Thousand Sons vs a Horde Army

[EvilWizard]

So I recently got into making a Thousand Sons army and playing it with my friends and local players at stores. I have had some successes but 3 of my friends all play horde armies being Tyranid, Ork, and IG. I was mainly looking at some feedback or idea's on better ways to maybe deal with them. Just some background, generally we like to play around 2000 pts. My main army that I play is Necron, but wanted to do something different.

So what I have been fielding so far is:

Ahriman

2x 10 1k Sons Squads (was putting icon of flame on the 10th person but think I need to leave this out, its not worth it)

20 Cultists with MoT

10 Terminators with Power Fist and MoT (don't know if the MoT is worth it)

Predator with Las Cannons

Vindicator

20 CSM with added CCW's

Now many times this list has just been cause I didn't have a great deal yet and was using some of my older normal Space Marines to act as CSM's, mainly the tanks and the 20 csm with ccw's.

What I was thinking about adding to help deal with the hordes was 2 Heldrakes with baleflamers and maybe changing out the 10 termies with powerfists to just 10 termies with power weapons and an icon of vengeance and charge into a horde for all the extra attacks and help kill normal things that way in assault.

I don't know how I would deal with other tanks or monsterous creatures though. Does deepstriking 3 man squads of terminators with combi melta's deal with armor work pretty well or should I stick with keeping some lascannon predators in the army?

I am just wary of having tanks of the board at times cause after playing Necron for so long I know how fragile they can be to glances.

Anyway thanks for any input, or if you want hit me over the head and tell me to get the necron shooty ideas out of your head that works too.

[Xenith]

MoT on te cultists is a waste - cover provides a better save, and for free. Buy more bodies, or autoguns.

 

I think it is worth it on the terminators, if you run into some meganobs or something, or monstrous creatures.

 

Each termie having a fist is way too expensive. Id go no more than 2/5 with fists. Preferably one chain fist, then 2 with axes. A squad of 10 I would equip: 1 chainfist, 1 powerfist, axe on the champion, 2 maces, 1 axes, 2 swords, then a mix of whatever. Lots of initiative step malarkey, but you want the majority of your dudes swinging at better than I1. Use the points saved on fists to buy combi weapons. Get a heavy flamer in the unit, then a mix of plasma, melta flamer, depending on what you normally face.

 

They key to having tanks on the board is to have enough of them to dilute the enemies anti tank firepower enough so that they either kill one tank per turn at most, or glance a few of them. 3 AV13 is an ok amount at 1500pts, as long as you arent being super competetive.

 

Thousand Sons have roblems with opening transport at range. The AutoLas/TriLas pred is a solid buy. Dropping that means you need another wya of getting lascannons, which is obliterators. They also do horde duty very well.

 

The 20 man unit of CSM is a bit much. split them into 2x10 man, with 2x plasma, or plas/las/auto. for objective holding. You can probably even afford to ditch a few troops to make room for other stuff.

 

Summat like:

 

Ahriman

9 thousand sons, rhino, havoc missile

9 thousand sons, rhino, havoc missile

10 CSM, 2Plasma guns

10 cultists - autoguns

10 cultists - autoguns

10 terminators - heavy flamer, combi flamer. 2 combi plasma, 2 combi melta, 3 combi bolters. chainfist, powerfist, power axe, 3 mauls, 3 swords. Champion has combi plasma/bolter and power axe

Auto/Las predator

Vindicator

 

It's still far from optimised, but Playing Tzeentch, you are playing for the background and gorgeous models and magic anyway!

 

If you can, get another unmarked lvl3 sorcerer in there and take 3 telepathy powers.

[Excessus]

Ally in Tzeentch daemons! A lvl 3 herald with 20 horrors and some flamers and screamers make a nice little force for the Thousand Sons, and don't forget the Spawns! :)

[Dammeron]

Tzeenthc sorcerers actually have some quite effective means of dealing with horde style armies: their generally high body count and low toughness/armour means that powers such as Tzeentch's Firestorm are actually very effective. Horde armies such as Tyranids are also one of the areas where the Icon of Flame has some application: with some clever use and some good luck, it can serve to inflict those few extra wounds just when you need them. It does mean some clever army list building: you have to factor in the inherent costs of Thousand Sons versus their utility: in order to work effectively against horde armies, tou need to A: get maximum use out of the sorcerer and B: use the Thousand Sons to deal with high armour targets, preferably. This means that they need things like cultists, spawn, bikers, baledrakes etc to harry or hamper the enemy; serving as escorts, distractions and body guards to prevent your precious Rubrics from being swamped or eliminated by mass fire power.

