Throwing my codex across the room aka redeem me

[Interrogator Stobz]

I agree, I play for fun too. I've been tabled by my regular Tau opponent nearly every time I play him. 6th is getting a little old here too. But my philosophy still stands...inclusive rules are better than exclusive ones, or if that only makes sense to me : Variety is the spice of life

[march10k]

I play for fun. So I usually skip playing against broken codexes like Tau. It's just not fun.  Riptide or missile broadside spam gets old real quick. The last game I played two riptides and 6 broadsides all used interceptor (the broadsides don't need line of sight for smart missiles) and then they support fired immediately afterward as another unit charged them, even though the wouldn't be able to shoot in their next shooting phase. While this is not against the rules it is rather cheesy. Having a commander with a drone controller and 8+ missile drones = a lot of super cheap units that that hit on BS5.

 

My point is that the game should be fun for you. If it's not then change it up. Play another army, or don't play against those broken codexes. Going to my local shop at watching the Tau players watching other people play makes my happy.

See, it's this sort of thing that makes me want to build a tau list without such things as missilesides and riptides (and win anyway).  I play for fun, too.  My 4th/5th edition list had two crisis teams consisting of one fireknife, one helios, one fusion/missile (forget the name), and a shas'el with all three weapons (only firing two).  Only eight crisis suits, when less than ten was heresy, and only two that followed the rule of "only take fireknife and deathrain suits."  And it had stealth suits, automatic disqualification from competitive status for the sin of "wasting" an elites FOC slot on something that isn't crisis suits.  And two railheads when broadsides still had proper rail guns on them.  And no markerlights.  And more than six fire wariors. And so on.  I HATE it when people gravitate to an OP codex and then just spam the best cheese in it till the cows come home.  Why can't they just treat the extra power of the codex as added latitude for experimentation instead of treating it as a shortcut to auto-win? 

[Biggabertha]

Unfortunately... Most people just want to win and brag that they won.

 

It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile: winning is winning.

 

 

(To most people)

[elmo]

As a tau player as well as DA the tau tend to rely on marker lights to increase bs, remove cover saves etc so kill the ml and most units will end up being bs3. Tau pulse rifles have a rapid range of 15 inch but watch out for sniper drones, high bs and a 24 inch rapid fire bubble.

 

Most tau units are bs3 (this also includes the standard battlesuits) and although the weapons are high strength they don't have good armour penetration usually av5.

 

It is true that the drone controller gives any attached drones the same bs as the unit carrying it. But I am not sure where you get the 8 missile drone example from as missile drones are NOT affected by the drone controller. Most tau players use it with marker drones or gun drones. The missile drone can only be used by the broadside and the shielded missile drone by the riptide.

 

Also the tau have NO pyskers so use that to your advantage.

 

After spending many years playing the tau codex edition 4.5 it seems like codex creep is eventually catching up. ;)

 

Smart missiles don't need los but the other weapons the XV88 carries do so if he chooses to fire these 4 tl shots at a unit he can't see then the stronger high yield missiles are wasted.

 

Personally I play for fun and only get upset against a tournament gamer who is too serious and, dare I say "beardy" and not at the codex I am playing against.

 

Just my tuppence worth :)

[[TA]Typher]

Elmo9141, on 06 Nov 2013 - 04:58, said:

As a tau player as well as DA the tau tend to rely on marker lights to increase bs, remove cover saves etc so kill the ml and most units will end up being bs3. Tau pulse rifles have a rapid range of 15 inch but watch out for sniper drones, high bs and a 24 inch rapid fire bubble.

Most tau units are bs3 (this also includes the standard battlesuits) and although the weapons are high strength they don't have good armour penetration usually av5.

It is true that the drone controller gives any attached drones the same bs as the unit carrying it. But I am not sure where you get the 8 missile drone example from as missile drones are NOT affected by the drone controller. Most tau players use it with marker drones or gun drones. The missile drone can only be used by the broadside and the shielded missile drone by the riptide.

