Triumph at Ullanor

[cablefan]

In need of the collective knowledge of this wonderful board.  When would be a fair date for the Triumph at Ullanor? I've done a decent amount of looking into this and have the following:

 

- Sometime end of M30 - Start M31

 

- Approximately the 200th year of the Great Crusade

I get this from one of the early HH books (might even be Horus Rising) where they state it's the 203rd year of the Great Crusade and the Triumph at Ullanor was still ringing in their ears....or something to that effect.

 

- Approximately 5 - 7 years before Horus enters the Delphos and 8 - 10 years before Isstvan III

This is from calculating the dates mentioned in the HH series

 

So basically, does anyone have any info that could help in setting a fairly solid date?

 

i.e. When did the Great Crusade start?

How long did the Ullanor Crusade take?

 

etc etc

 

Looking forward to any responses I can get!

 

[Olis]

The Triumph at Ullanor is dated exactly 000.M31, as per Forge World's HH book Massacre. 

[cablefan]

Really?! Haha well that makes things easy.  Would it be safe to assume that's the 200th year of the Great Crusade as well, because that would just be oh so very tidy.

[Hyaenidae]

Depends, it's gets a bit shady there. We don't really know when the Unification War began, or exactly how long it took, or the war on Luna, or the entire Sol system, etc, which adds a very large potential time period to it.

[Conn Eremon]

Sadly, Massacre only gives a timeline as far back as 964.M30, when Monarchia burns.

[cablefan]

So that's roughly 36 years before ullanor. Might have to re-read the word bearer Hh books to see if there's a rough timeline from then. Does massacre stay broadly at years or does it go into the 1000 "days" system too? Also what other events are on the timeline? Isstvan III or Horus entering the Delphos?

[Hyaenidae]

Quite a few events, man. Anything specific you're looking for? Otherwise, you're gonna need to wait for someone more ambitious to come by here, lol.

[facmanpob]

This is from Laurie Goulding, editor at BL, via another forum. Hope it is of use:

Much of this has not yet been covered, but I can give authoritative answers on the following:

 

- The beginning of the Great Crusade, to reconquer the galaxy and find the Primarchs

 

798.M30 was the beginning of the Great Crusade. This is taking the 203rd year of the Great Crusade into account at the beginning of 'Horus Rising', and that being one year after the Triumph at Ullanor, going by 'Scars' and 'A Thousand Sons'.

 

- The loss of the II and XI legions and their associated Primarchs

 

This occurred sometime after 981.M30 since all twenty of the primarchs are known to have met one another, and Alpharius was the last to be found.

 

- The Council of Nikaea and the Chaplain Edict

 

This is in 001.M31 - roughly a year after Ullanor. Remember that Chaplains were already in use before this, but the Edict made it law.

 

I looked through the various battles too and noticed there are no date stamps for those so it's just an alphabetical mess rather than chronological order.

 

You didn't list any, but here are the dates that we know for things beginning:

 

Prospero - 004.M31 and into 005

Isstvan III - end of 005.M31, into 006

Isstvan V - 566.006.M31

Chondax - 108.007.M31

Calth - mid-007.M31

Terra - 213.014.M31

[Conn Eremon]

005 to 014 is eight to nine years long. Either the dates are a bit off, or the official beginning of the Heresy was not Isstvan III. Or the Heresy was extended another year or two.

[facmanpob]

I thought it was the Age of Darkness that was 7 years long, rather than the entire Heresy itself.

[Kol Saresk]

The Heresy series began 005.M31 with Horus Rising. Two years later, the actual Heresy begins and then we get the 7 years of the Heresy, making the series nine years long. Or at least that is how it was explained to me on the Facebook page.

 

Although the kink in that explanation gets thrown in there with things like Descent of Angels and The First Heretic which go way back when a coke was a coke and crack's what you were doing when you were cracking jokes. Oh, the explanation from Laurie Goulding kills that one too.

 

So if I had to guess, Istvaan III doesn't count and Istvaan V is the start of the Heresy and it's "seven" years because it doesn't hit the full "eight" year mark, going by the exact days listed.

[AlabasterKnight]

<sup>"- The loss of the II and XI legions and their associated Primarchs

This occurred sometime after 981.M30 since all twenty of the primarchs are known to have met one another, and Alpharius was the last to be found." -</sup>

 

^{Um... how is this possible since Corax specifically was told by the Emperor that he had Seventeen brothers eager to meet him?}

[Balthamal]

^{"- The loss of the II and XI legions and their associated Primarchs}

 

This occurred sometime after 981.M30 since all twenty of the primarchs are known to have met one another, and Alpharius was the last to be found." -

 

^{Um... how is this possible since Corax specifically was told by the Emperor that he had Seventeen brothers eager to meet him?}

 

Because Corax wasn't the last to be found? If the two were already gone that would have made him last

[AlabasterKnight]

 

^{"- The loss of the II and XI legions and their associated Primarchs}

 

This occurred sometime after 981.M30 since all twenty of the primarchs are known to have met one another, and Alpharius was the last to be found." -

 

^{Um... how is this possible since Corax specifically was told by the Emperor that he had Seventeen brothers eager to meet him?}

 

Because Corax wasn't the last to be found? If the two were already gone that would have made him last

 

That is the point. He was the XIX and questioned why the Emperor told him there were only seventeen to meet... and Alpharius was the last (XX)...

