daveclark890 Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Just a thought in my mad little head! Flamers are great for units being assaulted and dealing with units in cover Plasma is good for TEQ and light vehicles Melta is good for armour and MCs These are all known and tried/trusted. General consensus is to take multiples of 1 type in a squad. BUT What if you took the flamer (free upgrade) allowing you a second special in a full pack for free which is the true special and compliment this with a WGPL with a combi of the same type. My thinking is that you have the ability to deal more efficiently with the increasing quantities of horde, your special weapons are all free so should free up some extra points, most people include a WGPL with a matching combi anyway. Anyway that's my random thought. I would like to know if anyone has played this set up and how it worked for them? I have played a similar set up in my Raven Guard list with assault squads armed with flamers and plasma pistols and they are nasty when they get up close. Anyway please give me your thoughts and feelings please guys. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283158-grey-hunter-loadout/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Michael Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 It a great idea to gain some points, better leadership, yet maintain that mid range punch we wolves are known for...the draw back is it hinders dedicated transport options. With 10 capacity drop pods and rhinos your foot slogging. Dependent upon your local meta, if it's full of heldrakes it could be a short game for you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283158-grey-hunter-loadout/#findComment-3519127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveclark890 Posted November 11, 2013 Author Share Posted November 11, 2013 I am currently running 75 wolves in 1500 but not many fliers in my local meta. Trying to think of ways to keep the wolves up there in 6th Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283158-grey-hunter-loadout/#findComment-3519134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denison512 Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 75 in 1500? a man after my own heart :P 60-70 in 1850 with transports is i rock and roll sometimes! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283158-grey-hunter-loadout/#findComment-3519299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drunk Guardian Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 It is illegal to take a more expensive weapon as the "free" second weapon. Not sure if they have to match per se, but if you take a plasma gun you definitely have to pay the points for it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283158-grey-hunter-loadout/#findComment-3519322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 It is illegal to take a more expensive weapon as the "free" second weapon. Not sure if they have to match per se, but if you take a plasma gun you definitely have to pay the points for it. Says who? It's certainly not in the rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283158-grey-hunter-loadout/#findComment-3519524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveclark890 Posted November 12, 2013 Author Share Posted November 12, 2013 Codex says take a special and if the squad totals10 then you can take a second for free. There is no stipulation that you have to pay for the most expensive so to me that says take the free flamer as first special and then get a further special weapon for free which would be the plasma or melta. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283158-grey-hunter-loadout/#findComment-3519649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drunk Guardian Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 It is illegal to take a more expensive weapon as the "free" second weapon. Not sure if they have to match per se, but if you take a plasma gun you definitely have to pay the points for it. Says who? It's certainly not in the rules. From the FAQ: Q: Must a Grey Hunter unit that consists of ten models take the first special weapon at normal points cost in order to take the second free one? (p26) A: Yes. Perhaps I'm reading too deeply into that, but that language suggests to me that you don't get to take a free plasma gun by selecting a flamer as your first weapon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283158-grey-hunter-loadout/#findComment-3519767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykryl Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Flamer upgrade is 0. You paid the points, if have 10 GH you may select a 2nd upgrade for free. I'm knew to this but that question in the FAQ sounds like someone trying to get a free secondary choice plasmagun for having 10 GH without taking the requisite first choice of flamer 0, Melta 5 or plasmagun 10 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283158-grey-hunter-loadout/#findComment-3519838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Flamer upgrade is 0. You paid the points, if have 10 GH you may select a 2nd upgrade for free. I'm knew to this but that question in the FAQ sounds like someone trying to get a free secondary choice plasmagun for having 10 GH without taking the requisite first choice of flamer 0, Melta 5 or plasmagun 10 This is how I read it and have played it in my local area with no issues. The normal point cost is 0 for a flamer, it is not saying that both special weapons must match. Not sure how anyone reads that into it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283158-grey-hunter-loadout/#findComment-3519857 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 It is illegal to take a more expensive weapon as