Also the tau have NO pyskers so use that to your advantage.

After spending many years playing the tau codex edition 4.5 it seems like codex creep is eventually catching up.

Smart missiles don't need los but the other weapons the XV88 carries do so if he chooses to fire these 4 tl shots at a unit he can't see then the stronger high yield missiles are wasted.

Personally I play for fun and only get upset against a tournament gamer who is too serious and, dare I say "beardy" and not at the codex I am playing against.

Just my tuppence worth

If you attach your HQ (with a drone controller) to a unit of three broadsides you can have up to 8 missiles drones that shoot at BS5.

With the allies rules you can have easily have Eldar psykers in your units.

I played a 2500 battle vs a Tau player the other day.

He set up the board, which had only had one LOS piece of terrain. It happened to be in his deployment zone and he deployed on top of it, thus negativing it.

His list was..

HQ commander -Drone controller, Irridium Armor two missiles drones

Ethereal in a transport along with 10 Fire Warriors. (he stays behind everyone pumping out special abilities.

10 Fire Warriors

10 Fire Warriors

10 Kroot

10+ Kroot

10 Pathfinders

3 crisis suits with fusion blasters

2 Riptides with several upgrades (both had skyfire)

3 broadsides -Missiles pods and other upgrades (all had skyfire) 6 missile drones (The Commander gets attached)

3 broadsides -Missiles pods and other upgrades (all had skyfire) 6 missile drones

Eldar pskyer attached to one of the broadsides He had prescience and the other eldar power that lets you re-roll misses

3 jet bikes

3 jet bikes

There were probably a few more things, but I don't remember them.

The amount of fire this puts out, aloong with NO LOS terrain = other armies melt.

Each unit of broadside units pump out thirty shots (the one with the HQ has 34). 18 at S7 (22 at S7 for the HQ) and 12 at S5 that ignore LOS. With the Eldar's abilities EVERYTHING has re-rolls to hit. I just read the done comtroller rule. I didn't know that missile drones couldn't use it, because that's how he used it. Even they with two pskyer powers that let you reroll misses BS 3 isn't a huge deal.

This is a tough list.

Did you know that Tau can Skyfire, then immediately overwatch with that same weapon, even though they can't use in in there next shooting phase? It's totally legal, but makes no sense.

http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z389/typher/Misc%2040k/cover_zpsd4ceefc6.jpg

I tried to hide my vehicles the best I could but we seemed to disagree about covers saves. He told me that #1 would be NO cover save and #2 is only 5+ (that was the best I could hide my whirlwind with the terrain on my side)

He also told me that even though a Tau unit was in CC it still allowed supporting fire from other units if it was charged again. The rule says others within 6" can shoot as if THEY WERE THE ONES BEING CHARGED. As you can't shoot overwatch if you are already in combat, this should mean that the other people couldn't. I didn't know the wording of Volley fire at the time, so he was allowed to do it with all of his broadsides and drones and a riptide.

I called it on turn 4. We played kill points. He had 8 and I had 3, but I was in CC with several of his units. I would have kept winning, but at most I would have had 6 to 8 points at the end with no hope of more. The frowning face I made through the whole game wasn't worth finishing it.

Tactics, terrain, power gamers and lists like make the game intolerable. I understand the OP's frustration. but I also see my own fault in it too. I should have read the whole Tau codex before I played against them (It's sad that I have to do that), and I should have argued about more LOS terrain. I could say that I should argue about each rule I disagree with, but after a while it becomes laborious and removes the fun of playing.

Over all I just with that GW would write better (clearer) rules, or at least have a outlet to correct them in a timely manner if there is a problem. Waiting months or years for simple text correction is horrible. I also wish they would play test codexs more.

[SlickSamos]

I'm sorry to hear that Brother Typher,

He's either a cheater, a fool, or both... The rules are really clear, I wouldn't blame GW for this. I read the vast majority of the correctly first time, then the FAQ caught everything else.

