Help fine tuning a list

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Wolf Brothers!

Soon I will be having a battle (fun game) against my best friend and the man who got me into Warhammer. He showed me the models, and I was hooked, sadly we have never had the pleasure of gaming against each other.. the time now is at hand.

As you can imagine, I want to crush him! For Russ, the all-father, and for the glory of the Space Wolves Chapter! He has said that he's beaten Space Wolves in the past, and isn't too concerned about them... I plan to make him pay for his insolence. As a young and feisty Blood Claw, I would like you guys to check out my list and let me know what I may be over looking or lacking. Point limit is 1500 pts. My opponent will be playing Tau with Blood Angel allies (something happened to his model collection he he has had to start over, which is why his list is so random) Other than that, I have never played against Tau, I know for the BAs he'll be taking at least two ten man squads of Assault Marines. I think he plans on making use of a Riptide. One of my advantages is I've played quite a few 6th edition matches and he's yet to play in this edition. Enough of the chatter, here is the list

HQ: 

Rune Priest (130pts)
CoTS, JoTWW, LL, Runic Weapon (axe)

Wolf Lord (260pts)

Runic Armor, Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer, Thunderwolf Mount, Saga of the Bear

 

Elites:

Wolf Guard Pack (278pts)

Drop Pod

4x Power Armor
Power fist, 1x Combi-Plasma, 3x Combi-Flamer

2x TDAWG

Powerfist, Combi-Plasma, Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer

 

Troops:

 

Grey Hunters Pack 1 (175pts)
Drop Pod
7x Grey Hunters
Plasma gun, MoTW, Standard

Grey Hunters Pack 2 (115pts)
Drop Pod

7x Grey Hunters
Plasma gun

Gry Hunters Pack 3 (195pts)
Drop Pod
10x Grey Hunters
Metla gun (Melta gun)

 

Fast Attack:

Thunder Wolf Cavalry
2x Bolt Pistol, 2x CCW

 

Heavy Support:

Long Fangs 1
3x Missile Launcher

Long Fangs 2
2 Lascannon
1Missile Launcher

Total (1498pts)


 

 

 

 

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

Here are a few things I would look at:

 

You have an even number of drop pods, therefor 2 will go down turn one. If you had the points to fit another Pod into the list then 3 would come down and you'd have more dudes on the table.

 

A cheaper way to escort a TWL around is a pack of Fenrisian Wolves. If you dropped the 2 TWC then you'd have points to spend on some of the suggestions made that you like. Just sayin...

 

Your Long Fangs packs are sad looking. I'm unsure if its a points things or a model availability thing, but the more the merrier!! Also, if you keep those numbers, then at least put a Las Cannon in each pack so that they stick around a little longer.

 

I'm not sure what you're doing with your Wolf Guard, but adding a heavy into the pack could be good for you. A Flamer for the GH pack killing the troops, or a CML to accompany some LF's.

 

Hope that help's!!

 

End of Line

[Valerian]

"Rune Priest (130pts)

CoTS, JoTWW, LL, Runic Weapon (axe)"

 

This guy is too expensive; is he supposed to have Runic Armour? Also, there is no such thing as a Runic Weapon (axe); a Runic Weapon is an Unusual Force Weapon, so all of them have the same stats (S: as user and AP: 3).

 

V

[Bloody Legionnaire]

 

"Rune Priest (130pts)
CoTS, JoTWW, LL, Runic Weapon (axe)"

This guy is too expensive; is he supposed to have Runic Armour? Also, there is no such thing as a Runic Weapon (axe); a Runic Weapon is an Unusual Force Weapon, so all of them have the same stats (S: as user and AP: 3).

V

yes he is supposed to have Runic Armor. Just read the rule book wrong, and was basing it off of how the model is modeled. Reading the codex entry for runic weapons helped.

Here are a few things I would look at:

You have an even number of drop pods, therefor 2 will go down turn one. If you had the points to fit another Pod into the list then 3 would come down and you'd have more dudes on the table.

A cheaper way to escort a TWL around is a pack of Fenrisian Wolves. If you dropped the 2 TWC then you'd have points to spend on some of the suggestions made that you like. Just sayin...

Your Long Fangs packs are sad looking. I'm unsure if its a points things or a model availability thing, but the more the merrier!! Also, if you keep those numbers, then at least put a Las Cannon in each pack so that they stick around a little longer.

