Alternative bikers

[Demus Ragnok]

I've been thinking on building some bikers(black knights). But frankly, I hate the bike models. So...I've been thinking of building a jump pack assault squad with kit bashed weapons to represent them instead.

 

Would anyone have issue with this unit? They will be clearly modeled with the correct wargear, grenade launcher, twin linked plasma guns, bolt pistols and corvus hammers.

 

They would also be the only jump unit in my army.

 

What think ye fraters?

[Balthamal]

I personally wouldn't but I can think of a whole lot of reasons why many would draw the line before this point. Mainly WYSIWYG. Converting infantry/JPs or even as Brother Heinrich has and made a weapons team in place of obliterators isn't too much of a stretch but JPs instead of bikes? Bit too much reaching

[Olis]

Hmm. It'd certainly raise an eyebrow at my club. How would you justify the +1 T for these stand-ins?

 

I far prefer the look of the FW Outriders to regular bikes, myself. Have you considered this option, brother?

[krustydave]

Or try the Scibor Miniatures 28mm SF bikers?

[Demus Ragnok]

Hmm. It'd certainly raise an eyebrow at my club. How would you justify the +1 T for these stand-ins?

 

I far prefer the look of the FW Outriders to regular bikes, myself. Have you considered this option, brother?

+1 toughness on account of this being an elite unit amoung an Iron Hands successor. The entire chapter isn't bionic heavy just veteran units like this.

 

Have considered the forgeworld models. Just haven't made my mind up yet.

[Major_Gilbear]

What about something like these?

 

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b38/The_Hat/DSCF3043.jpg

[Dragon Claw]

One word: Hoverboards (or is that two words? maybe a hyphen? bah!)

 

If it's good enough for Marty McFly, it's good enough for Sergeant Grimface.

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

Saying they're +1T "because they're veteran" probably won't cut it (at least it doesn't sound like a good reason to me - why aren't actual IH vets T5 then?) - but you could do some really cool conversions here along the lines of what was posted above by Dragon Claw. You'd have to ensure the models are on biker bases and are roughly the same height as average biker models, but even then, the fact that jump packs have very clearly defined rules of their own does make this a bit dubious.

 

You could probably do a JET pack conversion using completely different propulsion units - it's just that using actual SM jump packs will confuse people and you'll probably find a fair bit of opposition to the idea.

[Grotsmasha]

Perhaps modelling additional front armour and definitely basing them on bike bases would go along way to assisting your opponent in being ok with them. Personally, I don't game, but wouldn't have a problem with them if they were on the bike bases.

 

Cheers,

Jono

[Demus Ragnok]

Saying they're +1T "because they're veteran" probably won't cut it (at least it doesn't sound like a good reason to me - why aren't actual IH vets T5 then?) - but you could do some really cool conversions here along the lines of what was posted above by Dragon Claw. You'd have to ensure the models are on biker bases and are roughly the same height as average biker models, but even then, the fact that jump packs have very clearly defined rules of their own does make this a bit dubious.

 

You could probably do a JET pack conversion using completely different propulsion units - it's just that using actual SM jump packs will confuse people and you'll probably find a fair bit of opposition to the idea.

T5 because "veterans" have a high percentage of bionics. Bionics being key to the idea here.

Had thought of using bike bases. The alternate jet pack idea sounds good.

I dont understand how a bike makes the stat increase anyway. Just odd in my brain.

 

Grot- the heavier armor is also an idea i had considered.

[Yosef Hausakluif]

Major gilbear, I love the idea behind yuor conversions;

 

What did you use for the cables that suspend those marines off of the ground????

 

I am thinking of doing the same type of conversion for my assault squads, and was wondering is bass strings would suffice?

 

And also, what and where did you get the bits for the ends of those lovely 'Dr. Ock' type legs??? 

 

Sorry, not trying to jack this thread, but have to get an idea of how you pulled this off!

[Toxichobbit]

If you were my regular opponent I assume we'd be mates so i'd be ok with it. It's better than forcing you to use models that you don't like, even if it does result in me making the odd bad decision because in the heat of the battle I think they're jump infantry.

 

If you were a random guy I played at a club/store/tournament, I wouldn't be ok with it. When I look at a Marine equipped with a jump pack, I think jump infantry and all that it entails. I've been thinking that way about Marines with jump packs for 15 years and even if I try not to think that way, I still will when the dice are rolling and i'm more concerned with reacting to what's going on on the table than what each model is a proxy for.

 

Have you considered Marine torsos on tracked units? They aren't completely unknown in the 40k background, i'm pretty certain that I remember Rogue Trader having artwork of one and it may have even made it into 2nd ed as well. It's not so different to the reasoning for bionic legs, but instead of the legs the Marine has tracks. It helps explain the increased mobility (although the idea of a torso on tracks turbo boosting is amusingly silly) and helps with the +1T as they are quite obviously more machine than Marine. You could even make Marine versions of Johnny 5, complete with shoulder mounted twin-linked bolters and mohawks :p.

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

 

Saying they're +1T "because they're veteran" probably won't cut it (at least it doesn't sound like a good reason to me - why aren't actual IH vets T5 then?) - but you could do some really cool conversions here along the lines of what was posted above by Dragon Claw. You'd have to ensure the models are on biker bases and are roughly the same height as average biker models, but even then, the fact that jump packs have very clearly defined rules of their own does make this a bit dubious.