Missile Drones specifically don't benefit from the Drone Controller... Only Broadsides can take them... Skyfire and Inceptor don't transfer onto the Drones... Everything can Overwatch after you've fired it during shooting... Each unit can only Overwatch once, Supporting Fire counts as Overwatch... There is no way of getting extra shots off anything which isn't a Pulse Weapon, and Burst Cannons don't count as Pulse Weapons... Too little terrain is actually illegal...

Tau is not over powered in a legal setup. Also most old tau players managed to figure out how to play the old underpowered codex well, you can kind of imagine what happened when the veterans got their hands on the new version

What I'd suggest you do is go over to ATT (Advanced Tau Tactica) and post your complaint there, they'll happily help you out with references and such

Brother Samos

[SlickSamos]

To the OP.

As others have already said:

Up the points value as the game isn't designed for 500pts

More terrain!

I'd suggest making sure that everyone escalates at the same rate otherwise it'll be just the first one to get a Flyer wins for a while then everything gets skewed. Perhaps have campaign rules which benefit the looser to keep things interesting. Or have it narrative driven.

Just a thought

PS

Don't buy unnecessary upgrades.

Don't try to match your opponents, if that makes sense. As in don't try to out shoot Shooters and out assault Assaulters...

[elmo]

HQ commander -Drone controller, Irridium Armor two missiles drones

Only broadsides can take missile drones: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3170231a_Tau_Empire_v1.0_APRIL13.pdf

I suggest you get your opponent to update his rules as this came out in April!!

The broadside team without the commander is firing at BS3 and if he has no drone controller with them then the drones are at BS2.

Smart missiles have a range of 24" and yes they do not need line of sight but if los is a problem then the HYMP cannot see to shoot at the same target.

I will check up in my codex this weekend and let you know on the other things he did although I don't really want to take this thread off topic but I think that he may be wrong on a couple of other things too I would not use the word "cheat" but the scenery was also definitely lacking. Is he a power gamer by any chance or just lacking in knowledge?

Get yourself over to ATT Tactics after all "To beat your enemy you must first understand your enemy"

[[TA]Typher]

I think there is a difference between old Tau players that suffered through a bad codex and the power gamers that have migrated to it, because of of the hard hitting potential it has now.

 

With allies and nit-picking rules to your advantage they are overpowered in my opinion. These games aren't impossible to win, but sometimes you start at a disadvantage and it's a uphill battle for you. If the dice gods don't help them nothing you can do will even the playing field. 

Good catch @Elmo.

 

I have zero interest in Tau... like I said I shouldn't have to read all there rules and FAQs before I play against them. Especially against a tournament power gamer. 

[elmo]

I would at least have expected my opponent to know his rules and play within the boundaries of the rules. I do not enjoy playing against people like that either.

 

You have my sympathies.

 

Now I really must get back to the Ares!!!

[[TA]Typher]

LOL why are you even here! Back to work!

[Brother dean]

The last Tau player I played tried to +1 for open topped on my speeder...  Did that go away in 5th or just last year in 6th?  Either way it never applied to Space Marines as they arent open topped...   I think possibly he had just came back since they had a new codex...

[elmo]

It went with the 6th and you are correct it did not apply to SM in the 5th due to them wearing PA - hell I am starting to sound like a rules lawyer.... Must      paint      something!

 

 

All Tau players are not like that! Is it pick on little blue Xenos day or something ;)

[twopounder]

Elmo9141, on 06 Nov 2013 - 04:58, said:

As a tau player as well as DA the tau tend to rely on marker lights to increase bs, remove cover saves etc so kill the ml and most units will end up being bs3. Tau pulse rifles have a rapid range of 15 inch but watch out for sniper drones, high bs and a 24 inch rapid fire bubble.

