heresy fluff is great, I love that fluff, and certainly a legion supplement wouldn't be complete without covering it, but at the same time we've got a great series of Black Library novels plus the whole FW Heresy game covering that fluff very well already, so I'd rather any 40k supplements cover more of the post heresy & 40k era fluff and character of these legions, which is somewhat lacking at the moment.

 

 

While I'm excited for more chaos supplements, there are some legions that I'd rather wait a bit longer for, if, as some rumors have indicated, supplements released after all the armies have codeces might be blessed with attendant model releases.  It would be awesome if the cult legions in particular could see release alongside new plastic cult units, and maybe new greater daemons as well, and I wouldn't mind a new plastic helbrute to coincide with the Iron Warriors book.  Night Lords, Alpha Legion, and Word Bearers, though, I think are pretty well covered, model wise, so those legions in particular I'd like to see sooner rather than later.

[Beachymike123]

With regards to any future supplements, what do people hope for their own legions of choice

Pretty much any new background, along with famous battle they taken part in & art work on the Iron Warriors. This general led to me converting up new units for my own Iron Warriors force. Also be great to get some Artefacts, would not mind seen something like the old daemonic Kai Gun.

Also possible allow us the Basilisk tank, just with Forge World release one in the near future for the Horus Heresy armies.

IP

by no less than IP himself. i'd actually say something along the lines of 'liberated' Imperial vehicles, but limit this to 1 per unit with the VotLW upgrade, and upgrades only from C:CSM. i think elements of the Siege Vanguard Assault list from IA:12 is probably the best bet (siege mantlets, siege masters etc) but then i'm biased towards this as i love that list anyway in terms of background i like the fact that at least Perturabo was mentioned as invoking Nurgle to contaminate an industrial world in the new dex, and i know there are various times the legion has been mentioned in fluff (the IW omnibus, Vraks (Steel Brethren), Siege of Castellax etc) but these are just limited to that area/region. i'd love to see how the legion reacts and interacts with others, bargains with the Dark Mechanicus (which is another supplement i'd love to see but i know they're in one of the FW HH books for 30k), etc.

[Sception]

Is the IW basilisk really necessary?  You can already pick it up, along with that fourth heavy slot, by allying with traitor guard, which seems to make sense for IW anyway, particularly since allied guard is arguably the best way to represent dark mech forces at the moment (necrons and tau being the arguable alternatives).

 

I mean, I don't know what an IW supplements rules would include, after the Black Legion book I'm trying hard to view future chaos supplements primarily as fluff vectors, in order to avoid future disappointment.  On the fluff side, though, I would love to get an overview of the current disposition of Iron Warriors forces, maybe a description of the current chain of command back to the primarch, perhaps some more insight into the daemonic nature of Peturabo himself (is he a normal daemon prince?  Is he aligned to a particular god?  Or is he so augmented by daemonotech cybernetics that he has functionally ascended on his own?), and certainly a run down of major Iron Warriors campaigns since the heresy.

[Trevak Dal]

I'd love to see a Night Lords supplement simply because I love the Legion. Plenty of scope for fluff as well:

 

- Curze's upbringing on Nostramo, his crusade against the local crimelords and his eventual coming to rule

- His introduction to the 8th Legion and how they greeted their obviously-troubled father

- The Legions operation under Terran commanders

- The Legions role in the Great Crusade

- Where the atrocities sanctioned by the Emperor as 'the loyal monster', or did Curze take liberties? Was the Emperor really capable of demanding such actions and then publicly shaming them for a job well done?

- Why was Curze sent to Istvaan?

- Their role in the Heresy

- The Thramas Crusade

- Their role in the siege of Terra

- The fallback to Tsagualsa and pillaging in the Eastern Fringes

- The Ultramarines assault against Tsagualsa

- The shattering of the Legion and key figures that rose to command each splinter

- 10,000 years of warfare

- The coming of Decimus and attempts to reforge the Legion

- Their role in the 13th Black Crusade and the invasion of Ulthwé

 

There is also tremendous scope for investigating their philosophies regarding the Gods and dependence upon them, or the loyalty among thieves, the traditions of Sinners Red, what they are fighting for....

