Uaronain Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Hello everyone, due to work and having to move across the country I was not able to work on my guard allies much and in the meantime the space marines changed. As the force I am working on is a iron Hands sucessor chapter I wanted some good ol ad mech allies... that count as IG. My main issue is lack of experence with IG in any form... not many around here play as them so I am kind of winging it here. I tried to post this in the space marines army list review but didnt get back any feedback so I am hoping a IG player has some sage advice! Here is my sample list so far. I dont know if I used my points in a cost effective manner (845 IG pts) or if the list has enough firepower or balance. Some notes, all squads are in a transport, 3 chimeras and one in the vendetta. Marbo is included as well as 2 podded ironclads to put pressure on the enemy when needed. +++ SMIG (1995pts) +++ +++ 2000pt Imperial Guard 5th Ed by TC, Space Marines w/ Black Templar 6th Ed (2013) (FW) Roster (Allied Detachment, Primary Detachment)) +++ Selections: Imperial Guard 5th Ed by TC (Allied Detachment) Selections: + HQ + (195pts) * Company Command Squad (195pts) Astropath (30pts), Lascannon (20pts), Meltagun (10pts), Officer of the Fleet (30pts) * Chimera (55pts) Heavy Bolter, Multi-laser * Company Commander Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol + Elites + (65pts) * Guardsman Marbo (65pts) + Troops + (300pts) * Infantry Platoon (300pts) * Infantry Squad (50pts) * Sergeant Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol * Infantry Squad (135pts) Lascannon (20pts), Meltagun (10pts) * Chimera (55pts) Heavy Bolter, Multi-laser * Sergeant Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol * Platoon Command Squad (115pts) Lascannon (20pts), Meltagun (10pts) * Chimera (55pts) Heavy Bolter, Multi-laser * Platoon Commander Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol + Fast Attack + (130pts) * Vendetta Gunship Squadron (130pts) * Vendetta (130pts) 2 Twin-linked Lascannons + Heavy Support + (150pts) * Leman Russ Squadron (150pts) * Leman Russ (150pts) Heavy Bolter Space Marines w/ Black Templar 6th Ed (2013) (FW) (Primary Detachment) Selections: + (No Category) + * Chapter Tactics Iron Hands + HQ + (110pts) * Master of the Forge (110pts) (And They Shall Know no Fear, Blessing of the Omnissiah, Bolster Defenses, Chapter Tactics, Independent Character) Bolt pistol, Bolter, Replace servo-harness + bolter with a Conversion Beamer (20pts) + Elites + (460pts) * Dreadnought (120pts) Twin Linked Autocannon (15pts), Twin-Linked Autocannon (5pts) * Ironclad Dreadnought (170pts) (Move Through Cover) * Dreadnaught Power Fist Storm Bolter * Drop Pod (35pts) Storm Bolter * Seismic Hammer Meltagun * Ironclad Dreadnought (170pts) (Move Through Cover) * Dreadnaught Power Fist Storm Bolter * Drop Pod (35pts) Storm Bolter * Seismic Hammer Meltagun + Troops + (140pts) * Tactical Squad (70pts) (And They Shall Know no Fear, Chapter Tactics, Combat Squads) 4x Space Marine (56pts) * Space Marine Sergeant (14pts) Bolt pistol, Chainsword * Tactical Squad (70pts) (And They Shall Know no Fear, Chapter Tactics, Combat Squads) 4x Space Marine (56pts) * Space Marine Sergeant (14pts) Bolt pistol, Chainsword + Fast Attack + (125pts) * Stormtalon Gunship (125pts) (Aerial Assault, Escort Craft, Hover Strike, Supersonic) Skyhammer Missile Launcher (15pts), Twin-Linked Assault Cannon + Heavy Support + (320pts) * Predator (95pts) Autocannon, Heavy Bolters (20pts) * Thunderfire Cannon (100pts) (And They Shall Know no Fear, Blessing of the Omnissiah, Bolster Defenses, Chapter Tactics) * Vindicator (125pts) Created with BattleScribe Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282636-back-again-with-questions-about-ig-as-allies/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 what is the main purpose of the allied guardsmen? overall i feel you're a bit light on troop choices in the space marine section. remember that most games in 6th edition will be won based upon grabbing objectives! personally i would use the guardsmen to hold my own objectives, backed up by some space marine units while still having some space marine squads send forward to grab/contest my opponents objectives. list wise you could drop the vindicator and upgrade the normal leman russ into a leman russ demolisher. i think the AV 14 upgrade and demolisher turret are worth the drop in BS what sort of armies are you facing? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282636-back-again-with-questions-about-ig-as-allies/#findComment-3509400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I agree with hendrik, some more Marines would be better as well as giving them an upgrade so they can be more useful. Since you're in the Guard section though we should be concentrating on your allied force and your Infantry squads look a bit of a mishmash. Why not spread the toys out across the squads? A Lascannon squad can sit back and freem where a mounted Chimera squad can deliver that melta into range. Better still would be to focus on what Guard are good at and that is weight of fire - leave the specialist weaponry to the accurate and durable Marines. Have you thought about some Heavy Weapons Squads? They can throw a lot of fire power around for a fair cost, especially Mortars. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282636-back-again-with-questions-about-ig-as-allies/#findComment-3509437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I like that you have an infantry squad set aside for the Vendetta. That has helped me win more than one game. My only contention is that it needs a flamer. It's only 5 pts but it basically doubles your firepower should the squad need to get out and contribute more than just standing around. I also wouldn't put lascannons, which are long range, with meltaguns, which are not. It means you're spending a lot of points on weapons that will likely only get to fire when the other isn't. Consider giving the IG only one of the two (whichever range you want them to be in: long or short) and spend the points giving your Iron Hands something to do beside looking cool. Finally, do whatever you must to get a third drop pod. Having both dreads come down turn 1 will be essential to putting high pressure on your enemies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282636-back-again-with-questions-about-ig-as-allies/#findComment-3509574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uaronain Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 Hendrik, I guess I did't really put a ton of thought into what purpose the IG plays in the army as my main reason to use them was fluff for my DIY chapter. I have a total of 20 space marines I can use so I will tinker with my list to see what I need to do to get to more scoring units. I might need to drop the talon to gain more foot troops. if I do that do you recomend footslogging or removing more firepower for transportation? Also you think 1 demolisher is better tan a standard russ + a vindi? Warriorfish, I do think you are correct as I can do the first rank fire! for the IG and put the special weapons on the tacticals. I guess the question becomes what weapons to use with the marines? I have always liked plasma and melta but I see a lot of missle launchers out there now also. librisrouge, I will add the flamers for all of thr squads but remove the las/melta and leave that for the SM; I will also add a drop pod for the rifleman dred. Ok so what do you all think about this... I drop the storm talon, bring my SM tacticals up to 20 total. Add a drop pod for the rifleman dred so the ironclads can arrive first turn. I can upgrade the russ into a demolisher and keep the vindi (or do you suggest a different heavy support choice like devestators? That leaves me with 25 points to gear the tacticals... not enough points... any other suggestions about trimming the list and what gear choices I should look into for the tacticals? If i take the vindi out that leaves me with 150 points to gear the tacticals and possible grab a heavy weapons team like mortars.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282636-back-again-with-questions-about-ig-as-allies/#findComment-3509617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Sounds like a good plan, more Tacs gives them resilience which is what they're good at. A Demolisher is tougher and can have a hull mounted flamer but is also more expensive than a Vindicator, so it depends on what you want to do. Both Battle and Demolisher Cannon will be dangerous to friendlies as well so keep that in mind when scheming what you want your Marines to be doing. I'm not sure if Missile Launchers are in vogue any more, given that they're no longer free which was the main appeal. Maybe a Plasma or perhaps Plasma Cannon? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282636-back-again-with-questions-about-ig-as-allies/#findComment-3509699 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argun Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Speaking as one of the resident IG artillery supporters, why not drop the thunderfire, vindicator, and Russ in favor of a squadron of colossi, medusae, or basilisks? First= MEQ death (no cover, AP3) second= S10, AP2 (makes anyone's day hurt bad) third=MEQ killer, go-to tank for normal artillery Just keep those in the back, and laugh as your enemies just disappear from behind their ageis lines! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282636-back-again-with-questions-about-ig-as-allies/#findComment-3509718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uaronain Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 Speaking as one of the resident IG artillery supporters, why not drop the thunderfire, vindicator, and Russ in favor of a squadron of colossi, medusae, or basilisks? First= MEQ death (no cover, AP3) second= S10, AP2 (makes anyone's day hurt bad) third=MEQ killer, go-to tank for normal artillery Just keep those in the back, and laugh as your enemies just disappear from behind their ageis lines! The main allure of Iron Hands tanks is that they all have the It wont die! Rule... so the pred and vindi can regenerate hull points on their own. I can drop the russ and grab a Medusa or colossi though. The updated list so far. Added cheap flamers to every guard squad, added some artillery. (keeping the tfire because of the