Most tau units are bs3 (this also includes the standard battlesuits) and although the weapons are high strength they don't have good armour penetration usually av5.

It is true that the drone controller gives any attached drones the same bs as the unit carrying it. But I am not sure where you get the 8 missile drone example from as missile drones are NOT affected by the drone controller. Most tau players use it with marker drones or gun drones. The missile drone can only be used by the broadside and the shielded missile drone by the riptide.

Also the tau have NO pyskers so use that to your advantage.

After spending many years playing the tau codex edition 4.5 it seems like codex creep is eventually catching up.

Smart missiles don't need los but the other weapons the XV88 carries do so if he chooses to fire these 4 tl shots at a unit he can't see then the stronger high yield missiles are wasted.

Personally I play for fun and only get upset against a tournament gamer who is too serious and, dare I say "beardy" and not at the codex I am playing against.

Just my tuppence worth

If you attach your HQ (with a drone controller) to a unit of three broadsides you can have up to 8 missiles drones that shoot at BS5.

With the allies rules you can have easily have Eldar psykers in your units.

I played a 2500 battle vs a Tau player the other day.

He set up the board, which had only had one LOS piece of terrain. It happened to be in his deployment zone and he deployed on top of it, thus negativing it.

His list was..

HQ commander -Drone controller, Irridium Armor two missiles drones

Ethereal in a transport along with 10 Fire Warriors. (he stays behind everyone pumping out special abilities.

10 Fire Warriors

10 Fire Warriors

10 Kroot

10+ Kroot

10 Pathfinders

3 crisis suits with fusion blasters

2 Riptides with several upgrades (both had skyfire)

3 broadsides -Missiles pods and other upgrades (all had skyfire) 6 missile drones (The Commander gets attached)

3 broadsides -Missiles pods and other upgrades (all had skyfire) 6 missile drones

Eldar pskyer attached to one of the broadsides He had prescience and the other eldar power that lets you re-roll misses

3 jet bikes

3 jet bikes

There were probably a few more things, but I don't remember them.

The amount of fire this puts out, aloong with NO LOS terrain = other armies melt.

Each unit of broadside units pump out thirty shots (the one with the HQ has 34). 18 at S7 (22 at S7 for the HQ) and 12 at S5 that ignore LOS. With the Eldar's abilities EVERYTHING has re-rolls to hit. I just read the done comtroller rule. I didn't know that missile drones couldn't use it, because that's how he used it. Even they with two pskyer powers that let you reroll misses BS 3 isn't a huge deal.

This is a tough list.

Did you know that Tau can Skyfire, then immediately overwatch with that same weapon, even though they can't use in in there next shooting phase? It's totally legal, but makes no sense.

http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z389/typher/Misc%2040k/cover_zpsd4ceefc6.jpg

I tried to hide my vehicles the best I could but we seemed to disagree about covers saves. He told me that #1 would be NO cover save and #2 is only 5+ (that was the best I could hide my whirlwind with the terrain on my side)

He also told me that even though a Tau unit was in CC it still allowed supporting fire from other units if it was charged again. The rule says others within 6" can shoot as if THEY WERE THE ONES BEING CHARGED. As you can't shoot overwatch if you are already in combat, this should mean that the other people couldn't. I didn't know the wording of Volley fire at the time, so he was allowed to do it with all of his broadsides and drones and a riptide.

I called it on turn 4. We played kill points. He had 8 and I had 3, but I was in CC with several of his units. I would have kept winning, but at most I would have had 6 to 8 points at the end with no hope of more. The frowning face I made through the whole game wasn't worth finishing it.

Tactics, terrain, power gamers and lists like make the game intolerable. I understand the OP's frustration. but I also see my own fault in it too. I should have read the whole Tau codex before I played against them (It's sad that I have to do that), and I should have argued about more LOS terrain. I could say that I should argue about each rule I disagree with, but after a while it becomes laborious and removes the fun of playing.

