Crozius Arcanum - Power weapon or Power Maul?

[Kol Saresk]

Crozius chainglaive it is then.

Actually, no. Chainglaives replace power weapons as an alternative choice remember? Not the Crozius Arcanums. The Crozius is another replacement for a power weapon and its stats are simply determined by how it is shaped. If it is axe-shaped, AP2 Unwieldy plus whatever other rules apply to the weapon. Sword-shaped, AP3 plus the rules. Maul-shaped, AP4 and concussive plus the rules. So on, so forth. You cannot actually have a Crozius Arcanum Chainglaive. You either get the Crozius, or the Chainglaive.

[depthcharge12]

 

Crozius chainglaive it is then.

Actually, no. Chainglaives replace power weapons as an alternative choice remember? Not the Crozius Arcanums. The Crozius is another replacement for a power weapon and its stats are simply determined by how it is shaped. If it is axe-shaped, AP2 Unwieldy plus whatever other rules apply to the weapon. Sword-shaped, AP3 plus the rules. Maul-shaped, AP4 and concussive plus the rules. So on, so forth. You cannot actually have a Crozius Arcanum Chainglaive. You either get the Crozius, or the Chainglaive.

 

 

Hey Kol I have 1 million dollars in a safebox underwater.

 

 

Here's some concrete shoes to help you get down there to find it.....

 

 

 

I WILL HAVE CROZIUS CHAINGLAIVE!!!!!

[Kol Saresk]

Crozius chainglaive it is then.

Actually, no. Chainglaives replace power weapons as an alternative choice remember? Not the Crozius Arcanums. The Crozius is another replacement for a power weapon and its stats are simply determined by how it is shaped. If it is axe-shaped, AP2 Unwieldy plus whatever other rules apply to the weapon. Sword-shaped, AP3 plus the rules. Maul-shaped, AP4 and concussive plus the rules. So on, so forth. You cannot actually have a Crozius Arcanum Chainglaive. You either get the Crozius, or the Chainglaive.

Hey Kol I have 1 million dollars in a safebox underwater.

Here's some concrete shoes to help you get down there to find it.....

I WILL HAVE CROZIUS CHAINGLAIVE!!!!!

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc69/bleachit54/zodtext_zpsc15f2c50.png?t=1384797629

[depthcharge12]

Though technically I dont see how you cant replace the crozius with a chainglaive since technically the crozius is a power weapon as it is worded, and the chainglaive can replace the power weapon for free.

 

 

So a crozius is just a power weapon with a fancy name for 30k as a symbol of office. Cant see why it couldn't be a crozius chainglaive, as there are not any special properties attributed to the crozius to confuse.

 

 

WE NEED ARBITRATIONNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!

 

 

AND UNESSECARRY CAPS AND EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!!!!!

[Kol Saresk]

It would replace the Crozius itself. Think about how you just said it.

 

"Technically the crozius is a power weapon and the chainglaive can replace the power weapon."

 

The Crozius is the power weapon. You replace the power weapon, you replace the Crozius.

[Moonstalker]

I think that you can still take a Chainglaive on a Chaplain, but it can't replace their Crozius.  Specifically:

 

"Any character or Independent Character with the Legiones Astartes (Night Lords) special rule eligible to take a power weapon as part of their options, may instead take a Nostraman Chainglaive for the same listed cost."

 

You do not take a Crozius Arcanum as part of your options.  It is a piece of wargear that comes with the purchase of a Chaplain Consul upgrade.  However, you could, for instance, take a Crozius Arcanum (power axe), a pistol, and replace the Consul's close combat weapon with a Chainglaive.

 

But that would be just my opinion.  I feel like I've bothered the guys at FW enough for one week, you could write them yourself and ask if the Chainglaive is an okay substitution.