I'm not sure what you're doing with your Wolf Guard, but adding a heavy into the pack could be good for you. A Flamer for the GH pack killing the troops, or a CML to accompany some LF's.

Hope that help's!!

End of Line

Ya, I figured I would wait a few replies before I talked strategy. While three Drop Pods coming in on turn one would be steller.. I don't have the extra points as you can see, and I don't own another drop pod to use unfortunately. Before I realized the merits of using a DP list, I always took one DP to come in on turn one loaded with PAWG and TDAWG that were designed to drop close to the enemy and either blow up something big and nasty, or to draw fire for a turn or two. They have always been pretty successful for me. I figured that 3 PAWGS with combi-flamers going right out of a pod would be able to cause a lot of wounds. While not all of those wounds will remove models from play... there should be just as many, if not more, as you would get from bolter, melta, or plasma fire. The TDAWGS are their to soak up some fire and will hopefully be charged. The combi-melta and melta gunners in Pack 3 are there to take down whatever large nasty target my opponent may have.

Purpose of the small LF squads is more points than models. I figured against a list with Tau and BA's in a lower point game, that a smaller squad of LFs should be able to put in plenty of work. If not, I guess I could drop the Runic Armor from the Rune Priest and maybe find some points elsewhere in order to beef the Long Fangs up a little.

I do agree with you about the heavy, now that I know tau have such low strength, using a assault cannon for instakills will be nice.

Other than that, do you think it looks pretty good?

also, I don't own any fenrisian wolves.. maybe I could get some and try that. We wont be battling till they get to where I am, this Thanksgiving.

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

If you drop the two TWC you have all kinds of points (not really) for Fen Wolves, upgrades, more pods, etc...

 

2 pods turn one is still going to be good.

 

I would really suggest that you get a Las Cannon into each LF pack though!!

 

End of Line

[logun]

i know its hard when your limited on what you can take but maybe drop the wolf lord and just take him as a standard wolf cav which would save you 150pts. he will still wreck some face.

 

i have been having some pretty good success of late with a mix of distraction pods/lone wolfs and a rhino/thunder cav rush. my first two pods were a four man WG with combi meltas, and a dread with twin linked flamer plus a heavy flamer, along with a couple of TDA lone wolves with sheilds rushing out in plain veiw has left my cav and rhinos completely untouched by the time they reach the other deployment zone. just have a play around with it. try not to spend to much on those Alpha strike units, and get the biggest bang for your buck while sowing confusion in the front lines.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

i know its hard when your limited on what you can take but maybe drop the wolf lord and just take him as a standard wolf cav which would save you 150pts. he will still wreck some face.

 

i have been having some pretty good success of late with a mix of distraction pods/lone wolfs and a rhino/thunder cav rush. my first two pods were a four man WG with combi meltas, and a dread with twin linked flamer plus a heavy flamer, along with a couple of TDA lone wolves with sheilds rushing out in plain veiw has left my cav and rhinos completely untouched by the time they reach the other deployment zone. just have a play around with it. try not to spend to much on those Alpha strike units, and get the biggest bang for your buck while sowing confusion in the front lines.

Thanks for the advice bud. I have just become very attached to my Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf, he is very hard to deal with, and I like that.. a lot. Regular thunder cav car good, I just feel like they lack a bit. I don't know where else I would get some punch into the list. 

 

I do have a few more points to work with now.. point limit has been raised to 2k. Which means he's really going to be trying to kit things out to get up there... which I will definitely take to my advantage. 

[Denison512]

I used to take a TWC Lord with escorting cav but then i tried 3 Cav with SS's and a TH with a Lord with Fen Wolves and they wreck SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much face in comparison to the old unit set up i had. Having 2 big threatening units is great as they won't be able to take out both before your woof woofs are eating their faces. 

 

Just taking 2 Cav doesn't really cut it and throwing in the lord makes a good deathstar but it just puts all your eggs in one basket which is what a Tau player with a riptide wants you to do with those tasty blast weapons :P

 

Otherwise a good list in my opinion

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I used to take a TWC Lord with escorting cav but then i tried 3 Cav with SS's and a TH with a Lord with Fen Wolves and they wreck SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much face in comparison to the old unit set up i had. Having 2 big threatening units is great as they won't be able to take out both before your woof woofs are eating their faces.

