Dreadnoughts: they have their uses

[Axagoras]

vs tau, you have 2 riptides, a salvoside, a hammer head, and some battle suits. all of those can shread a av 12 vehicle without thinking about it. vs eldar a list i played earlier this week (not with dreads) had 2 fire prisims 2 waveserpents and a loltarch w/ fusion gun. the serpents can dish out a ton of s6-7 shots the prisims have a s9 lance and the lol tarch will fly up and melta one. each of those can dismember a dreadnought list.

[hallodx]

The last time I see people fielding AV 12 dreadnoughts was 5th ed, and, well, I see only iron claw and furiso now. Furiso is fine with fragment cannon and whatever wins on it, but iron claw, it can't output decent damage when it arrive from DP, and can be killed by shooting easily.

Maybe DA mantis dread worth taking if opponent accept FW stuff, at least it can hide at backline, shooting ground and air with full BS.

[Azash]

Just a thought since forgeworld is now fair game wouldn't that give dreads new life? A luscious pattern drop pod with an ironclad. You choose to go second insuring you get an assault off.

[Kaedes Nex]

Lucius pods got nerfed, you can't assault from the turn they arrive anymore. You can choose not to disembark and just sit in them for a turn though.

[infornography]

I may be wrong here but, I'm pretty sure any drop pod that can be called "luscious pattern" should be restricted to pretty marines and Slaneshii armies. ;-)

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Just a thought since forgeworld is now fair game wouldn't that give dreads new life?

 

Lucius-pattern nerfage aside, the other FW argument for Dreadnoughts is the Contemptor. . . which really isn't a Dreadnought.  It's an AV13 walker, sure, but it has a built-in Invulnerable save and has weapon options that are above and beyond what a regular Dreadnought can take in terms of usefulness and lethality.  I would hands down take a Contemptor, without a second thought. . . if, you know, I could afford one.

[infornography]

Contemptor Mortis is without a doubt competitive.

 

It is a solid option to replace an anti-air piece (I like to have a minimum of two on the field but one is usually a quad gun ADL)

 

The contemptor mortis, with nearly any of it's various weapons loadouts (plasma cannons are a nope due to lack of ability to target flyers) is one of the best units we have access to in my opinion. 

 

Though they are, QUITE, expensive.  Pointswise and moneywise.  They nearly cost like a land raider when fully equipped, but with interceptor and skyfire when standing still and a built in invuln save, they are VERY capable of making their presence felt on the battlefield.

[Azash]

Yeah that is an idiotic and non intuitive rule change/Nerf.

 

Though you could just run a normal dread with am LC stay embarked and blast away. 50 pts to drop in a good firing position and effectively give your dread 3 mor hps. Could be deadly especially with ironhands ct.

[Axagoras]

Contemptors are actually a solid choice but with the mortis losing bs 5 and staying the same cost is a joke... tbh the heresy ones are amazing with bs 5 and in the low hundreds for a good loadout

[Brother Milner]

The other night at the club a player using the Iron Hands CT played with 6 dreads( all in drop pods) against Dark Angels.

The DA where Termie heavy and by turn two the DA where whipped out.

 

I did not follow the game but the DA player only killed 1 dread and a troop choice...

 

That tells me that dreads played in the right hands is still pretty good.

[knife&fork]

Termie heavy DA is not good DA... ;)

I don't think AV12 dreads are completely dead. At least I get some mileage out of my death company dreads with talons. 6 attacks with WS5 rerolling wound and generating new attacks is really nice, plus I get to fill out my crappy troop slots.

Just have to bring it in late game when there's less stuff on the board that can one shot it. Really one of those units that can't be ignored, and when you manage to cast prescience on one it's just filthy good

Totally agree though that they missed some great opportunities in the new marine 'dex. I was hoping for a serious points reduction or better some cool special rules to make them more like the DoW games.

As it stands I think only the frag cannon dread and DC dread are priced well. Every other marine walker is overpriced by at least 20 points and pays way too much for upgrades. TLLC with heavy flamer is such a nice multi-tool, but I can't justify them in my lists when they cost more than a dev squad.

[Captain Idaho]

If I'm honest, all Dreads should have been increased to AV13 on the front, with Ironclads staying the same (as AV14 is perhaps too much to ask for a Walker).

[Gentlemanloser]

 

The other night at the club a player using the Iron Hands CT played with 6 dreads( all in drop pods) against Dark Angels.

The DA where Termie heavy and by turn two the DA where whipped out.

 

It Will Not Die aside, that's Three dreads first turn, who are only able to shoot.