Over all I just with that GW would write better (clearer) rules, or at least have a outlet to correct them in a timely manner if there is a problem. Waiting months or years for simple text correction is horrible. I also wish they would play test codexs more.

Keep in mind that these people will only play as long as others agree to play them. The best bet is to shun them. It's one thing to confuse a rule, quite another to blatantly cheat. I don't remember off the top of my head, but I do believe there are a number of exclusions for volley fire.

Though, to be honest, this edition has really opened the door for power gamers and the win at all costs crowd. I've never seen so many cheaters in my 16 years of gaming as I have now. I'm not sure if it's because the power of the codices is getting out of control or GW's revolving door sales tactics, but it's bad.

As to the OP - play 1000 point games. The reason it was switched up to 1000 is to balance point costs with FOC slots. For example, in a 500 point game, Eldar can take a wraithlord with plenty of goodies. Marines can only take a couple of tac squads with missile launchers (maybe lascannons). The result is that a single Eldar unit can tie up the entire 500 point marine shooting phase for 3 turns, and the wraithlord can dish out an equally deadly amount of fire power by itself.

At 1000 points, marines have more options, such as terminators, that can deal with multiple wraithlords.

Also, make use of outflank, fliers, and whirlwinds against tau. Outflanking and Whirlwinds are especially deadly to them. A couple bike squads coming in next to their broadsides with plasma guns/multimeltas will scatter their formation and take pressure off your main line.

[Interrogator Stobz]

...

Is it pick on little blue Xenos day or something

EVERYDAY is pick on little blue Xenos day...

...BLAMMO!!!!

:D

[Major_Gilbear]

I understand the OP's frustration. but I also see my own fault in it too. I should have read the whole Tau codex before I played against them (It's sad that I have to do that), and I should have argued about more LOS terrain. I could say that I should argue about each rule I disagree with, but after a while it becomes laborious and removes the fun of playing.

A good post actually, and with helpful pix... But this paragraph -and in particular, the highlighted section- sums it up for me.

If your opponent is playing one of the cheesiest armies that he can concoct, and ignores LOS terrain to such a huge degree to begin with, he should at least have the good sportsmanship to give you the benefit of the doubt on any "LOS issues" like the ones you posted pix of, rather than arguing something which was clearly against him until you gave in to him.

If there is entirely insufficient terrain on the table as well, that goes double.

There is no way you should have needed to argue about LOS terrain if you had been playing against anyone who wanted to play a fair and fun game. And, without wanting to make too many sweeping assumptions about players and lists, if I saw a list like that on a lightly-terrained table, I'd smile, compliment him on fielding such a fiendish force, and not bother to set up myself. I mean, why bother? Lists like that have only one goal; and that goal sure as hell isn't about having a fun game.

Over all I just with that GW would write better (clearer) rules, or at least have a outlet to correct them in a timely manner if there is a problem. Waiting months or years for simple text correction is horrible. I also wish they would play test codexs more.

I will be honest; I like competitive games, because they can still be friendly and fun. However, games that have to be friendly and fun because they are not sufficiently well balanced enough to stop players breaking the game significantly if they want to are another matter. In these latter instances, you must have an agreement about what kind of game you want with your opponent first, and have some "gentlemen's agreements" against running the same broken list again and again - occasionally with forewarning, they can be interesting to face, but run regularly they basically invaldiate your opponent's reason for even participating.

I do think that GW should have more frequent revisions of their FAQs and, (especially) if they expect people to buy into digital editions, they need to not be shy about revising a whole weapon or unit entry if it very clearly over/under-powered.

Were they to do this, a lot of loopholes would be closed, and the game would be greatly improved.

However, GW doesn't want to alienate players who have bought models more than they have to, and I can see that many people would be quick to accuse them of being cash-grabbers* if they release an OP unit, and they nerf it via FAQ two months later after they've sold a huge number to players. Notwithstanding, I would prefer to have more frequent updates and re-balancing efforts (within reason).