 

Ruleswise:

- VotLW no longer confers +1Ld. Instead, it grants Hatred: Loyalists, Night Vision, Fear and Hit & Run. Any Blind Tests suffer a -1 penalty to Initiative however.

- 'Master of Traitors' and 'Master of the Rubricae' are both suspended. All Cult units are restricted to the Elites slot.

- Allies of Convenience with Chaos Space Marines and the Black Legion. Desperate Allies with Daemons. Otherwise, same table as the standard.

 

- Warlord table includes things like forcing Night Fight, your Warlord gaining the effects of a Dirge Caster, or granting Scout to certain units.

- If your Warlord has a Jump Pack, Raptors can be taken as Troops. Yes I know this was arbitrarily invented by 3.5 but like it or not, it's an army trait now.

- Artefacts include Sevatars Chain Glaive (with Teleport Homer!), some swanky Lightning Claws and 'Sinners Red' gauntlets, which need some trait to encourage sacrifice and throwing their lives away. Perhaps a Psyker-only talisman to grant access to Divination, although that one might be stretching it.

 

- Super wishlist mode? Chaos Drop Pods. Just bung em in there.

 

 

Other options include Red Corsairs, who can take Codex: Space Marines as a secondary detachment as Battle Brothers. Any allies chosen this way lose ATSKNF in favour of Champion of Chaos (....). Alternatively, the 'Book of Khorne/Nurgle/Tzeentch/Slaanesh' which work to tie together alliances of Marines and Daemons, offering incentives to roll mono-God in exchange for God-specific Warpstorms and Artefacts to fix some of the inherent weaknesses.

 

 

You could make that argument for most of the undivided/Undecided Legions/warbands though.

[Emperors Immortals]

@Dammeron I would buy that EC supplement straight away.

 

Rules wise, Id like to see WE, like slayer said an improved anti-psyker rule, id give MoK a deny the witch roll of 5+ and bring back the collar of khorne - 3+DtW roll for model and units within 6 inches. Id also like some form of assault vehicle that can carry 10-12 astartes.

[Dammeron]

In terms of fluff, I'm hoping that future chaos legion supplements, should we see them, give more insight to how the legions have changed and developed since the heresy, and how they function in the modern 40k setting.  In particular, what portion of their forces are original legion vets, how they replace losses, how they maintain their fleets, how much contact remains between various independent forces of the legion, if the primarch is alive, whether and to what degree he maintains control of the legion, and if not then who the current leaders of the legion or its major splinter groups are, what campaigns they've been up to since the heresy, any particular rivalries or grudges they've developed, whether with other chaos forces or other forces outside of the eye, etc etc.

 

The heresy fluff is great, I love that fluff, and certainly a legion supplement wouldn't be complete without covering it, but at the same time we've got a great series of Black Library novels plus the whole FW Heresy game covering that fluff very well already, so I'd rather any 40k supplements cover more of the post heresy & 40k era fluff and character of these legions, which is somewhat lacking at the moment.

 

 

While I'm excited for more chaos supplements, there are some legions that I'd rather wait a bit longer for, if, as some rumors have indicated, supplements released after all the armies have codeces might be blessed with attendant model releases.  It would be awesome if the cult legions in particular could see release alongside new plastic cult units, and maybe new greater daemons as well, and I wouldn't mind a new plastic helbrute to coincide with the Iron Warriors book.  Night Lords, Alpha Legion, and Word Bearers, though, I think are pretty well covered, model wise, so those legions in particular I'd like to see sooner rather than later.

 

 

Totally agree: I think that one of the principle purposes of the supplements should be demonstrating just how far removed the legions and the warbands many of them have either splintered into or given birth to are from what they were during the Horus Heresy and its aftermath. The Black Legion codex did this quite spectacularly: Abaddon's Black Legion is all but unrecognisable from Horus's Lunar Wolves/Sons of Horus, save the maintennance of the "speartip" tactic.

