Stalker or Hunter vs a AV12 flier

[Ming]

http://defendersofcalth.blogspot.com/2013/10/ultramarines-roll-out-new-tech-much-to.html

 

Just a fun post on my blog.  Have you had any success in a game with your Hunter or Stalker yet?

 

 

[Ishagu]

Hard to gauge the unit in an isolated battle like this...

[tdemayo]

Interesting. My theoryhammer says to prefer the stalker for AV 11 and the Hunter for AV 12. The Hunter is going for Penetrating hits. It's very likely to get one, but is dependant on getting a good random chart result to destroy the target. The Stalker is aiming to remive Hull Points. It has more shots, and can get multiple hits a turn. At 5+ to glance, it is going to struggle to hurt AV 12 reliably.

[corlinjewell]

They could've at least given the Hunter AP 1 to basically ensure you are gonna do damage.  Something tells me an AA missile of considerable size is going to do more than just shake the crew up a little.  I personally think I will stick to the Quad-Gun on the Aegis Defense Line as it has interceptor and its great to see a flier get shot down the turn it comes in BEFORE it even gets to shoot at everything.

[Ming]

I agree. The fact that the Stalker/Hunter does not have intercept is the primary issue, with the Vendetta being able to get killing blows quicker. On the other hand, if you went point for point (say 2 stalkers vs a Vendetta) then double stalkers would win. Same is likely if you added a Stalker to a list that already has an Aegis defense line, which is where I'd probably lean towards. After all in comparison -

 

Stalker - AV12, 3 HPs, BS4, 4 twin linked skyfire shots (S7 AP4)

Vendetta - AV12, 3 HPs, BS3, 3 twin linked lascannon shots (S9 AP2)

 

As a design note - I bet that they originally tested the Stalker at 6 twin linked shots (reason for the tri-barrel) and the testers decided it was "too deadly", so cut it back to 4. If this had been a Forgeworld product I bet they'd have kept the 6 shots, made it front armor 13, and pushed it out for 115 points...

 

As for the Hunter, cool concept, the issue in the short run of tests was that for some reason it kept (unluckily) getting the launcher blown off (maybe its because mine is painted red and creates a nice easy target for the Vendetta Pilots!). When it did fire, I was (un)lucky enough to have the missile impact when fired rather than miss and reacquire to hit the following turn. So again, you had the S7 AP2 missile impact the fron AV12, rather than the rear AV10.

 

Tactically, I'm wondering one issue - vs Flying Monstrous Creatures, does the savant lock of the Hunter's missile system keep after the FMC even if in-between launching and impacting the following turn the FMC becomes grounded?

[Lysere]

I agree. The fact that the Stalker/Hunter does not have intercept is the primary issue, with the Vendetta being able to get killing blows quicker. On the other hand, if you went point for point (say 2 stalkers vs a Vendetta) then double stalkers would win. Same is likely if you added a Stalker to a list that already has an Aegis defense line, which is where I'd probably lean towards. After all in comparison -

 

Stalker - AV12, 3 HPs, BS4, 4 twin linked skyfire shots (S7 AP4)

Vendetta - AV12, 3 HPs, BS3, 3 twin linked lascannon shots (S9 AP2)

 

As a design note - I bet that they originally tested the Stalker at 6 twin linked shots (reason for the tri-barrel) and the testers decided it was "too deadly", so cut it back to 4. If this had been a Forgeworld product I bet they'd have kept the 6 shots, made it front armor 13, and pushed it out for 115 points...

 

As for the Hunter, cool concept, the issue in the short run of tests was that for some reason it kept (unluckily) getting the launcher blown off (maybe its because mine is painted red and creates a nice easy target for the Vendetta Pilots!). When it did fire, I was (un)lucky enough to have the missile impact when fired rather than miss and reacquire to hit the following turn. So again, you had the S7 AP2 missile impact the fron AV12, rather than the rear AV10.

 

Tactically, I'm wondering one issue - vs Flying Monstrous Creatures, does the savant lock of the Hunter's missile system keep after the FMC even if in-between launching and impacting the following turn the FMC becomes grounded?

 

Don't forget your rolling 2d6 to pen armor with the Hunter. It is armorbane after all. Also consider sticking a cheap storm bolter on there to at least cut down the odds of blowing off the cannon by a bit.

[Ming]

Yep, that became apparent as a need for both variants. If the weapon system on either is destroyed, the vehicles have no backup use.

 

And the 2 D6 is important...my issue was in some cases not being able to fire before the weapon system was destroyed.

 

Overall, I wanted the info, not from the standpoint of the Vendetta, but for the Vendetta's evil chaos AV12, 5++ Helldrake "it will not die" brother. At least vs that flyer, the odds are much better for surviving long enough and doing damage.

[corlinjewell]

While it does struggle against AV12, I think that in a competitive scenario in which you don't know who you are fighting, you have to take the Stalker over the Hunter (If you're going to take one or the other that is).  The Hunter is basically useless against flying monstrous creatures because it only has one Str7 shot per turn.  If it automatically grounded the flyer, then it would be a different story, but with FMC, you want volume of fire.  This is coupled by the fact that the Stalker CAN have an effect on armored flyers and isn't completely useless against ground targets (like the Hunter is).