heron Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Greetings- I just got the new codex and have been toying with pulling the shards of my very old Sisters army (which I made about 3 editions ago, back when you downloaded the list and could still take zealots as troops). In all honesty, Sisters were probably my first real love in 40K, so the idea of starting them up again has an appeal, made stronger because of the 6E ally rules, which means I can combine in elements of my current armies (Elysians and Ravenwing). I like the idea that they can be a solid, durable shooting core that can support either of the more mobile armies I have now.That said, I realize that without being able to use my zealots, I have only a few squads of Sisters, 1or 2 rhinos and an immolator, so obviously I have to build up again. So I wanted to put out a few questions for those more recently experienced with the army.My goal is to get about 1000-1250 pts together for a start, and then see if I want to build/paint more than that after I have tried them with allies for a few months. The current thought is to go with a handful of mobile units in Immolators (probably 1 or 2 minimum squads of battle sisters, perhaps a command squad or a battle convclave) and then have a big blob of 20 sisters on foot, hosting a priest and Uriah Jacobus, to really take advantage of their battle hymms.Given that I am returning after a very long time away, I wanted to get some thoughts from players with more recent experience, both with the newer Sisters rules and playing them in 6E. So here are a few questions.1- What about seraphim? How are people using this unit? I never used them in the past, but on paper they seem pretty useful. Given that I will probably be allying the Sisters with ravenwing for the time being, its not as clear how useful they would be for my immediate needs , but I wanted to get some thoughts as I build it back up past 1K.2- Command choice. Its clear that Jacobus is the "go-to" warlord. That said, at a points level where two HQ's make sense, would it ever make sense to take a cannoness, or is St. Celestine just too good to ignore? I usually prefer to make my own HQ's, so that might tip the scales for me, but its worth asking.3- Avengers. Given that the current list has no anti-air, and a lovable, but unreliable, HS choice in the exorcist, I am seriously considering using Avengers as an alternative. My local scene is very FW friendly, and all of our store events allow 40K approved units, so I would definitely use it regularly. Any experience with Avengers? Thanks in advance for any of your thoughts Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282743-help-with-returning-to-the-order-after-a-long-time-away/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureFodder Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Here's my perspective - others may have differing opinions. 1- I use Seraphim as a deepstriking pain for your opponent to deal with. They are very handy for dealing with the scoring units your opponent leaves in his deployment zone. A unit with 2 hand flamers can decimate most cheap scoring units with ease and can deny their rear objectives and get you linebreaker. Deepstrike them right next to the unit you want to burn and if you roll a hit, it can win you a game. Their 12" maximum range means you really do want to be aggressive with deepstriking them, even if the worst does happen when you deepstrike, you only have a 1 in 6 chance to loose them to the warp. 2- Jacobus isn't an insta-choice HQ really. he's expensive for what he does and no longer benefits battle conclaves in the way he used to. A 12" fearless bubble is useful however, especially if he sits in a transport. 3- The Avenger is a very decent anti-air unit if it comes on second. Only having armour 12 at the front and 2 hull points makes it fairly easy to shoot down. 2 lascannons and 2 autocannons however will scare most fliers and Armour 10 fliers go down easy to the Avenger bolt cannon. it is also very versatile as it can go anti tank and anti infantry as needed. Just remember that if you give it the extra 2 guns, one of them has to snap shot as you can only fire 4 weapons at full BS! Also remember to snap-fire the rear heavy stubber at any passing terminators for those approximately 1-in-25 times it manages to get a lucky kill in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282743-help-with-returning-to-the-order-after-a-long-time-away/#findComment-3511506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
heron Posted November 2, 2013 Author Share Posted November 2, 2013 Here's my perspective - others may have differing opinions. 1- I use Seraphim as a deepstriking pain for your opponent to deal with. They are very handy for dealing with the scoring units your opponent leaves in his deployment zone. A unit with 2 hand flamers can decimate most cheap scoring units with ease and can deny their rear objectives and get you linebreaker. Deepstrike them right next to the unit you want to burn and if you roll a hit, it can win you a game. Their 12" maximum range means you really do want to be aggressive with deepstriking them, even if the worst does happen when you deepstrike, you only have a 1 in 6 chance to loose them to the warp. 2- Jacobus isn't an insta-choice HQ really. he's expensive for what he does and no longer benefits battle conclaves in the way he used to. A 12" fearless bubble is useful however, especially if he sits in a transport. 3- The Avenger is a very decent anti-air unit if it comes on second. Only having armour 12 at the front and 2 hull points makes it fairly easy to shoot down. 2 lascannons and 2 autocannons however will scare most fliers and Armour 10 fliers go down easy to the Avenger bolt cannon. it is also very versatile as it can go anti tank and anti infantry as needed. Just remember that if you give it the extra 2 guns, one of them has to snap shot as you can only fire 4 weapons at full BS! Also remember to snap-fire the rear heavy stubber at any passing terminators for those approximately 1-in-25 times it manages to get a lucky kill in. Wonderful, that is just the sort of contemporary perspective I was hoping for. Thanks so much. Given your suggestions, it looks like a Cannoness might find a good home in the list, supported by a command squad. The Hospitaller looks good in that case, and I imagine the choice is to decide whether they are going to be a shooting squad or a melee team... Good to have some fresh thoughts on the sera[phim too- Do you stick with a minimum squad or make it a bit larger? As for Avengers, good point that the low side armor is a vulnerablity- probably the best idea is to run two and hope they both don't come on first. I was planning on not adding any extra weapns, just to keep them cheap- only 25 pts more than an Exorcist. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282743-help-with-returning-to-the-order-after-a-long-time-away/#findComment-3511570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigrid Of Asgaror Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 I have a unit of Seraphim in every list I make, and they haven't done me bad yet. I deep strike them in and hurt something hard and if they survive to the next turn (which isn't as unlikely as you may think) they hurt more stuff. The Canoness is my preferred HQ (always was, but more so now) she received some helpful equipment to make her more effective in her role. She isn't amazing, but she definitely isn't to be overlooked. Admittedly I haven't had a chance to play with the new codex, but from what I have seen it seems this way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282743-help-with-returning-to-the-order-after-a-long-time-away/#findComment-3511590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
oreaper84 Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 ive had a few games with the new dex and my thoughts are as follows... seraphim are a viable threat that your opponent has to deal with, either by deepstriking or by jumping up the field. I either deepstrike them in if the opponent has an ageis or some sort of other fortified position, but i also like toting them in next to an immo or two, between the two units the will completely delete a transported unit. Personally i use a canoness every single battle, she can be your cheap hq or bring exactly what a unit may need. One of the newly hated banes of my local meta has been my repressor full of rending flamers, 4 heavy, and as many combis as i can fit. In any proxy that ive used the avenger, it has either drawn a ton of fire and been brought down, or has decimated something. Either way its a win for us because it allows to get those oh so fragile transports downfield. Just remember that we have limited amounts of tools to get the job done so make sure you bring a little of every special to the table (oh and until it gets FAQ'd bring condemers and make those psykers cry!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282743-help-with-returning-to-the-order-after-a-long-time-away/#findComment-3512023 Share on other sites More sharing options...
heron Posted November 3, 2013 Author Share Posted November 3, 2013 Thanks for both sets of thoughts. I am now completely sold on seraphim and will get a basic squad when I find a decent price on eBay. Glad to hear that people have liked the Avenger as well. I love the model and found some for a good price, so I'm happy to include them. Curious as a general thought on what your opinions are on the veteran sister upgrade. It seems like the extra LD is pretty essential for making sure an act of faith works when needed. I know that a Laud Hailer works as well, but it costs the same and doesn;t give an extra attack in close combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282743-help-with-returning-to-the-order-after-a-long-time-away/#findComment-3512132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigrid Of Asgaror Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 I will be putting veteran superiors in all of my squads as a rule. It makes sense to me and I don't run as many transports as others do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282743-help-with-returning-to-the-order-after-a-long-time-away/#findComment-3512203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gomericus Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 1. seraphim are great units,,they can either use cover to outflank and jump out burning blobs or elite units,get behind tanks and grenade them to death,deep strike in and flame things in rear areas,,,combined with a saint can be real headaches for people. 2. I have never used Jacobus,seems he is more geared towards conclaves and well I preferre all sisters,,,I usually use a canoness and a saint,though the saint is less zombiefied now. 3. The avenger seems to be a good choice,but well with all the upgrades one might want to through into it you might end up spending 2 exorcists worth of points on it.IDK still seems solid,though Ive never run one,but would be great fun converting/scratchbuilding one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282743-help-with-returning-to-the-order-after-a-long-time-away/#findComment-3512208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
oreaper84 Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 as far as the vet upgrade, the 10 points is a ld tax as the extra ttack will hardly ever be used. A laud hailer on nearby tranports is a much better use of the 10 pts (rr ld 8 beat ld 9 everytime) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282743-help-with-returning-to-the-order-after-a-long-time-away/#findComment-3512271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 1 - Seraphim still rock. Mobility is key to how I play and Seraphim are highly mobile infantry killers. I take 8 to 10 with hand flamers and a melta bomb. 2 - I have yet to take Jacobus in a game with the new codex. Saint Celestine is still my warlord of choice and she is often joined with the Seraphim. I am also likeing the Canoness if I can keep her points low. Add her to a Command Squad with a hospitaller and 2 priests makes a tough nut to crack. 3 - Exorcists need to be taken in a pair to minimize the effects of low missile count rolls. Avengers don't have that problem. I would take 2 Exorcists over 2 Avengers but if you can only have one, the Avenger is the better choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282743-help-with-returning-to-the-order-after-a-long-time-away/#findComment-3512935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