Just taking 2 Cav doesn't really cut it and throwing in the lord makes a good deathstar but it just puts all your eggs in one basket which is what a Tau player with a riptide wants you to do with those tasty blast weapons

Otherwise a good list in my opinion

If I had the models, I would run it like that, but unfortunately I do not. If there is a Riptide on the board, it wont be there for long, my Wolf Guard and GH Pack 3 will melt that sucker down to nothing. I plan on keep my wolves out of LOS as much as possible as I move em up the board into CC. Does Tau have alot of ignoring cover weaponry?

[logun]

I used to take a TWC Lord with escorting cav but then i tried 3 Cav with SS's and a TH with a Lord with Fen Wolves and they wreck SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much face in comparison to the old unit set up i had. Having 2 big threatening units is great as they won't be able to take out both before your woof woofs are eating their faces.

Just taking 2 Cav doesn't really cut it and throwing in the lord makes a good deathstar but it just puts all your eggs in one basket which is what a Tau player with a riptide wants you to do with those tasty blast weapons

Otherwise a good list in my opinion

If I had the models, I would run it like that, but unfortunately I do not. If there is a Riptide on the board, it wont be there for long, my Wolf Guard and GH Pack 3 will melt that sucker down to nothing. I plan on keep my wolves out of LOS as much as possible as I move em up the board into CC. Does Tau have alot of ignoring cover weaponry?

people can give their riptide interceptor though, so be very careful about podding around them. they can take you out as your feet hit the ground

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I used to take a TWC Lord with escorting cav but then i tried 3 Cav with SS's and a TH with a Lord with Fen Wolves and they wreck SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much face in comparison to the old unit set up i had. Having 2 big threatening units is great as they won't be able to take out both before your woof woofs are eating their faces.

Just taking 2 Cav doesn't really cut it and throwing in the lord makes a good deathstar but it just puts all your eggs in one basket which is what a Tau player with a riptide wants you to do with those tasty blast weapons

Otherwise a good list in my opinion

If I had the models, I would run it like that, but unfortunately I do not. If there is a Riptide on the board, it wont be there for long, my Wolf Guard and GH Pack 3 will melt that sucker down to nothing. I plan on keep my wolves out of LOS as much as possible as I move em up the board into CC. Does Tau have alot of ignoring cover weaponry?

people can give their riptide interceptor though, so be very careful about podding around them. they can take you out as your feet hit the ground

How does that rule work? I was trying to read up about it, but couldn't find much. What about using a unit of Wolf Scouts with melta bombs to take out a riptide? I'm sure two Units of Long Fangs would be able to put a dent in it if not the Pods.

[Valerian]

Interceptor is in the rule book as one of the basic special rules. How it works is pretty clear.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Appreciate it Valerian, I thought it might have been a Tau Specific special rule, I'll look it up. Would it be best to just deploy outside the range of the unit with the rule then? 

[dothac83]

I'd replace your current Wolf Lord with Logan, it'll give you better buffs

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

So what does your amended list look like now prey_fall2_the_grey??

 

End of Line

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I'd replace your current Wolf Lord with Logan, it'll give you better buffs

I disagree, Logan is more expensive, less mobile, and with the belt of russ being only a 4+ invuln save... I'd take the Storm Shield every time. The only Merit is Logan lets the WG count as troops and I'm really not that worried about it. 

[Bloody Legionnaire]

 

So what does your amended list look like now prey_fall2_the_grey??

End of Line

haha, I haven't tried to modify it, been a busy weekend. The LFs will have more units. I will probably (buy) and add another DP for another unit of DP Wolves. I would really like to Drop a Dreadnought in with the first strike wave of WG and GH Pack 3... but I don't know if that would be a wise decision or not. I watched a battle report with Space Wolves online and saw the benefits lots and lots of flamers can have against an enemy out of pods. If not I can put the points somewhere else.

