Grim Dog Studios Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 I want to start a small force of Alpha Legion to muck about with whilst making my Wolves, as there is only so much grey you can paint before getting bored. So, what I'm really asking is would Alpha Legion use armour that maybe had a bit more "bling" on it when they are out on the battlefield as they are still astartes. I was thinking stuff like helmet crests for sergeants, a few eagles across the chest like the MK IV command guys, or those leather straps you see on the MK IV command guys between their legs. I picture most of the troops looking quite plain, which suits me fine as I like the idea of a mostly uniform force, but I just wanted something a bit different on the higher ranked marines. Obviously nothing too wacky, or inefficient like large cloaks etc, but I feel like they still need to look recognisable enough to show they are the leaders, but at the same time nothing that screams "I'M THE BOSS, SHOOT ME", not like that would affect the Alpha Legion much anyway. Any input would be gladly appreciated! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282738-alpha-legion-and-bling/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kais Klip Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 When it comes to Alpha Legion on the battlefield, especially such a battlefield liked Istvaan V or another "propa fight", I like to sum up the legion's battlefield look with the phrase "Go loud". Guitar riffs notwithstanding, there is a large difference between the legionnaires on covert ops and their personalities on a "loud" battlefield, which is where I would assume the arrogant side of the legion's psyche would shine through, not too dissimilar from their III legion cousins. The Alpha Legion, perhaps more so than any other legion, will still want their opponents to know who claims their lives, and that despite what the assumption is, be it a Thousand Son or a legionnaire, an Astartes is a blunt, mass warfare killing machine first and foremost, and scholar/spy last. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282738-alpha-legion-and-bling/#findComment-3511394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 I would beg to differ on this one as ornamentation smacks of hubris and leads to vulnerability, which I don't think is their style at all. Pragmatism would encourage distinguishing features to aid command and control, but I believe they would be subtle. The Alphas would be particularly alive to the fact that others legions will also be focusing on high pay off targets, and won't want to make it easy. Moreover, deception is in the DNA - literally in this case ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282738-alpha-legion-and-bling/#findComment-3511537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Dog Studios Posted November 2, 2013 Author Share Posted November 2, 2013 Cheers for the replies! I was hoping to model my praetor off one of these models minus the helmet crest and cloak. http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/xlarge/mkIVcom11.jpg Do you think the eagle would be too much? It's mainly the leather straps I'm wanting really. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282738-alpha-legion-and-bling/#findComment-3511545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Sangha Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Well the Alpha Legion also originally operated like the Desert Fox from world war 2 in the sense that leadership and initiative were the most sought after traits that were required of a legionary. Alpharius used to be known for not communicating with command structures during combat situations too assess their ability to lead their units without him. And the hydra motif also symbolizes the fact that if one command figure falls he is replaced by a second immediately. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282738-alpha-legion-and-bling/#findComment-3511569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kais Klip Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 I would beg to differ on this one as ornamentation smacks of hubris and leads to vulnerability, which I don't think is their style at all. Pragmatism would encourage distinguishing features to aid command and control, but I believe they would be subtle. The Alphas would be particularly alive to the fact that others legions will also be focusing on high pay off targets, and won't want to make it easy. Moreover, deception is in the DNA - literally in this case ;) Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying AL would do a full march salute any time a CO pops his head out of the rhino catch, they definitely would not, atleast not in his direction. My point and only point, is that an alpha legionnaire would be just as proud of displaying his legion heraldry as any Sons of Horus. I would also wager personal, and of not then definitely squad or company honours would also be present, despite the lack of official recognition towards covert initiatives. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282738-alpha-legion-and-bling/#findComment-3511575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 There is nothing that says that the guy with the crest is actually incharge... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282738-alpha-legion-and-bling/#findComment-3511705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 I think what it comes down to is that we are seeing the specialized specialized of the Legion. I don't know what happens in Scars, but for the most part, we haven't really seen a true "rank-and-file" army detachment, or one that is full view and not operating behind the shadows. We know in The First Heretic they fought alongside the Night Lords with warmachines of unknown designation, but no description is given. And in Galaxy in Flames I believe, Alpharius is described as wearing quite a bit of serpent-imagery. There is every potential that one of the less "shadowy" Legion detachments will actually have some sort of "bling". They have to keep up appearances after all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282738-alpha-legion-and-bling/#findComment-3511711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScionsofLight Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Having burned the TraitorPrimarch's body on a great pyre, Guilliman led his Legion against the remnantsof the Alpha Legion on Eskrador, only to discover that far from collapsing, theXX Legion was mounting a series of cunning and often devastating counter-strikes.The Alpha Legion responded not by breaking and fleeing as Guilliman hadexpected after the death of their Primarch, but by turning on the pursuingUltramarines detachment and harrying them so mercilessly that by the time theyhad returned to the main body of the Ultramarines force their casualties werealmost total. After days of bitter fighting, Guiliman gave up hope of anhonourable victory and departed Eskrador, ordering a massive orbitalbombardment to finish the XX Legion's survivors off. Some Imperial savants haveclaimed that the entire battle was some grand ploy unleashed by the AlphaLegion, though to what end none can say. Certainly, the Alpha Legion fought inthe manner of the mythical beast that adorns their armour -- the hydra -- for eachtime one head was cut off, another moved in to replace it. From their IA AL is also the only legion that had no problem changing their look to confuse their foe; ie: looking like a UM supply convoy to get inside a base. So i say no to decorations for officers but that is my 2cents Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282738-alpha-legion-and-bling/#findComment-3511720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Eskrador was after the Heresy though................. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282738-alpha-legion-and-bling/#findComment-3511729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Wait...so the Ultramarines nuked the site from orbit because it was the only way to make sure? Meaning the Alphas suffered 100% losses of the ground assets they committed to Eskrador? SPIRITUAL LIEGED IN YOUR OWN IA, SNAKES! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282738-alpha-legion-and-bling/#findComment-3511754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 I picture pre-heresy alphas as much more uniform with something akin to modern day rank insignia denoting billet. I would literally model every single one like a trooper of the line and then freehand some small icon somewhere on the model to show the rank they held. The Alpha Legion are the most level-headed and practical of all the Astartes, it's not about fear, it's not about intimidation, or glory, or status. The Alpha Legion is all about results. period. Their war-gear and decorum should reflect this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282738-alpha-legion-and-bling/#findComment-3511776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 What exactly is "level headed" and "practical" about leaving allied units and your own superior officers completely in the dark about key opetational details? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282738-alpha-legion-and-bling/#findComment-3511793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Eskrador was after the Heresy though................. Wait...so the Ultramarines nuked the site from orbit because it was the only way to make sure? Meaning the Alphas suffered 100% losses of the ground assets they committed to Eskrador? SPIRITUAL LIEGED IN YOUR OWN IA, SNAKES! Eskrador also never happened, or if it did, it was an Alpha Legion vs. Alpha Legion (Alpharius vs. Omegon) engagement. If you read the rest of the IA, you'll notice that the Ultramarines have never admitted that they fought on Eskrador (and why would you not claim a Primarch kill?), and the Inquisitor who "discovered" that information is possibly an Alpha Legion plant anyway. As for the bling, I'd suggest keeping it subtle. Cloaks and crests are too obvious, but a little extra decoration on the armor wouldn't be amiss. The fancy draconic stuff like Alpharius' description from TFH is probably just for ceremonial purposes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282738-alpha-legion-and-bling/#findComment-3511796 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 What exactly is "level headed" and "practical" about leaving allied units and your own superior officers completely in the dark about key opetational details? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Loose_lips_might_sink_ships.