[Lysere]

Like to chime in a Crozius is treated as a power weapon, uses the rules for a power weapon, but in terms of a models wargear and options is not a 'Power weapon.' It is a Crozius. Now if you can take a different power weapon on the chaplain it looks like you could make that a chainglaive, or you could just model it that way and just be clear it's a sword or some such. I mean you are playing 30k so obviously your group is probably cool with something that is fun.

[depthcharge12]

I guess what Im arguing is semantics, but since the rules say that its only if you have the option and crozius isn't an option, then you are correct.

 

 

I didn't quite read the rules as thouroughly as I thought thanks

[Moonstalker]

Personally, if you were in my group, I don't think I'd make a fuss of it.  The rulebook seems to consider a chainglaive suitably equivalent in strength to a power weapon anyways.  So long as it was discussed and agreed beforehand, it seems like a reasonable substitution.  I just don't think it's support in the rules as written.

[Ash Da Flash]

I'd say maul, here's why:

Chaplins are the 40k equivalent to men-of-god fighting on the field, correct? In ye' olden days, members of the church who fought alongside regular soldiers were forbidden to carry bladed or piercing weapons. They always carried hammers or maces or blunt, crushing weapons. It's also why clereics cannot use swords, daggers etc in traditional D&D rules

So, the crozius as a maul/hammer/mace seems fitting to the source material.

[Spinsanity]

Ash: and yet we have at least one precedent where a chaplain (or their equivalent) fought with a power sword, instead of a maul; in Battle of the Fang, the Wolf Priest Wyrmblade (iirc, that was his name?) fights with a sword, not a maul...

[Kol Saresk]

I'd say maul, here's why:

Chaplins are the 40k equivalent to men-of-god fighting on the field, correct? In ye' olden days, members of the church who fought alongside regular soldiers were forbidden to carry bladed or piercing weapons. They always carried hammers or maces or blunt, crushing weapons. It's also why clereics cannot use swords, daggers etc in traditional D&D rules

So, the crozius as a maul/hammer/mace seems fitting to the source material.

Which would actually make more since that they are power weapons in 30K since they aren't supposed to resemble religious positions.

[Demus Ragnok]

I'd say maul, here's why:

Chaplins are the 40k equivalent to men-of-god fighting on the field, correct? In ye' olden days, members of the church who fought alongside regular soldiers were forbidden to carry bladed or piercing weapons. They always carried hammers or maces or blunt, crushing weapons. It's also why clereics cannot use swords, daggers etc in traditional D&D rules

So, the crozius as a maul/hammer/mace seems fitting to the source material.

Which would actually make more since that they are power weapons in 30K since they aren't supposed to resemble religious positions.

Yeah the chaplains were still a developing thing in the heresy era. The 40k chaplains however are steeped in "tradition". But there are still examples in 40k of chaplains weilding non clubs. (Astorath and the Executioner chaplain from the badab war)

[Kol Saresk]

I'd say maul, here's why:

Chaplins are the 40k equivalent to men-of-god fighting on the field, correct? In ye' olden days, members of the church who fought alongside regular soldiers were forbidden to carry bladed or piercing weapons. They always carried hammers or maces or blunt, crushing weapons. It's also why clereics cannot use swords, daggers etc in traditional D&D rules

So, the crozius as a maul/hammer/mace seems fitting to the source material.

Which would actually make more since that they are power weapons in 30K since they aren't supposed to resemble religious positions.

Yeah the chaplains were still a developing thing in the heresy era. The 40k chaplains however are steeped in "tradition". But there are still examples in 40k of chaplains weilding non clubs. (Astorath and the Executioner chaplain from the badab war)

And the Chaplain from Conquest of Armageddon whose Crozius always put me in mind of a cross-shaped axe.

[depthcharge12]

Ahh yes, Astorath the grim, who "wields the exectioner's axe as it weighed no more than a knife"....oh wait a second, 6th ed made him wield it at I1 now....grrrr

 

 

I still think whoever can make a crozius flail gets a +1