I would definitely kit out the TDAWGS a little better, and will definitely throw a Assault Cannon in their.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Updated list for 2,000 pts

HQ:
Rune Priest
Power Armor, Runic Weapon, CoTS, (opinions on best psychic powers vs Tau, I am thinking LL and JoTWW)

Wolf Lord Runic Armor, Saga of the Bear, Thunder Wolf Mount, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield

Elites:
3x TDAWG, 2x Assault Cannons, Power Fist, Combi Plasma, Chainfist, Storm Shield

7x PAWG, 2x Combi Plasma, 2x Combi-Melta, 3x Combi-Flamer, Powerfist Drop Pod

Troops:
Grey Hunter Pack 1
9x Grey Hunters, Plasma Gun, Power Fist, Standard, MoTW Drop Pod

Grey Hunter Pack 2
7x Grey Hunters, Plasma Gun Drop Pod

Grey Hunter Pack 3
8x Grey Hunters, Plasma Gun Drop Pod

Grey Hunters Pack 4
10x Grey Hunters, 2x Meltagun Drop Pod

FA:
2x TWC Wolf Claw

HS:
Long Fang Pack 1
Pack Leader
5x Missile Launcher

Long Fang Pack 2
Pack Leader
2x Lascannon 2x Missile Launcher

Total: 1925

Two Wolf Guard from the Wold Guard Unit will be used as Pack Leaders for Grey Hunters Packs 1 and 2. I don't know what I want to do with the remaining points. I could beef up one of my GH packs, or I could trim up some points and try to get another DP with 3 PAWG all combi weapons. The Idea is to drop in With the Wolf Guard Drop Pod and Grey Hunter Pack 3 and 4 fairly close to the Enemy Units. Apparently playing Tau is like playing IG and it's best to not sit back and let them shoot me. So I'm going to try and be pretty aggressive from the start. Apparently, he's changes his list up a bit and is going to be taking Blood Angels as the main force and Tau as the Allies. There will be one Riptide present, he hasn't gotten me his list yet so I don't quite know what the Blood Angels are going to look like. The Riptide wont take an assault very well, so thats how I plan on disposing of it. I am going to try and keep the TWC and Lord out of sight and move them up the board. This is a much better list than I had previously. Questions.. Should I have the Rune Priest drop in with the initial Waves of Drop pods? It would be nice to have him up close for a JoTWW strike. If not I could drop him with the rest of the pods in more of a defensive/objective taking strike. Let me know what you guys think of the Wargear and what not.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

A portion of my opponents list. He has not figured out what he wants for his Tau Allied Detachment yet. I am thinking about taking a second Rune Priest for lots of psychic shooty

"x2 librarian
x2 jump packs

x2 honor guard
each squad has 2 plasma and 2 melta

10 assault marines
2 plasma guns

10 assault marines
2 melta guns

x2 furioso dreads
Both have the librarian upgrade

That's my blood angels portion"

So, I think the main headaches are going to come from the Furiosos and the Riptide... I have a Blood Angels Codex (Thankfully) So I'll at least will be able to know half my enemy. 

Update with Tau allied detachment.

"Tau commander iridium armor weapons are tbd drone controller x2 ML drones

Riptide w/ ion accelerator

10 fire warriors 4 drones"

[Bloody Legionnaire]

No responders? 

[Sigvard]

Hail brother!

 

First question -  Why have you gone for a 7 man unit of WG when you have not taken full squads of Grey Hunters, they are cheap efficient, with free special weapon upgrades and adding the Wolf Banner makes them an exceptional choice. I would drop the PAWG and increase your numbers.

 

Secondly Tau are able to field stuff that will rip your Wolves to shreds when there are only going to be 3+ saves and your Thunder Lord cannot be the only thing to protect you in that unit he is too valuable. I would find the point a the very least to give them another storm shield.

 

Finally the amount of High Priority targets he is field may well be a problem.

Potentially 4 Librarians from the Blood Angels is going to make your Rune Priest struggle to earn his keep, another priest would offer another layer of runic weapon protection (take it while it lasts we won't have it forever) and also allow you to have answers to the pretty terrifying Blood Angels psyker powers.

I wish you well brother, my next game is against Blood Angels so let us do Russ proud.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Hail brother!

 

First question -  Why have you gone for a 7 man unit of WG when you have not taken full squads of Grey Hunters, they are cheap efficient, with free special weapon upgrades and adding the Wolf Banner makes them an exceptional choice. I would drop the PAWG and increase your numbers.

 

Secondly Tau are able to field stuff that will rip your Wolves to shreds when there are only going to be 3+ saves and your Thunder Lord cannot be the only thing to protect you in that unit he is too valuable. I would find the point a the very least to give them another storm shield.

 

Finally the amount of High Priority targets he is field may well be a problem.

Potentially 4 Librarians from the Blood Angels is going to make your Rune Priest struggle to earn his keep, another priest would offer another layer of runic weapon protection (take it while it lasts we won't have it forever) and also allow you to have answers to the pretty terrifying Blood Angels psyker powers.