 

Allied Tzeentch daemons also work a treat.

[*Furyou Miko]

Anyone else had the thought of Flamer-armed Havocs?

[Excessus]

Problem with that is that we need the HS slots for other purposes, since our main troops can only kill MEQ reliably.

 

Horde armies, such as IG blobs, daemon swarms and nids is one thing, but I have found that Orks are really annoying with their T4. Since loosing against two Ork players in a tournament I always think of Orks when building my lists now(fast vehicles, 2+ saves, T4 horde).

[Furryblueelf]

I run the ever unpopular Chaos Chosen, with 4 flamers and 1 combi-flamer.  I tend to infiltrate them in with Ahriman and unload a few thousand degrees of burn burn on large groups.

So far it has proven semi successful.  Of course I frequently get laughed at for fielding Chosen, but on occasion they have to bite their tongue, and it is very sweet revenge.

[Hellios]

I support the add daemon allies suggestion :D They help help fill in some of the 1ksons many weaknesses.

[Xenith]

I always think of Orks when building my lists now(fast vehicles, 2+ saves, T4 horde).

So, you need a unit that can pop transports at range, one with AP2 weaponry that can get multiple targets, and then something with a multi shot S6 weapon that ignores ork armour.

I sometimes wish there wasnt an obvious 'needs to be in the army' unit.

[Iron_Within]

I would second the chosen with Flamers, for super competitive tournament play they aren't great but for local games with lots of horde they are brilliant, the look on the opponents face when they realise you've just inflicted 30 to 40 hits with a 6 man squad is amazing, especially against units such as boyz or Gargoyles that they are using as bubble wrap for bigger models.

 

Against Orks a Daemon Prince with Wings, power armour, MoT and Black mace is brilliant, challenge out the character, watch the model smoosh the character and watch the boyz die. Not as easy against Hormagaunts where their high attacks and rending will kill it, but the flying will allow it to drop on monstrous creatures which it will usually kill in short order.

 

And yes to the Helldrakes.

[Excessus]

I always think of Orks when building my lists now(fast vehicles, 2+ saves, T4 horde).

So, you need a unit that can pop transports at range, one with AP2 weaponry that can get multiple targets, and then something with a multi shot S6 weapon that ignores ork armour.

I sometimes wish there wasnt an obvious 'needs to be in the army' unit.

Lol, yeah. The obvious unit of "choice" is really just a staple in my lists. When making a TS list I start from Daemon allies>Oblits>Heldrake(s)>the rest...

[Shuggnuggath]

I would add some horrors and a lvl 3 herald with locus of conjuration. Then add some flamers of tzeentch and infiltrate them with master of deception trait.

Tzeentch soul grinders are imo better than the CSM walkers and screamers are also amazing.

[Excessus]

I don't think you can infiltrate jump infantry, but I'm not at home so I don't have the rulebook here to double check it. Though, through an icon flamers can be DS:ed with pinpoint accuracy.

[Shuggnuggath]

Under the Jump section it says that 'jump' is not a classification and is applied to something like 'jump' infantry or 'jump' monstrous creature ect.

 

Master of Deception says d3 infantry units in your army can infiltrate. As Daemons are battle brothers they can benefit from Ahriman's warlord trait.

 

So I'm fairly certain that you can use Ahriman to infiltrate some Flamers of Tzeentch.  I could be mistaken though?

[Xenith]

Yea, I argued that Jump infantry cannot be infiltrated in the chaos forum a little while ago and got fully roundhouse kicked by RAW.

 

I think the power of it is offset by being unable to charge T1

[Architect]

Yeah, no Infiltrating Flamers of Tzeentch. Sorry!

 

Yes to Heldrakes. I use two at 2k and haven't looked back.

 

I also use Ahriman, but putting him with Terminators or Cultists and just sitting there popping Telepathy or Biomancy powers is a waste. Yes, even if you're using Hallucination. You are paying for using 3x Witchfires, so outflank his butt with some Plasma Gun havocs. Even Horde armies are going to have 2+ saves/Light Vehicles/etc. 

 

If you're fighting Hordes, Psychic Shriek/Smite/Flame Breath as a default is absolutely incredible with a unit of Havocs in a Rhino with flamers. Pew Pew.

 

Don't be afraid of demon allies. and don't be afraid to rapid fire + charge a unit of Orks. Also hilarious especially if Enfeebled.