 

With regards to the Iron Warriors specfically, I'd love to know a little bit more about what it is they're actually doing: we know that they're waging a kind of war from Medrengard against the Imperium, but how coordinated is it? Do they have any other long term goals? Also, what is life like on Medrengard? We know that it is a daemon world of forges and foundries; that the Iron Warriors fleet is tethered to great towers and bastions that rose impossibly into space from its surface, but that's about it. Also, Perturabo: how does he manifest in his daemonic form and what is he doing? Are there splinter factions of the Iron Warriors to take note of; Grand Companies dedicated to particular gods, sub-cults etc?

 

The same goes for the likes of the Word Bearers: what is life like on Sicarius? I imagine there being Sicarian Choirs: entire companies of psychically attuned or sorcerous Word Bearers whose purpose is to sing and conduct the divine "music" of the Warp across the planet and beyond; the Ascended of the legion flocking amongst great spires and towers, raining revelation upon the constantly worshipping, grovelling masses below. With regards to the Word Bearers specifically, something I'd love to see is mention of the fact that they seem to have won: though they did not succeed in killing the Emperor per se, Lorgar and his sons succeeded in crippling him sufficiently so that his philosophies -that would have proven entirely corrosive to Chaos if allowed to flourish- became warped and twisted into the entirely neurotic, oppressive theocracy of the present day Imperium under which Chaos flourishes. Also, they succeeded in bringing the Gods their most powerful servants and sparking off the ten thousand long year war in which the elements that feed and foment Chaos have swollen beyond all proportion. I'd also love to see a little on the conflicts that must have inevitably occured on Sicarius and amongst the Word Bearers during their ten thousand years of exile: the possibility of schisms and excommunications; holy wars and crusades is extremely enticing.

[Ammonius]

I think that the number one thing I 'd like to see in any future chaos supplements is how exactly the "undivided" legions and primarchs fit into the new paradigm. I say number one, because I too am trying to expect nothing ruleswise so that I am either not disappointed or pleasantly surprised.

 

But yeah, for Iron Warriors, I'd love to see something that improved the ally level between them and IG forces. Personally, I think that either an IW supplement could do that, or something associated with the next version of the IG codex.

[Dammeron]

Another thing that''s always fascinated me is precisely how the post heresy Death Guard function: we know that they ultimately retreated to the Plague Planet prepared for them after The Scouring, during which the daemonic Mortarion lead his warriors in a meryy-dance of destruction across Nurgle knows how many worlds and systems.

 

Then we have a schism: the legion breaking in half, maybe fracturing even further in the process: Mortarion reshaping the Plague Planet to resemble Barbarus, Typhus breaking away with his contingent of the Death Guard who seem to emphasise an entirely different aspect of Nurgle than his primarch: whereas Mortarion seems to emphasise Nurgle in his aspects as the source of conservatism, stagnancy and gregarious sentimentality, Typhus is the more active form: the virulent pandemic; the devouring cancer: never resting whilst there is work to be done in the name of hsi Master.

 

The details of the schism itself could be fascinating: there could be an entire civil war amongst the Death Guard; one that lasts centuries or millennia from their own perspective, given that time in the Eye of Terror is so extremely flexible. We could see different cults and factions emerging, as well as new recruits and devotees eventually reaching the Plague Planet and falling under Mortarion's sway. It would also be fascinating to see a little of how the legion is organised now: unlike the other cult legions, the Death Guard seem to be relatively organised, Mortarion's empire spreading far and wide, his Plague Fleets routinely sojourning out into the material universe before returning to the Plague Planet. Some details as to life on the Plague Planet would be wonderful: we already know that it resembles Barbarus, so can deduce from that that there is a population: likely diseased mutants and beastmen living in the most appalling conditions whilst Mortarion, the Death Guard and their daemonic allies lord over them from on high.