 

And by the second turn (go go rolling reserves!) the DA were wiped out?

 

o_O

 

I suppose the IH player could have gone for 12 Pods in total, to drop 6 Dreads first turn.  What kind of points level were they playing?

[hallodx]

Not impossible if DA deployed his termies on table, all tactical ones, got shot and charged dreads, unluckily no hit for chain fist ones, smashed one by one and wiped out at game turn 2... Lol

[Gentlemanloser]

With Deathwing Assault, why would you deploy your Termies on the table?

 

I think there were other factors to that game, rather than the potency of Dreads.

[hallodx]

Oh it's just a joke. That's a possibility, right? lol

[Captain Idaho]

You know, it's entirely possible there were other things in the bloke's army other than Dreads in Pods...

[Lord Mammenchus]

Brining the post back from the verge of a tangent....

 

I'm a DA player and I love my dreads but like everyone has said, they die too quick from s6 saturation.

 

What I have had a lot of mileage out of in a few recent games is running a tlac dread back field with a typical DA unit - devs with pfg librarian.

 

The pfg extends a few inches so can benefit the dread if he hugs the dev squad. 4++ massively increases the dreads survive ability. He kills thing with his quad gun, dev/librarian do their normal thing. It's been good times

[knife&fork]

Brining the post back from the verge of a tangent....

 

I'm a DA player and I love my dreads but like everyone has said, they die too quick from s6 saturation.

 

What I have had a lot of mileage out of in a few recent games is running a tlac dread back field with a typical DA unit - devs with pfg librarian.

 

The pfg extends a few inches so can benefit the dread if he hugs the dev squad. 4++ massively increases the dreads survive ability. He kills thing with his quad gun, dev/librarian do their normal thing. It's been good times

 

How about a techmarine, can he take a pfg too? Repairs and a 4++ could really help with all this S6-7 shooting.

[Xenith]

I think there is still some potential. 

 

IH chapter tactics takes the edge off the 3HP, although is not ideal, along with the rough decrease in melta/grav popping up.

 

My Omega Marines (IH tactics) are going to be 5-6 dreads at 1500pts, with support. The games should be fun, if anything.

 

I think the best way to run AV12 dreads is as fire support, blockers and counter charge for a gunline army/moving up with scoring elements.

[Lysere]

I ran two dreads today, one Ironclad hitching a ride in a storm raven to deal with heavy enemy armor when I switched to hover mode, and a standard dread with heavy flamer and twin linked las-cannon. Turn two the las cannon shot immobilized the land raider redeemer my opponent had and then got stuck fighting some Legion of the Damned. It a few turns to lose to the power fist but in the end I killed the two threatening weapons in the squad and tied them up for a few turns.

[Scout Mentor]

I have a few points not yet mentioned before regarding dreadnaughts.

 

In my drop pod army I run two dreadnaughts, a standard MM/HF Dread in a Drop Pod, and a Rifleman Dread in a Drop Pod.  There are other synergies in the list; to highlight a few 

 

1.  Dreads have spotlights.  This clears up night fighting issues if you are running a gunline or other long range shooty style army list.  Drop in the dread get your melta shot or flamer shot off and then turn on your spotlight.  Now other units shooting at that unit do not need to woryy about night fighting.

 

2.  Rifleman dreads can still be used against monsterous creatures and vehiles but also flyers.  True they are not the best anti-air option but it does add to the units flexability.

 

SM

[Frogstar168]

Just to share, I played a 2000vp game against my buddies' tyranids yesterday. My standard rifleman (backed up by a MotF) gunned down 3 hive guard in cover (took 3 turns to do it) and then got taken apart by an iron arm'd hive tyrant. My Ironclad in drop pod put some wounds on a different hive guard unit and got taken apart by a different hive tyrant (this one with warp speed). My standard dread with MM & HF moved up to assist taking an objective, couldn't hit/wound a thing (opponent's army was mostly big bugs and hive guard) and eventually died to the warp speed tyrant.

 

I probably did not run them well. It was my first game with the new SM codex and first game in a while, too. I was impressed with the rifleman's firepower and the ironclad AV13 shrugged off some of the tyrant's Smash hits, but not enough. I think I would like to change out the MM for a different gun, maybe the TLLC.

[Collective Consciousness]

Are bookend and paperweight viable options?Obviously I jest and I do take my AV12 Dreadnought when I use stationary lists, so it's good to see someone else if having success.

No, they are a nice plastic model with decent rules the real paperweight is the Penitent Engine.