the "free" second weapon. Not sure if they have to match per se, but if you take a plasma gun you definitely have to pay the points for it. Says who? It's certainly not in the rules. From the FAQ: Q: Must a Grey Hunter unit that consists of ten models take the first special weapon at normal points cost in order to take the second free one? (p26) A: Yes. Exactly, and the normal points cost for a Flamer is 0 points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283158-grey-hunter-loadout/#findComment-3519877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drunk Guardian Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 It is illegal to take a more expensive weapon as the "free" second weapon. Not sure if they have to match per se, but if you take a plasma gun you definitely have to pay the points for it. Says who? It's certainly not in the rules. From the FAQ: Q: Must a Grey Hunter unit that consists of ten models take the first special weapon at normal points cost in order to take the second free one? (p26) A: Yes. Exactly, and the normal points cost for a Flamer is 0 points. I can't prove otherwise so I will not disagree. Just when I read it, it doesn't seem to be what was intended. I've got into many heated debates about intention so I will bow out of this discussion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283158-grey-hunter-loadout/#findComment-3519945 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveclark890 Posted November 12, 2013 Author Share Posted November 12, 2013 DG I appreciate where you are coming from in terms of fairness and playing to the codex and rules. Let's get back to the original topic and whether the mixed special weapon loadout with the WG combi would be effective? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283158-grey-hunter-loadout/#findComment-3519960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I would rather pay the 5 points or 10 points to get two Plasma or two Meltas in Drop Pods GH loadout. My reasoning is when I plan a drop pod assault, I am going for a specific target with each pod and that first shot after Deep Striking is the only shooting you can count on to get the job done. So I would rather have redundant weapon loadouts to help ensure that job does get done. Where I do use the flamer and melta/plasma combo is in Land Raiders and objective holding Rhinos. In these loadouts where a flamer / special has low impact on their hitting / holding effectiveness you can save the points. Plus of course for all the reasons you already mentioned. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283158-grey-hunter-loadout/#findComment-3520419 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I would rather pay the 5 points or 10 points to get two Plasma or two Meltas in Drop Pods GH loadout. My reasoning is when I plan a drop pod assault, I am going for a specific target with each pod and that first shot after Deep Striking is the only shooting you can count on to get the job done. So I would rather have redundant weapon loadouts to help ensure that job does get done. Where I do use the flamer and melta/plasma combo is in Land Raiders and objective holding Rhinos. In these loadouts where a flamer / special has low impact on their hitting / holding effectiveness you can save the points. Plus of course for all the reasons you already mentioned. Agreed; I'm in the dual-Special Weapon of the same type camp. If you're bothering to put Meltas in your Pack, it's because you want to reliably destroy tanks/vehicles. To be reliable, you need redundancy to overcome a) misses, b ) poor armor penetration rolls, and c) poor rolls on the damage charts. Having two Meltaguns in the unit (or two Meltaguns plus a Combi-melta on a WGPL, when not in Drop Pod or Rhino, etc.) gives you the reduncy required to be effective and reliable at the job that you've assigned the unit. Likewise, if you're going Plasma heavy, it's because you intend for the Pack to be effective against Heavy Infantry (e.g. Terminators), and Light Vehicles. As with the melta above, having two Plasma guns in the unit (or two Plasma guns plus Combi-plasma) maximizes your unit's effectiveness and reliability against its target of choice, and allows it to overcome some degree of a) missed shots, b ) poor wounding rolls (1s), and c) cover and invulnerable saves. Flamers are only really decent weapons against very lightly armored infantry (e.g. Orks), or when used in bulk (which is often hard to achieve when they are effective at such short ranges. These lightly armored infantry are already vulnerable to your Bolt Pistol and Boltgun firepower, so there is very little advantage to them beyond a few (d3?) automatic hits when receiving a charge. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283158-grey-hunter-loadout/#findComment-3521183 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune_Priest_Rhapsody Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Tactical Marnes have been putting up with a similar idea for some time now, and they fare just fine. Combi on the Serg, the same gun in the pack plus a flamer. Works well for units going after troops if you run plas/flamer. What you need to remember is that you are spending those points for the WGPL that are more than just buying the melta in the first place. Yes, you get the +1 LD but if you're trying to get bodies on the board paying 5 for a melta gun is still less than 18 for the Wolf Guard with out any upgrades until the cows come home. I certainly think it's a worthy idea for certain packs!! End of Line Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283158-grey-hunter-loadout/#findComment-3521968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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