Various races threat matrix?

[Paulie771]

Hey everyone, new player here.  I've gotten a few games under my belt with my Dark Angels and I've been told in every game that my target priority is wrong.  However, being a new player, I have no idea what various armies strong and weak units are.  

 

Is there anywhere that I can see a visual or spreadsheet or something that shows each race and how each unit ranks in threat level or danger?  I know a lot of it is situational, but from what I can tell, most experienced players know that if unit A, K, and Z are on the table, unit A is the most dangerous and to kill it first.  

 

So, any help?

[helterskelter]

Your priorities should be your objectives and attaining them. Not every game requires you to annihilate your enemy completely just the units that are getting in your way.

[Naminé]

When I started out, I tended to work on the idea that killing troops is the best place to start, but before you can do that, you need to work out HOW to kill them.

From there, look at what there is in your opponent's army that can prevent your unit from killing his troops.

That is your target priority.

 

If in doubt, try to remove his faster units first, since reduced mobility will grant you more time and space to react once his real plan reveals itself.

[spu00sed]

If it moves, shoot it.

 

If it doesn't move, shoot it anyway.

 

If they still twitch nuke them from orbit.

[Kuchinawa]

Use you're elite to clear the way. Troops attempt to follow and provide fire support, they then sit and hold objectives. Shoot things that want your objectives. Take the ones you can lock down and don't try to spread your guys out everywhere. The the enemy tries and take one, take 'em out! Better to hold at the end then contest.

 

Now sweat the Little Guns,, not The Big Guys. Counter intuitive right? Nah. You might see a super scary death dealer heading right you, but he's just one guy. One guy that can bogged down is challenges that aren't worth his time (like my Emp Champ against a IG sgt) but I gotta take those challenges. He's a lot less scary when he's only killing one dude a turn really well and not 7.

 

Same example. My Emperor's champion and 15 crusaders charge a 40 man Guard Blob with 2 sgts and a commissar. The Champ (barring I didn't take a sword bro with the squad) spends three out of 6 turn game going through a sgt, a sgt, and a commissar. Who is doing the real fighting? The 15 crusaders and 38 guardsmen. You're priory should be to drop the units that can pour bullets on you. Sure a lascannon will cook one guy...but it's one guy. Lasguns will do nothing alone but get 50 of them....you see what I mean. Keep your opponent on his back foot by pushing his infantry around, ignore his "insta kill one or two guys" units until they are a real problem, and make sure to whittle down anything shiny before they hit your lines.

[Dragon Claw]

 

 

 

If they still twitch nuke them from orbit.

 

 

It's the only way to be sure.

[Kaedes Nex]

You should familiarize yourself with other armies or at least their most popular units and builds so you can make judgment calls on your own, and should the situation arise, make the proper targeting decision for that specific game turn even if common sense would tell you that another unit should be more dangerous.

 

You don't even need to play many games, just doing research on Google and forums and watching battle reports gives you an idea of what each army does, as does looking up codex reviews or guides for specific armies. Despite only playing vanilla marines and being a fairly new and inexperienced player, I know all the armies in and out and could comfortably build/pilot any codex if you provided me with the models. It doesn't take much, especially when this game is so interesting so it's fun to see things through your opponents' eyes.

 

For example, looking at the Tau codex, you would be surprised how many Tau players focus only on Riptides and Pathfinders, overlooking gems like Kroot, positional relay, and Skyrays. It's also funny how new Tau players and bandwagoners will be unprepared for mirror matches with the opponent spamming stealth suits, XV8, or the multitude of amazing Fast Attack options everyone ignores, like Piranhas, Tetras, etc. Did you know 3 cheap, inexpensive Piranhas can detach their drones and then spend the rest of the game harassing Land Raiders by surrounding all three exit hatches while staying in cohesion? Who needs to blow up AV14 when you can just prevent the occupants from disembarking or advancing?

[Quozzo]

Not only is it situational but it depends on the meta. What if the unit happens to be difficult terrain or behind cover too. What about if an IC is attached to the unit, what if the unit can only make snap shots. What about the myriad of different weapon loadouts that each model can take. What if all those option are also available to the enemy too, all possibilities just became exponentially more, to a logarithmic scale. Not including if more than one unit is included on the table top, effecting every decision you, or they, make.

[Xenith]

There is no clear cut threat matrix. A unit that may be a threat to one army is no big deal to another. You must gain experience and use your judgement.

 

Some of the basics:

 

Two potential thought trains:

Kill their troops and they cannot score. Focus on the troops first, then mop up the rest. you will likely take more damage, but be in a better position to claim objectives.