[Balthamal]

 

 

^{"- The loss of the II and XI legions and their associated Primarchs}

 

This occurred sometime after 981.M30 since all twenty of the primarchs are known to have met one another, and Alpharius was the last to be found." -

 

^{Um... how is this possible since Corax specifically was told by the Emperor that he had Seventeen brothers eager to meet him?}

 

Because Corax wasn't the last to be found? If the two were already gone that would have made him last

 

That is the point. He was the XIX and questioned why the Emperor told him there were only seventeen to meet... and Alpharius was the last (XX)...

 

Sorry I didn't convey it very well. If we take what the Emperor is saying to be true and also the fact that all twenty met each other then that would make Corax the 18th to be discovered. If indeed the 2 mysterious Primarchs had been "dispensed" with then there would have been 15 brothers eager to meet him. Alpharius is last so if we remove the 2 Primarchs then he would have 17 brothers eager to meet him if that makes sense. 

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

^{"- The loss of the II and XI legions and their associated Primarchs}

 

This occurred sometime after 981.M30 since all twenty of the primarchs are known to have met one another, and Alpharius was the last to be found." -

 

^{Um... how is this possible since Corax specifically was told by the Emperor that he had Seventeen brothers eager to meet him?}

 

Because Corax wasn't the last to be found? If the two were already gone that would have made him last

 

 

The problem is the tone where Corax asks about two of his brothers and the reply was "I... don't feel like talking about them right. Some other time, when the mood isn't so happy."

 

It gives the impression two were already lost and that Alpharius was just waiting to be "officially" found.

 

Of course, the impression it gives is apparently misleading as it was supposed to mean "Oh, well... you do have nineteen brothers. We just haven't found the other two yet."

 

But the date is subject to change as that is the date that Alpharius took command and we know from The First Heretic that Monarchia was after the Heresy and that

Ahhh... you've just reminded me of something.

 

Alpharius was shown around a bit, after he was discovered but before being put in charge of the XX Legion. Therefore, we can assume that the "few decades" date thrown about in 'Legion' refers to how long he's been in charge, not when he was found. wink.gif

 

Interesting. Leave that with me.

 

(Of course, we're assuming that Alpharius didn't meet some of this brothers BEFORE his official discovery...) ninja.gif

(Original Post found HERE)

[AlabasterKnight]

The Primarch Corvus Corax of the Raven Guard recalls his first meeting with his father, the Emperor:

(Emperor) "You and your brothers were taken from me by denizens of the Warp before you were ready."

"Brothers?" Corvus was excited by the prospect, pushing aside the questions that the Emperor's answer had prompted. Though he had made many friends amongst the prisoners of Lycaeus, always Corvus had been aware of his otherness, and when they had started to call him Saviour any hope of normal relationships had ended. That there were others like him filled Corvus with hope again.

"Yes, you have brothers," said the Emperor, smiling at His son's delight.

"Seventeen of them. You are the Primarchs, my finest creations."

"Seventeen?" Corvus asked, confused. "I remember that I was number nineteen. How can that be so?"

The Emperor's expression grew bleak, filled with deep sorrow. He looked away as he replied.

"The other two," he said. "That is a conversation for another day."

 

 

 

 

At this point Alpharius had not been found, and the lost two were already fated prior to Corax being found.

 

[Balthamal]

If that's come straight from Deliverence Lost then Gav has just been spanked with the retcon bat

[Kol Saresk]

It is. And going by the conversation on First Expedition, it won't be retconned because it's just "misunderstood".

[Demus Ragnok]

Two questions

 

Was corax the nintenth found?

 

And is the raven guard the nintenth legion?

[Kol Saresk]

Corax is the eighteenth Primarch found, the nineteenth made and is the Primarch of the nineteenth Legion.

 

One of the lost Primarchs was the nineteenth found and Alpharius is lucky number twenty all around.

[Conn Eremon]

I believe Alpharius and Dorn are the only ones who were found in the same order as their number.

[Demus Ragnok]

Corax is the eighteenth Primarch found, the nineteenth made and is the Primarch of the nineteenth Legion.

 

One of the lost Primarchs was the nineteenth found and Alpharius is lucky number twenty all around.

Thanks. There is post somewhere with the found in order list. But i couldn't find it.

[Conn Eremon]

Both 40k wikis have it. Otherwise, a google of Primarch Discovery Order will lead you to the original forum pretty quickly.

[Kol Saresk]

Out of curiosity, I know it's BL's "official" list and all, but has it actually been published yet?