(* Yes, I know... But it would be much worse! )

______________________________________________________________________________

@ OP: sorry for derailing the thread!

I would suggest that you play with differnt Force Orgs at very low points, something like the Combat Patrol rules that were mentioned earlier. games are balanced around 1500-2500pt games generally, and as soon as you veer too far outside that game size, the balance starts getting wonky fast for some armies.

If you are still struggling, maybe increase to 600pt or 750pt games? Those extra points can mean the difference between having a balanced game or not without necessarily meaning much more stuff on the table.

[facmanpob]

I understand the OP's frustration. but I also see my own fault in it too. I should have read the whole Tau codex before I played against them (It's sad that I have to do that), and I should have argued about more LOS terrain. I could say that I should argue about each rule I disagree with, but after a while it becomes laborious and removes the fun of playing.

My tuppence:

1) Your opponent should be ready to discuss the Special Rules of the Codex he is playing with, that's just good manners and sportsmanship. We only need to bring and understand our own codex.... not all of us have the cash to splash out on every single codex in the game! If anyone ever refused to do this prior to a game then I wouldn't even unpack my models!

2) The BRB tells us how much terrain we should be putting on the table, and goes into some detail about what constitutes a 'single' piece of terrain (a single substantial element or a cluster of up to 3 smaller pieces). Setting up terrain even occupies a position in the standard set up sequence for a game. So the easiest way to get around having to "argue about more LOS terrain" is to simply say "Let's use the set up guide from the BRB". If the opponent makes a fuss, then find someone else to play, as theoretically, by insisting on doing it by the BRB, you hold the moral high ground!

[Larhendiel]

Well I must say myself that I haven't yet won a single game against necrons. My friend who introduced me to 40k and plays them is not a power gamer, he has only one deathmark unit, no arks no flying sun eaters, no scarabs, no barges that produce new troops and yet I always loose. He is that good.

But when I face power gamers I deecided to use this army list:

HQ:
Sammael on corvex

5 Knights with aphotecary an banner of devastation

Fast:
5 knights
Ravenwing darkshroud

 

Troops
As many squads of Ravenwing attack squadron with three bikers and
Attack bike with multi-melta as you can fit (up to maximum of 6 of course)

 

Try it, keep one of the bikers in 6 inches from the aphotecary holding banner so whole squad can salvo. melta attack bikes are going to take heavy things. so many t-linked plasmas will manage many flyers. Remember that flyers that zoom are hit on 6, but when they stop zooming you hit them normally, and also in zoom mode they don't have any cover unless making that special evasive maneuver.

 

Having so many small units will mean that although your enemy is very likely to claim first blood (if they start first) you will hardly ever waste any shots, remember that each attack bike is a separate unit so if he kills it it probably gonna be an overkill, while you can melta his tanks one by one, destroy his units one by one, and you will not have an overkills, your shots will not be wasted. Hving so many small units will also mean that even if he ties you in combat and you don't run, he will not tie big chunks of your points.

 

But most of all read the rules, I read them daily and I keep finding new stuff to use in my advantage.

[HsojVvad]

When I use to play, I played with the 4th edition DA codex, while everyone was telling me to use the 5th SM codex. I said no thankyou, I will play with my DA. I lost every game. I suck. I never win a game of 40K, be it with DA or Tyranids. I haven't played in 6th, so that could have changed. 

 

Thing is, do you really need to win with plastic toy soldiers? For me, I have played for fun, I played in Tournies, and never won. I kept playing because it was fun. While I loose 100% I still play. 

 

So with that being said, are you not having fun? Do you really need to win? I can understand loosing is not fun all the time, but I think if you switch armies, you will still not have fun and it will be wasting time/money/effort in starting a new army. You don't start a new army so you can just win. It will not work for you and you will end up quitting eventually.