 

Kill the things that are best at killing your units. This comes at the risk of letting their troops get into position and dug in and harder to remove with your depleted forces.

 

General thoughts -

 

If you see an easy kill, take it. get first blood. This can be a rhino, drop pod, etc, or a ranger squad in cover when you're deepstriking flamers. The single extra VP can mean the difference between win and loss.

 

Kill large transports if you can. They usually hold something nasty like hammer terminators. If you don't have the firepower to do it efficiently, then ignore it, and expect to lose at least one unit, then kill the guys when they have disembarked.

 

Focus on one unit until it is gone. The fewer units your opponent has left, the fewer their options. Even one guardian that passed their morale check can still claim an objective.

[Axagoras]

You should go for the units in their army that you can kill the easiest and that hurt you the most, such as when playing marines vs eldar fire prisms and vypers are all good targets because they can kill large parts of your army in 1 go, and are relatively easy to kill (compared to a serpent or a wraithknight)

[Ethrion]

Target priority can come down to things like: an isolated or easy first blood target, lynchpin character or unit that when removed the rest of the army loses buffs etc, enemy unit that is coming straight for you and needs to be stopped right away and of course troop choices (without them the enemy can't ever score). The last one is also very much dependent on the mission too as some require specific troop choices less (i.e. the fast attack, heavy support and kill points missions).

 

It's also important to try and impose you're own will on the game and not only react to the enemy's moves.

[aceytrixx]

I prioritise with units I can wipe out straight away. At the moment running 3 pods and the list I am there isnt always much I can take out however Im looking at going to 7 pods which will allow me to further that strike. After then it becomes mission dependant. I like to get rid of as much scoring as I can but its finding a balance between focusing on scoring units and those units that smash face

[Captain Idaho]

My theory with my Ultramarines lists is, for the most part, take out the most dangerous units first.

 

Why? Two crucial reasons:

 

1) Marines are usually too low in number to take large amounts of casualties. We don't have the survivability of Eldar (shocking right?) or Necrons, or the bodies of Orks, Tyranids and Guard, so a large death dealer will disproportionately lower our numbers.

 

2) Our elite Troops choices will actually be elite if you remove opposing danger units, thus giving us back our supposed advantage.

 

Of course you have to deem what those danger units are. Sometimes they're the mobile ones, sometimes they're the unit buffing the enemy army. It's a judgement call but after a single turn you can often tell what that is if you didn't know already.

[Prefect Apollyon]

Target priority is something you improve on with experience.

 

Don't use a Tactical Squad with Bolters and Flamers to shoot tanks. Use said squad to take out horde infantry. Don't use Lascannon Devastators to target standard infantry. Use them for tank hunting.

 

Simple things like that. As you're building your list, have a role in mind for each unit. when playing a game, stick to that role as best you can.

 

My best advice in game, focus on the mission objectives. If the mission is "kill everything," then do so. If however it is "capture X" then that is what you must focus on.

[Rogue]

I don't think that there is (or can be) a simple answer to the target priority question. There are things to bear in mind, though. 

 

As has been pointed out, you need to have the mission objectives in mind - all the fire discipline in the world doesn't help if his last model is the only one standing near an objective come the end of the game.

 

Usually, having chosen a target, you should shoot it until it's dead, or until it no longer poses a threat. For example, a tactical squad may need to be wiped out, as any survivors can still contest or capture objectives. On the other hand, a distant devastator squad may cease to be a threat once all its heavy weapons have been removed, at which point you'd need to be asking yourself what you gain by diverting firepower to kill off one or two out-of-range squaddies. 

 

Know what you can kill. In other words, don't waste firepower on stuff that it'll bounce off. Of course, sometimes we all have to shoot the terminators with bolters, because you have nothing else  left and you need them dead (or because that's all the bolters can shoot, in which case a slim chance of success is better than not shooting at all). 

 

Think about your order, both choosing targets and choosing your own units. If something has to die right now or you lose, you have to shoot that first. A fleeing squad who have no potential targets probably sits towards the bottom of the list (unless it contains a vital target like a Warlord, or you need to wipe it out for VPs) - worth shooting if you have spare units, but not a priority.  

 

For example, I need to kill a rhino (because it's in my deployment zone). I could use devastator missile launchers or a tactical squad with heavy bolters. Odds on, I'll go with the launchers first, with the heavy bolter as a last ditch resort. But if the heavy bolter squad have no other targets, I'll start with them. If the devastators have a couple of choices, I'll consider going first with the heavy bolter, on the off chance it frees up the devastators. As with most of these thoughts, it depends a lot on circumstance.