heron Posted November 4, 2013 Author Share Posted November 4, 2013 again- thanks for all the feedback and thoughts- I am really looking forward to getting the girls back into action after all of this discussion. I am waiting on the Avenger to show up in shipping, so that might have to be proxied for the moment, but I should have it all together by the end of the month. I will post my working list in the armyist section. I am going with a cannoness as the sole HQ in the 1K list, but will add in either Celestine or Uriah when the list ges bigger. I have a single avenger in my 1K list, which is what I am working on finishing right now. I did get a chance to read the updated rules for the Repressor and must say thats its totally improved now with the Front Armor of 13. Might have to look into getting one or proxying one... By the way, I noticed that Privateer Press is releasing their Temple Flameguard in plastic. Assuming that the arms/and shields are not single-cast onto the bodies, this boxed set looks like it could be a superb base for making custom crusaders (or DCA's, if you put a power weapon in each arm). I was think Cadian or extra SM scout arms with leftover storm shields and power wpns from command sprues, would need to add in some purity seals and imperial bits from your collection to make them look "40K" rather than PP., but they don't seem to have too much Menoth heraldry on their torsos... Here's a link. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282743-help-with-returning-to-the-order-after-a-long-time-away/#findComment-3513328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvih Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 I've seen a lot of people mention the Repressor. The Forgeworld PDF says it has two fire points, with no mention of more than one model being able to shoot from each, despite there being three "window hatches" on each side. So anyone know if it's 2 or more that can shoot out from it? Too bad they didn't add the Repressor to C:AS though - it means that even if I were to get one, I wouldn't be able to use it in local tournaments Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282743-help-with-returning-to-the-order-after-a-long-time-away/#findComment-3513374 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigrid Of Asgaror Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 You can only fire two weapons from the Repressors view ports unfortunately. You should be able to use it a lot more than you used to be due to the change in Forge World rulings. There is a topic about it here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282691-forgeworld-to-become-official/ Basically FW stuff is becoming completely official, so you don't have to ask to use it. Which I personally think is great. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282743-help-with-returning-to-the-order-after-a-long-time-away/#findComment-3513388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvih Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Nah, that "ruling" really won't change anything. The discussion on the topic clearly prove as much. And regardless of the Internet, our local tournaments have always been "no FW", even though the local meta is otherwise quite relaxed. Anyway, sad news about only 2 firing slots. From some Googling it seems it used to be more? Shame. In any case, the number of models able to fire never made much sense. Definitely more than two should be able to shoot out of the Rhino top hatch, too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282743-help-with-returning-to-the-order-after-a-long-time-away/#findComment-3513397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 One model may fire fom each fire port. The basic rules are on page 78. "Unless specified differently in the vehicle's entry, a single passenger can fire out of each Fire Point and the other transported models cannot fire." You can pick any portal on the model to fire from but only two may fire. And yes, this is a very recent change. And can we leave the "officialness" for other threads, please? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282743-help-with-returning-to-the-order-after-a-long-time-away/#findComment-3513423 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAR Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 I am waiting for FW to reply to see of the Repressor can take the Codex: AS upgrades as the rules update for the repressor predates the codex Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282743-help-with-returning-to-the-order-after-a-long-time-away/#findComment-3513606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigrid Of Asgaror Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 That should be interesting. Keep us informed if you get a reply please. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282743-help-with-returning-to-the-order-after-a-long-time-away/#findComment-3513837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
heron Posted November 5, 2013 Author Share Posted November 5, 2013 I am waiting for FW to reply to see of the Repressor can take the Codex: AS upgrades as the rules update for the repressor predates the codex It would be great to know if they the Shield of Faith army rule as well... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282743-help-with-returning-to-the-order-after-a-long-time-away/#findComment-3513968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 They do, as of the most recent Repressor rules, heron. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282743-help-with-returning-to-the-order-after-a-long-time-away/#findComment-3514142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAR Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I just got my reply from FW: Yes it can take the codex upgrades so I image the SoF rule would also be allowed for it.....now I need lots of repressors Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282743-help-with-returning-to-the-order-after-a-long-time-away/#findComment-3514952 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 war, have you actually seen the Repressor pdf update? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282743-help-with-returning-to-the-order-after-a-long-time-away/#findComment-3515026 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAR Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Yeah but it makes no mention of SoF or laud hailers so that is why I asked about laud hailers mainly Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282743-help-with-returning-to-the-order-after-a-long-time-away/#findComment-3515253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I wonder if you have a current update. http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/r/RepressorFAQversion1P.pdf Shield of Faith is listed in its special rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282743-help-with-returning-to-the-order-after-a-long-time-away/#findComment-3515264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAR Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I missed that part.....mmmmm repressors Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282743-help-with-returning-to-the-order-after-a-long-time-away/#findComment-3515278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigrid Of Asgaror Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Cool to know they can get Laud hailers though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282743-help-with-returning-to-the-order-after-a-long-time-away/#findComment-3515297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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