 

So with that being said, and how other posters have said your opponent was cheating or not playing by the real rules, why not keep trying by playing by the real rules? I don't think I saw you comment about that part yet, so sorry if you have. 

 

How about using "counts as"? While you may not have the actual minis, just use different units in the codex and have your minis represent them. It will give you a chance to use different units and try different tactics. 

 

Don't forget while you are going to more points, it will give your opponents more "hurt" as you said, but it will also give YOU, more options as well to take now. Use what ever is in the codex and use "counts as" if you don't have the actual minis for it. 

 

Remember, the game is suppose to be fun. Do you want to lose and have fun with an army you love, or with with an army you don't really care for?

[Biggabertha]

I really like what you wrote, facmanpob!

 

Some of my opponents just outright lie - and like [TA]Typher, you can only swallow so much bile before you just stop having anymore fun.

When opponents cheat and when they bend so many rules in their favour is just not fair. The win is too important for them - I would NEVER shake my hand with any opponent like that because they didn't respect me.

 

Though... [TA]Typher DID win against a pair of opponents when they were cheating/bending the rules...

[ChaosRising]

I've collected and played Dark Angels since first edition 40k. I've flirted with many other armies as diversions, but the mighty green line has always been my passion. I currently have 2 fully painted battle companies, a full Deathwing and 90 scouts all with multiple support vehicles.

 

However after the last two weekends I think I may give up and go xenos...

 

Having moved recently I've got some old friends and family members together to play 40k when we can and the last two weekends have seen some small games to help us learn 6th edition rules. I've been unlucky and people can see the pain as another triple snake eyes comes up and despite my awesome strategies it's my army that keeps letting me down. So before I go all gribbly, I thought I'd try and find some help.

 

We are currently playing 500 point games on 4x4 tables with random missions each game.

 

The games I've really struggled are:

 

- The Tau I can't out shoot them and with a command unit throwing out 27 dice of death a turn, then 12 fire warriors pumping out 12x3xS5 shots within 15 inches I'm lucky if anything makes it into their half of the board. They tend to all clump together and then move to objective as a pack. 

- The Necron have units of 15 warriors with a lord and im lucky if I can keep 2 or 3 down a turn from sustained fire. The rest of his army is made up of destroyers that zoom round finishing off lone units and I can't bring enough fire power to them.

 

The other players are eldar who seem to be working out how to play as we go along so getting scarier each game and a chaos marine army that I'm on par with and struggle equally against the xenos.  

 

I've been playing with a mix of tactical squads, librarian and then about 150 points of support choices e.g. rifleman dread, scouts, predator.

 

We're upping the games to 1,000 next and I just see pain doubled!  This is a plea to my fellow green armoured brethren - save me!

 

Karrde,

 

First off, I want to offer my apologies on behalf of those players who do like an honest game, whether it be aggressive or friendly. I'm afraid that I would have little of substance to add that has not been said already about people who cheat, bend rules, or otherwise act as "rules lawyers."

 

As far as armies go, I have (sort of) recently begun playing both Necrons and Dark Angels, with respectable results for each.

 

Although I have a long way to go before I can profess to be master of Necron tactics, which is really not why I am here, I can tell you that the 'Crons are not quite as overpowered as you think. Granted they probably are far scarier than you last remembered them, but the are still slower than molasses (I2 across the board with only two exceptions). My advice is get them into close combat and give them a good thrashing before they can recover. If there are any survivors, there's a decent chance that they will flee from combat and be overrun.

 

 

Please bear in mind that I have played only one game as D.A. (a win), but it did give me a bit of insight. With that said, I hope that some of these ideas will help you in some way against some of your sneaky foes.

 

Take missile launchers.

-They have the best range limit available to a heavy weapon in the D.A. armoury

-They can take on air (for an addt'l cost/launcher) in addition to the usual roles of anti-infantry and anti-big stuff. So far I have used them mostly for anti-infantry (was playing against demons, so I didn't need krak missiles too often), but having whatever you need at hand is always a nice little perk. A couple well placed frag missiles each turn have the potential to do a fair bit of damage over the course of a game. 