 

You could probably do a JET pack conversion using completely different propulsion units - it's just that using actual SM jump packs will confuse people and you'll probably find a fair bit of opposition to the idea.

T5 because "veterans" have a high percentage of bionics. Bionics being key to the idea here.

Had thought of using bike bases. The alternate jet pack idea sounds good.

I dont understand how a bike makes the stat increase anyway. Just odd in my brain.

 

Grot- the heavier armor is also an idea i had considered.

 

You would have to use bike bases. It would be a tremendous advantage to have counts-as bikes on smaller bases (you can maneuver more freely, fit more into combat for Hammer of Wrath, and avoid blast templates more easily) and now GW's made it a prerequisite for models to use the bases with which they are packaged...

 

Aside from that, justify it however you like. I think some kind of exoskeleton with a jetpack would work better than a Marine with a jetpack to be honest, but just my two quid :)

[Bryan Blaire]

I would think you'd need to be relatively forgiving to account for the true line-of-sight differences as well, perhaps telling your opponent and remembering yourself that a bike would be visible in the front 1/4 and back 1/4 of the base as well, so if that amount is exposed, the substitute model is visible.

[zxyogi]

What about these from Puppetswar?

http://puppetswar.eu/product.php?id_product=205

http://puppetswar.eu/product.php?id_product=93

[MagicMan]

You could just not use them if you don't like the models.

[Demus Ragnok]

I would think you'd need to be relatively forgiving to account for the true line-of-sight differences as well, perhaps telling your opponent and remembering yourself that a bike would be visible in the front 1/4 and back 1/4 of the base as well, so if that amount is exposed, the substitute model is visible.

Perhaps model terrain or some much on the base to the approximate size of a bike in addition to the infantry model.

[Demus Ragnok]

You could just not use them if you don't like the models.

Your insight is shocking there MM.

 

So Death Wing Knights it is then!

[Olgerth Istaarn]

Jetbikes is what I have. I have a handful that I converted myself, then there's the GW penisbike, Chapterhouse fishes of doom, and Puppetswar jetbike which looks somewhat like the Heresy-era outriders. Hate the wheels? Hover instead. Much better IMO.

[Molokai]

How can you not dig the legion outrider models? Heresy!

[Grotsmasha]

If you're considering Jetbikes, I'm partial to Kromlech's Iron Shark jetbike. Don't forget Machinator's three as well.

 

Cheers,

Jono

[Olgerth Istaarn]

If you're considering Jetbikes, I'm partial to Kromlech's Iron Shark jetbike. Don't forget Machinator's three as well.

 

Cheers,

Jono

 

But Machinator quit a while ago, these bikes are gone for good I heard.

[Brother Heinrich]

You could probably get away with some kind of hover-board or something, but my general rule with counts-as is that I try to limit the amount of explaining I have to do as much as possible. With the Obliterator teams I'm doing they have 50mm bases, a bunch of weird heavy weapons, as well as a power fist in each team. I can point to them and go, "these are Obliterators with Mark of Nurgle" and know that my opponent will go, "Oh okay, cool." When I set out a unit that looks nothing remotely like what it's supposed to represent and I have to go, "This is a vindicator, but it's not actually a vindicator, it's my chapters variant that looks a lot like a dreadnought, but isn't because the don't believe in tracked vehicles, however it uses the rules for tracked vehicles and this assault cannon isn't an assault cannon, it's actually a demolisher cannon, but I like to imagine that the rate of fire is so much that rules-wise it acts like a demolisher cannon, blah, blah, blah.."

 

See my point? Counts-as is all fine and dandy as it allows us to match the vision we have in our head of 40k with what we can do on the tabletop and in-game. But there is a point where the stretch is too much. Namely if you're trying to to count a sentinel walker as a valkyrie.

[Kaedes Nex]

Just use the bike bases and anyone with a brain will know what they are.

 

I wouldn't try it at tournaments though.

[Bungicats]

Saying they're +1T "because they're veteran" probably won't cut it (at least it doesn't sound like a good reason to me - why aren't actual IH vets T5 then?) - but you could do some really cool conversions here along the lines of what was posted above by Dragon Claw. You'd have to ensure the models are on biker bases and are roughly the same height as average biker models, but even then, the fact that jump packs have very clearly defined rules of their own does make this a bit dubious.

You could probably do a JET pack conversion using completely different propulsion units - it's just that using actual SM jump packs will confuse people and you'll probably find a fair bit of opposition to the idea.

T5 because "veterans" have a high percentage of bionics. Bionics being key to the idea here.

Had thought of using bike bases. The alternate jet pack idea sounds good.

I dont understand how a bike makes the stat increase anyway. Just odd in my brain.

Grot- the heavier armor is also an idea i had considered.

You would have to use bike bases. It would be a tremendous advantage to have counts-as bikes on smaller bases (you can maneuver more freely, fit more into combat for Hammer of Wrath, and avoid blast templates more easily) and now GW's made it a prerequisite for models to use the bases with which they are packaged...

Aside from that, justify it however you like. I think some kind of exoskeleton with a jetpack would work better than a Marine with a jetpack to be honest, but just my two quid

Say it ain't so...please? What happens to players who use horses or other fantasy models in 40K. Maybe this is only at GW tournaments (aka they are actually running it?). I saw more than my fair share of "count as bikers" at nova this year using calvary models? Which imho is an interesting option but just about as boring as jet bikes or regular motor pickles.