 

I wish you well brother, my next game is against Blood Angels so let us do Russ proud.

May the Fangs of the Wolf be with you, as well, Wolf Brother!

 

I just freed up some points last night and fit another Rune priest in for that very reason.

 

The reason for the 10 man squad of WG is for the 2 special weapons I'll have from that Drop Pod. Wave one will have 3 Drop Pods coming on the board and hopefully in the enemy's face. I am thinking 17 Grey Hunters and 10 Wolf Guard will be quite the force to be reckoned with especially when you consider there will be two Assault Cannon WG coming out of one pod. Also, I really thinking all of the combi fire on that turn will put a good dent in whatever force I come into contact with. He's said he'll be castling around his Riptide... the Blood Angels will be a different story, but smacking that thing right in the face, in my opinion, is the best move to make. I do plan on being super aggressive this game. 

 

Another reason is for the price of the WG I don't think I could form 2 full units of Grey Hunters with Special weapons. I'll crunch some numbers though. One random question. When the Drop Pods come in, can I then break off the WG from the WG unit and attach them to GHs? In that case if I had 2 full 10 man squads I would just break the WG off and attach them when they came in.. would be a good way to have a WG lead and not have to worry about 11 men not fitting in a transport.

 

The Wolf Lord Deathstar unit is pretty risky, I agree. But I have used him long enough to realize running up the board isn't going to work. He will got shot up and blasted. The plan is while my first wave of pods is causing all kinds of havoc, have the TWC unit move up slowly in cover and then get into CC when opportunity arises. If I have to delete him, I guess I could, or maybe just the TWC unit to free up points for something else. I am fairly confident in the ability to run the Lord by himself as long as I can keep him out of LOS. Maybe one day when I have more models I'll run him in a thick Fenrisian shield, but for now it's all I got and it's worked quite well. 

 

I will work on that Storm shield. 

 

Is the general consensus that the 2nd Assault cannon and large unit of Combi-Weapon PAWGs are not worth it?

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Since joining this forum I have learned an adage that has guided all my list building since. And that is "boys before toys"

 

Think you would be better off with a pod of 5 tda wolf guard with combis and a cml pack leader for your fangs. 7 krak missiles should mop up those dreads without too much trouble.

 

I also would scrap the deathstar on favor of a third rune priest and another pod of grey hunters and maybe buy a pod on the longfangs to get an odd number. I think more pods in his face will wreck tau better than the 3 model deathstar unit. Though that is based on only one game against tau so others more experienced might say otherwise. Plus 3 rune priest will make his psykers pretty useless.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

jbickd

If I had more troops and drop pods, I would. I only have 3 drop pods right now, I'll have a 4th by the time we do the game. 

I'll definitely look at redoing the WG and will see how many points I can free up from that. I'll try to build the squads of GHs back up and see what can how many Wolf Standards I can get. I really hate that you pay 10 pts for it and can only use it once, but I guess if you're having a TDAWG leading you Grey Hunter packs it makes him awfully resilient.

Another Rune Priest would be pretty sweet! I am thinking maybe I could Drop the Wolf Lord in exchange for another Rune Priest, and then just have a Unit of 3 TWC, which are still pretty good. I've Also considered the possibility of Running my Wolf Lord by himself. In the past he's wrecked a lot of face on his own after the other two TWC died. 

I've never played Tau before, but I am not too worried about them other than the Riptide.. unless there is something I am missing the units he's bringing for his allied detachment don't seem too scary. All the librarians will be a problem unless I have adequate protection from my Rune Priest. I'll crunch some numbers and see what I come up with. 

I'm pretty confident though. I know I'll physically have more troops than him on the board, I also know he hasn't played a 6th edition game before.. I'll have to take advantage of that ;)

[Sigvard]

Brother I understand your love of PAWG

 

As much as I love Wolf Guard in power armour they are just not as efficient as their Grey Hunter brothers. Yes you can rack of alot of Combi-Weapons but that is a alot of point for a 1 hit wonder with only a 3+ Save. I tend to find if I am going to be running WG they will be my deathstar and kitted out with TDA. I run them as a deep field wreck face unit usually with Arjac heading up the assault and popping tanks with Mjolnir Mk.2.

 

I also think the 3rd Rune Priest would be a good idea, Blood Angels really do have access to some fearsome powers, Blood Lance for starters is evil!!