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282738-alpha-legion-and-bling/#findComment-3511797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Eskrador was after the Heresy though................. Wait...so the Ultramarines nuked the site from orbit because it was the only way to make sure? Meaning the Alphas suffered 100% losses of the ground assets they committed to Eskrador? SPIRITUAL LIEGED IN YOUR OWN IA, SNAKES! Eskrador also never happened, or if it did, it was an Alpha Legion vs. Alpha Legion (Alpharius vs. Omegon) engagement. If you read the rest of the IA, you'll notice that the Ultramarines have never admitted that they fought on Eskrador (and why would you not claim a Primarch kill?), and the Inquisitor who "discovered" that information is possibly an Alpha Legion plant anyway. As for the bling, I'd suggest keeping it subtle. Cloaks and crests are too obvious, but a little extra decoration on the armor wouldn't be amiss. The fancy draconic stuff like Alpharius' description from TFH is probably just for ceremonial purposes. The Ultramarines have never denied it either. An why would you admit that you killed a Primarch, only for your butt to get kicked by a lowly Astartes? Actually, several Astartes as the IA said that every time one head(commander) was killed, another rose to take his place. The description wasn't from The First Heretic though..... Point taken and accepted. Also, Guilliman was willing to ignore the Imperium Secundus just because he thought it would make him look bad in the future. So there is definitely that little vanity streak going on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282738-alpha-legion-and-bling/#findComment-3511805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Loose lips? "Serpent Beneath" had Alpha Legion commanders falsifying base layouts they were sending to their own PRIMARCH. That's not a good thing. XX is coming unglued as surely as XII or VIII. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282738-alpha-legion-and-bling/#findComment-3511827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Yes, and rightly so given what happened ;) It is clear from that short, that they could distinguish rank based on some form of ornamentation. The garrison is, after all, just the sort of 'normal' force upon which one could draw for details. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282738-alpha-legion-and-bling/#findComment-3511954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpiousSmart Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 That's not a good thing. XX is coming unglued as surely as XII or VIII. Agreed - they're falling in precisely the manor of their own legion just like the ECs or TSs. All the theories just dodge around this inescapable fact. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282738-alpha-legion-and-bling/#findComment-3511957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Thats just what they want you to think... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282738-alpha-legion-and-bling/#findComment-3511967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 I have given this a lot of thought. On one side, 'bling' is counter productive. Big crests on your helm, bright heraldry and Pteruges can all be counter productive in infiltration and covert ops. However when on the battlefield, toe to toe with the enemy, the need for squad markings become more important. Even big crests have a use. They draw certain enemy's to you. For example if your the best swordsmen in your unit you want the enemy's own to champion to seek you out. With my own AL(who I've defected back to, again) I will use white stripes on the helm to mark out squad leaders and hq units, hydras, squad numbering (well lettering), a moriat with a crest on his helm (he is a 'free spirit' after all), and the legion symbol will all appear in its green glory. Stealth units such as Seekers, Vigilator and recon squads will be more muted, darker colour with less obvious heraldry. Also I'm going to ignore the whole mark IV only thing. Yes the whole legion was issued with it, but why would they not also be given mark III for void warfare and similar engagements. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282738-alpha-legion-and-bling/#findComment-3512051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entei Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 In The Serpent Beneath the commanding officer of the Tenebrae Installation wears a crest on his helmet. But he turns out to be a decoy... after Omegon used the officers own helmet to smash his face in... A crest can be dangerous. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282738-alpha-legion-and-bling/#findComment-3512110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kais Klip Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Loose lips? "Serpent Beneath" had Alpha Legion commanders falsifying base layouts they were sending to their own PRIMARCH. That's not a good thing. XX is coming unglued as surely as XII or VIII. It's the extreme end of operational compartmentalisation, which is a process as balanced and "karma" as anything you can do. The AL prefer their men to die due to not knowing rather than being killed by those who do know. As I said, both of those extremes can be justified. The entire legion is a case study of the disadvantages and advantages of keeping secrets. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282738-alpha-legion-and-bling/#findComment-3512128 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Trust is the only true currency. ...or something... :) I'll still go with my "the bling is a trap" approach! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282738-alpha-legion-and-bling/#findComment-3512140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Trust is the only true currency. ...or something... :) I'll still go with my "the bling is a trap" approach! and all I envisage is the giant imperial calamari shouting "its a trap!" But seriously if im interpreting the novels correctly I think AL wear whichever armour in whatever colours/marks needed to get the job done and considering 90% of the time they run around going "im spartacus and so is my wife" dress them however you like and make up some cool fluff :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282738-alpha-legion-and-bling/#findComment-3512147 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.