 

For what it's worth, I only took 1 launcher and did a nice number on my foe. I am now working on 2 more for a Dev. squad, which will eventually be bumped up to a 4 launcher Dev. squad.

 

 

On a similar note, take flamers.

-They're cheap

-They're assault weapons, so you can burn a max of roughly 5 models (if they're all clumped up) just before getting into a slug fest

-They work very nicely during overwatch when being charged for the same reason as above.

 

Consider using combat squads. Sure, each squad will have fewer models and has the potential to go down faster. However, you can force your opponent to spread out his efforts as you attack him from more locations. Additionally, each combat squad can take either a special weapon (which includes a flamer) or a heavy weapon (including missile launchers). This is a great way to field a high number of heavy weapons if you don't have Devastators, or don't have the points for them. If you have them, or can squeeze them in, consider throwing in a Dev squad to support the multitude of combat squads.

 

I do  not profess to have all the answers, but I do believe that those three things might help you against your opponents (tactically anyway).

[Galamere]

I'm one of those that are in the camp of doing theme lists. Like I have a Tau force that's supposed to be survivors from a crashed ship, so no experimental or exotic weapons, just fire warriors, a few tanks/transports that they repair, pathfinders, Crisis suits, ETC. nothing experimental or specialized like Riptides or Broadsides. I did the same in Fantasy with Tomb Kings chariots and even my deamons.

Sadly, people will often hear 'Tau' these days and flip, calling you a power gamer, same with Chaos players and now Eldar, kinda sad.

Still, seems like you are cursed to be against those that will spam the cheddar, and as someone above said you can chose not to play them (I have a mate that would ally old Sisters just to get Celestine for that cheese) but in the end, we all want to play, so yeah...

One solid force I ran once (Though it was a little over 500) was: two min sized tac squads with a dev plasma cannon squad but I think with Dark Angels you can drop a cheap Lib in there, and drop the Plasma cannons down to two and make it fit.

Another option, as many said, is the Whirlwhind, those no cover save missiles with shred the Fire Warriors, and I think their dirt cheap in the DA dex (Dont have mine handy)

Myself, I'm just getting started in Dark Angels (I'm mainly a Dark Eldar player, but have some Tau, and an old, unplayable Grey Knight/Sisters of Battle army before Matt Ward descended upon us...)

Personally, again I'm a theme guy, I'd run Sammy on a speeder and Ravenwing (Not getting many, I know) but that's just me.

Also, as a Tau player, that cheese that Elmo stated just makes me sad. Yes a lot of the rules are there, but some have been addressed both in FAQs and here, like the commander with the missile drones (HE must take the drones, or the unit must be only drones, in the case of the Drone Squads they can take) and the cover save bits were just plain false. Killpoints is also a big problem, but most agree there that that mission is where cheese is born.

[elmo]

I was against cheddar. :)

 

Don't forget you can politely decline to play against anybody but be prepared to give a reasonable answer to why you have done this then maybe the other player may mend their ways.

 

As discussed the commander cannot take missile drones, you cannot have a squadron of missile drones. They can only be chosen as an addition to the broadsides and they do not get any bonus from the drone controller so are at bs2.

 

This has all been covered in faqs. My thoughts are that the tau player was playing to the ops lack of knowledge and did not know or ignored the faqs which are readily available.

 

The term cheese can be applied to many armies power lists and you will always get power gamers jumping from one codex to another more powerful one. I play fluffy and for fun even to the extent where I do not use allies but that is for another discussion ;)

 

Point in fact, I chose both the DA and tau years ago before the recent updates because of the fluff and models not the power.

 

But that's just me :)

[Galamere]

Another option I've been toying with, three landspeeders with heavy flamers for hunting out those cover save lovers, or just hammering squads, hard to stop six heavy flame temps.