techmarine gunner can repair) Vindi stays and demolisher goes because of points and iron hand tanks regenerate. One tac squad has multi-melta and a melta gun while the other has a plasma cannon and a flamer... I know the last 2 dont synergize very well. I can replace it with a grav gun, plasma gun but then I would just take some flamers from the IG guys. +++ SMIG (2000pts) +++ +++ 2000pt Imperial Guard 5th Ed by TC, Space Marines w/ Black Templar 6th Ed (2013) (FW) Roster (Allied Detachment, Primary Detachment)) +++ Selections: Imperial Guard 5th Ed by TC (Allied Detachment) Selections: + HQ + (170pts) * Company Command Squad (170pts) Astropath (30pts), Flamer (5pts), Officer of the Fleet (30pts) * Chimera (55pts) Heavy Bolter, Multi-laser * Company Commander Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol + Elites + (65pts) * Guardsman Marbo (65pts) + Troops + (255pts) * Infantry Platoon (255pts) * Infantry Squad (55pts) Flamer (5pts) * Sergeant Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol * Infantry Squad (110pts) Flamer (5pts) * Chimera (55pts) Heavy Bolter, Multi-laser * Sergeant Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol * Platoon Command Squad (90pts) Flamer (5pts) * Chimera (55pts) Heavy Bolter, Multi-laser * Platoon Commander Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol + Fast Attack + (130pts) * Vendetta Gunship Squadron (130pts) * Vendetta (130pts) 2 Twin-linked Lascannons + Heavy Support + (135pts) * Ordnance Battery (135pts) * Medusa (135pts) Heavy Bolter Space Marines w/ Black Templar 6th Ed (2013) (FW) (Primary Detachment) Selections: + (No Category) + * Chapter Tactics Iron Hands + HQ + (110pts) * Master of the Forge (110pts) (And They Shall Know no Fear, Blessing of the Omnissiah, Bolster Defenses, Chapter Tactics, Independent Character) Bolt pistol, Bolter, Replace servo-harness + bolter with a Conversion Beamer (20pts) + Elites + (495pts) * Dreadnought (155pts) Twin Linked Autocannon (15pts), Twin-Linked Autocannon (5pts) * Drop Pod (35pts) Storm Bolter * Ironclad Dreadnought (170pts) (Move Through Cover) * Dreadnaught Power Fist Storm Bolter * Drop Pod (35pts) Storm Bolter * Seismic Hammer Meltagun * Ironclad Dreadnought (170pts) (Move Through Cover) * Dreadnaught Power Fist Storm Bolter * Drop Pod (35pts) Storm Bolter * Seismic Hammer Meltagun + Troops + (320pts) * Tactical Squad (160pts) (And They Shall Know no Fear, Chapter Tactics, Combat Squads) Flamer (5pts), Plasma Cannon (15pts), 9x Space Marine (126pts) * Space Marine Sergeant (14pts) Bolt pistol, Chainsword * Tactical Squad (160pts) (And They Shall Know no Fear, Chapter Tactics, Combat Squads) Meltagun (10pts), Multi-Melta (10pts), 9x Space Marine (126pts) * Space Marine Sergeant (14pts) Bolt pistol, Chainsword + Heavy Support + (320pts) * Predator (95pts) Autocannon, Heavy Bolters (20pts) * Thunderfire Cannon (100pts) (And They Shall Know no Fear, Blessing of the Omnissiah, Bolster Defenses, Chapter Tactics) * Vindicator (125pts) Created with BattleScribe Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282636-back-again-with-questions-about-ig-as-allies/#findComment-3509731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Much better imo. The Space Marines look like they want to do something and every unit fulfills some kinda purpose. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282636-back-again-with-questions-about-ig-as-allies/#findComment-3509925 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Agreed, though I'd probably drop Marbo for more points to play with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282636-back-again-with-questions-about-ig-as-allies/#findComment-3510315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uaronain Posted November 1, 2013 Author Share Posted November 1, 2013 He really is not that bad for 65pts and can cause havock if the dice gods are in your favor. if I removed him I would do it to find a way to add more heavy firepower. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282636-back-again-with-questions-about-ig-as-allies/#findComment-3510491 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Take him out and that's a Mortar Squad with some points to spare ;) I just think that for an allied force you'd be better off focusing on what Guard are good at, but he can certainly be a lot of fun and as you say not bad if the dice gods smile on you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282636-back-again-with-questions-about-ig-as-allies/#findComment-3510627 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uaronain Posted November 1, 2013 Author Share Posted November 1, 2013 How does everyone feel about the astropath and Officer of the fleet? If I remove both of them and marbo that is an extra big gun of art to add to the single medusa i already have. As i have never used the astropath or officer I dont know how important the reserve rolls would be in game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282636-back-again-with-questions-about-ig-as-allies/#findComment-3510693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argun Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 IIRC, they've FAQ'd the rules regarding things like those guys. the modifiers to reserves (astropath) only works on the IG detatchment. Fleet guy is great for making opponent stay the heck away from the board. just had another look at that list, and it says the vendetta has 2 TL-lascannons. It's supposed to have 3 Question is: do you want 3 infantry models (one who has a 1 time use bomb, probably will die once used) or one more tank (that has 12" more range than that vindicator and basically same gun)? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282636-back-again-with-questions-about-ig-as-allies/#findComment-3510834 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uaronain Posted November 1, 2013 Author Share Posted November 1, 2013 IIRC, they've FAQ'd the rules regarding things like those guys. the modifiers to reserves (astropath) only works on the IG detatchment. Fleet guy is great for making opponent stay the heck away from the board. just had another look at that list, and it says the vendetta has 2 TL-lascannons. It's supposed to have 3 Question is: do you want 3 infantry models (one who has a 1 time use bomb, probably will die once used) or one more tank (that has 12" more range than that vindicator and basically same gun)? I just looked at the faq: and you are correct so no need for the astropath. 30pts right there I just noticed it says 2 twin linked as well and not 3, that is the battlescribe script i am using. thank you for your input brother i will look into another tank/art Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282636-back-again-with-questions-about-ig-as-allies/#findComment-3510996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Personally I would use those points to strengthen the iron hands detachment by a third droppodding . Unit,perhaps a squad so you can grab some objective with it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282636-back-again-with-questions-about-ig-as-allies/#findComment-3511031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uaronain Posted November 2, 2013 Author Share Posted November 2, 2013 Personally I would use those points to strengthen the iron hands detachment by a third droppodding . Unit,perhaps a squad so you can grab some objective with it? I have 3 dreds in drop pods, a guard squad in a vendetta just for late game objective grabbing. 3 other guard groups are in chimeras being backed by 2 full iron hand squads, a dakka pred, vindy, Medusa and a tfire and the motf with a conversion beamer. By taking out marbo, some IG gear and the astropath I have 90 points to play with if i just upgrade the ironclads to lose the storm bolter and gain a heavy flamer each) otherwise it is 110 points. There could be even more points being made avilable if I chose a different IG HQ... right now I have the company command squad 50pts, +30 for officer of the fleet +55 for the chimera. For a total of 135 points. I just dont see the allure of mortar squads and a strength 4 ap 6 weapon. So... is the command squad with the officer of the fleet that important? If not I can grab a Lord Commisar or a Primaris Psyker for just 70 and attach iit to something and have 155 points to play with. Which would add another medusa (2 total) to the army. Or.... pod both tacs for 5 pods total and add a griffon to the medusa... or switch it to a colossus and use the griffon for a spotter... Or for fluff reasons alone put the tacs in pods and add a techmarine with a full servo harness so I have another techmarine handy on the other side of the board to help fix dreds or fight with the tac. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282636-back-again-with-questions-about-ig-as-allies/#findComment-3511083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 don't drop the company command squad, but perha^ps do drop the officer of the fleet and add in a lascannon? You should also transfer the droppod of your normal dreadnought to one of your tactical squads. it makes no sense to droppod a quadruple autocannondread which has an effective 48" working range whereas your tacticals only excel at 24". heavy weapon wise i'dd then go for a multi melta is that is still a free upgrade? sure you miss out 2 bolter shots in the turn when you come down but from then onwards it's a massive threat to any armour nearby! by dropping the chimeras you aso get another 110 pts that can be used to mobilise your marines/get more marines Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282636-back-again-with-questions-about-ig-as-allies/#findComment-3511297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veteran Sergeant Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 The only thing better than 1 Vendetta is 2. I think you have things in your list that would be better served being replaced by a second Vendetta in that squadron. And then you've got real insurance that whatever your vendettas are targetting, is probably going to die. And that's important for going up against some of the peskier fliers and other chee- I mean heavier units in the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282636-back-again-with-questions-about-ig-as-allies/#findComment-3525754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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