 

If a unit only has one target in range, shoot it, even if the weapons aren't optimal. True, your bolters probably won't kill the rhino, but if it's their only possible target, why not chance it.

 

For example, I have a devastator squad with lascannon, and two combat squads with plasma gun and lascannon (their bolter armed brothers are flanking their way up the other side of the board). You have a vindicare assassin, five Grey Knight marines, and five Grey Knight terminators. The assassin is in cover, but the Knights aren't. For me, the firing solution looks like this:

- The devastators shoot the terminators. The lascannon will kill anything, so hit the heavy armour. Also, I want to kill the terminators because their storm bolters fire twice as fast as the bolters carried by the other marines.

- Of the two combat squads, one can target one three marines. The other can target both opposing squads. So I fire the more limited squad first - they only have one potential target, and I don't want the few marines they can hit to be removed before they can fire. I'm not going to finish this squad off, but I don't want to waste my squad's shots. (Plus, I might get a break test and push them back)

- The remaining combat squad targets the terminators. They could have gone either way, but the bolters are likely to bounce off either target, the lascannon and plasma will likely kill both targets, and the terminators are currently the bigger threat.

- I've ignored the vindicare for a couple of reasons. He's already killed my vindicator tank, and at the moment, has no other major targets. At most, he can kill one marine per turn, and is in cover, meaning that he has the best save against my lascannon and plasma weaponry too. (In the end, he went down to a volley of bolter fire from one of the flanking combat squads anyway)

 

A few thoughts to pick at...

[Schultzhoffen]

Some great ideas so I'll only add/agree with a few things:

 

1. Focus on the mission. Do not get sidetracked. Seriously, Your army is there to get the job done - everything and everyone is expendable if it gets the job done.

 

2. A great deal depends on what you face/what list you have. Try to imagine you were playing the army opposite you. What would you least want to lose/have your opponent do? Then try to do exactly that.

 

3. Play the long game. You may need to sacrifice units to accomplish something else later. You may also need to first kill the oncoming waves of termagants to stop them tying you up before aiming at the scary but slower Carnifex. In fact, it is always a good idea to target fast moving enemy units early on.

 

4. Do not get caught up in trying to kill everything - concentrate fire until the enemy unit is dead - DO NOT spread your fire around until said unit is dead.

 

5. Do not get emotionally attached/distracted. Keep a calm and cool head. Don't make rushed or panicked decisions. Remember: the game is only finished after 5-7 turns so one bad round is not the end of the world.

 

 

The more experienced you get the better you'll be at identifying what needs to be done in any given situation. No amount of reading/watching games is a substitute for playing. I also found that playing in Tournaments made me a much better player due to time limits, pressure and cut throat competition. A good idea would also be to play against the best players you can, take you losses in good grace and learn from each one.

 

When I first started playing I kept a journal where I recorded what happened every game. I evaluated my own performance (being honest!) and each unit in the list. I'd stick with each unit for several games but if I could not get the best out of them I'd change my list. I'd also jot down enemy tactics, good ideas I picked up, etc

 

I know it is expensive but you should have (at least) the Codexes of the armies you stand a chance of fighting regularly. You need to know what they can do.

[Black Templar 307th Comp.]

I personally favor an "up the food chain" approach.  My goal is to reduce the number of dice my opponent is rolling.  If I am rolling more dice than you, then I am at an advantage.  First thing I do?  I drop a melta in on your side of the field.  I want first blood.  After that?  I'm coming after your dice.  Troops usually roll more dice than elites and heavy support.  A devastator squad doesn't roll a lot of dice, unless its blast markers roll well.  Tar pit units roll lots of dice too.  They may need higher numbers, but they roll more dice. Also if you kill a tar pit unit where it is deployed, then it has less of a chance to get into position to bog you down.  I remember boggling the mind of an opponent when I devoted two Land Raider Crusaders to killing his 20 chaos cultists.  The next turn, when I didn't have to maneuver around a blob of cultists, it made sense.  I try to create a situation I like to call "LeBron in Cleveland".  When LeBron James was in Cleveland, he was easily a top 3 player in the league, but his team was terrible.  They won games, largely on the strength of his play, but did not win championships, because when playoff teams stifled his below average teammates?  He suddenly wasn't that good anymore.  So yes, you might have a Biomancy Demon Prince flying around and vector striking and eating bodies...but by turn three, when that's pretty much all you have?  I can live with that.

 

Now my approach isn't the only one, nor is it universal.  Some times I need to kill LeBron first.  But my general thought is to take dice away from you and work from there.