Brother Arcturus Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 So recently was looking over the official order of discussion (As told by BL editor laurie goulding) which I have placed below; HorusLeman Russ[DELETED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS]Ferrus ManusFulgrimVulkanRogal DornRoboute GuillimanMagnus the RedSanguiniusLion El'JonsonPerturaboMortarionLorgarJaghatai KhanKonrad CurzeAngronCorax[DELETED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS]Alpharius Now, when horus is 'sent back' to the creation of the primarch's theirs a bit where he laments the lost of the primarch of the XIth primarch, and in a few other instances we see several primarchs expressing similar sentiments. This to me has always implied that he was a well liked individual and had developed friendships with many of the others. So, looking at the order, I think we can pin him down to the 3rd one found, since I don't think he would have had as much time to develop the relationships that are implied if he was second to last found. Thought? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283291-lost-primarchsagain/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grotsmasha Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Sound logic to me....but then, you know how sometimes you just 'click' with someone and you know within 10 mins of meeting each other that you'll be pals for life? Could've been that too. Cheers, Jono Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283291-lost-primarchsagain/#findComment-3522110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Sirus Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Got to agree with Jono's point. Wasn't that the case with ferrus manus and fulgrim when they met, "we both like creating stuff" says ferrus "lets have a scratch build challenge" replied fulgrim, then were best of friends. So from a certain stand point the primachs made friends quickly. But you're theory is sound as he would have to be around long enough to make some more bounds with his further a field brothers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283291-lost-primarchsagain/#findComment-3522128 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Arcturus Posted November 14, 2013 Author Share Posted November 14, 2013 Thanks for the replies guys, this idea is really exiting for me cause assuming its true its the most solid info we have on the missing guys to date. taking the time between russ and the next few guys, we can figure out roughly how long he was in the great crusade. so, as far as fulgrim and ferrous it seems like their the exception rather than the rule. with most of the first meetings i know of, the primarchs seem to clash a bit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283291-lost-primarchsagain/#findComment-3522157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adra'Melek Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 If it's true it's the most solid info? Surely that's the same for anything? All this stuff is just speculation, that's all it'll probably ever be. Nothing wrong with speculation and the 'truth' can be anything you want it to be but it's just speculation. It's certainly plausible certainly. Sorry if that's a buzzkill Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283291-lost-primarchsagain/#findComment-3522302 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Sirus Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Thanks for the replies guys, this idea is really exiting for me cause assuming its true its the most solid info we have on the missing guys to date. Not exactly true, we know that the emperor and the primachs had something to do with their absense. Dont remember specifics but its in The First Heretic HH novel, it mentions something about a vote and no one wanted the same result as last time. I know its vague but we know they werent killed by xenos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283291-lost-primarchsagain/#findComment-3522340 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Well. What if the missing Primarch legion fought Xenos and the Primarch died. The vote then was to forbid recruiting practices or anything. So many possibilities Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283291-lost-primarchsagain/#findComment-3522394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 The First Heretics have some Word Bearers reminiscing on how much they had with XI primarch. That's as specific as it gets. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283291-lost-primarchsagain/#findComment-3522447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Arcturus Posted November 15, 2013 Author Share Posted November 15, 2013 I dont know kol, that seemed pretty vague too. it really only tells us that lorgar and the XI were close. im also gonna agree with sirius on this one, if they had simply been killed in battle than why erase all records? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283291-lost-primarchsagain/#findComment-3522847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Sirus Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 To play both sides of my own point 1) they were erased because they had done something that really annoyed the emperor and he thought erasing them would stop any further discord between the primachs. 2) they were killed by xenos but to keep the pretense that the primachs were unkillable, the records were erased to guard the truth. Personally though i strongly believe the first point otherwise the other legions would still have been around, rather than their rumoured assimilation in to the XIII legion(also from the first heretic i believe). Plus whats more grim dark, death by random xenos, purged by you're own father because of certain transgressions. Also consider the occasional use of the titles "the purged and the forgotten". Well thats all for now, food for thought perhaps. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283291-lost-primarchsagain/#findComment-3522887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlabasterKnight Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Playing devil's advocate... what if they were erased... not because of something they did, but... as evidenced by the sorrowful reference the Emperor remembers them with and *is* willing to talk about with Corax ("at a later time")... something that happened to them because of something they didn't know.... and further if the truth of that event was something the Emperor wasn't ready to or couldn't explain to their brethren... (and by the way: I take nothing the BL editor has said as gospel...) With respect to my Battle Brothers, AK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283291-lost-primarchsagain/#findComment-3523225 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 lol, although to be fair, supposedly this has been said interviews and Q&As. So while I agree, Thorpe failed to carry his intent across, the intent is different than the impression. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283291-lost-primarchsagain/#findComment-3523252 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosco Toppings Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 One of them was Sloth from the Goonies. Every battle, thousands of legionnaries would charge shouting "Heeeeeeey yoooooou guuuuuuuuuys!". The Emperor had to put them down out of sheer embarrasment Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283291-lost-primarchsagain/#findComment-3525042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Goderic Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I believe this is slightly off (the timeline of finding) HorusLeman Russ[DELETED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS]Ferrus ManusFulgrimVulkanRogal DornRoboute GuillimanMagnus the RedSanguiniusLion El'JonsonPerturaboMortarionLorgarJaghatai KhanKonrad CurzeAngronCorax[DELETED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS]Alpharius IIRC When the big E met Corax he told the raven about the 18 primarchs implying that whatever had happened with the second deletion, happened already. I'm at work so no reference material on hand though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283291-lost-primarchsagain/#findComment-3525214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Could have been genetic instabilities or literally psychological breakdowns, mutation or suicide. The lion felt alone in the universe on caliban, sang was mutated from the touch of chaos angron kurze & corax all have psyche issues Magnus and Russ are pretty genetically unstable with their marines. Doesn't have to be chaos or xenos as stated nothing like marine fighting marine had ever happened before. And we've seen the big E isn't always flawless with his works. I personally would like to see a broken primarch who felt to separate or a pacifist who ended there life or that was physically breaking down on a biological level. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283291-lost-primarchsagain/#findComment-3525412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilmittens Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I think the Black Library really got caught out on this one in that they never wanted the holes to be filled as those legions are supposed to be gamer devised legions..too allow for creativity and all that. Then some authors put in some references to explain them being gone and I think they were a bit shocked at the guessing and what not that erupted from those vauge references. At this point, if the Black Library ever wanted to explain those missing legions with a story, it would blow up in their faces as our imaginations are probably stronger then what they could come up with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283291-lost-primarchsagain/#findComment-3525459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TA]Typher Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 It sounds like a typo to me. With a work that includes events, writers and characters of a scale this epic they are going to happen. I recently watched a interview from George Martin (the writer of Game of Thrones) in which he said that even he (a lone writer) makes them. Mega fans, like most of us, sometimes catch these things but in reality obsessing over the unintentional small details detracts from the scope of the story. Anyway that's my perspective. On a side note I still hold that Sigmar was a Primarch. In the old fluff he was giant for a human and he went toe to toe with a greater demon. Not many humans can do that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283291-lost-primarchsagain/#findComment-3525544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 reading one of the newer threads I had a brainfart as to why they were removed from emperial records: the purged challenged the Emperor like all the other Primarchs had, and won. => drew a few chuckles, guy was cool, other primarchs like him. Emp heads back to orbit with tail between legs and exterminatus. purge from records: this NEVER happened. forgotten: some damnable hippie Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283291-lost-primarchsagain/#findComment-3557556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 I believe this is slightly off (the timeline of finding) Horus Leman Russ [DELETED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS] Ferrus Manus Fulgrim Vulkan Rogal Dorn Roboute Guilliman Magnus the Red Sanguinius Lion El'Jonson Perturabo Mortarion Lorgar Jaghatai Khan Konrad Curze Angron Corax [DELETED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS] Alpharius IIRC When the big E met Corax he told the raven about the 18 primarchs implying that whatever had happened with the second deletion, happened already. I'm at work so no reference material on hand though. Just to clear things up, when the Emperor tells Corax that two Primarchs are missing he is talking about the 2nd Missing Primarch in that list and Alpharius, as they had yet to be found. He wasn't talking about the two missing Primarchs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283291-lost-primarchsagain/#findComment-3557668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Yeah, considering the way it was written thiugh, it is understandable why it was so easily misunderstood. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283291-lost-primarchsagain/#findComment-3557672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don the Oiler Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 The Emperor probably made a billion Primarchs which were then scattered, the known 18 just had the luck to land on habitable planets. The rest choked to death in space or was crushed on high-pressure planets. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283291-lost-primarchsagain/#findComment-3557707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spu00sed Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Lost sons shows us a marine recieving a black scroll and knowing that it is word that his legion is being declared null and disbanded and he knows of two other scrolls of such nature that have been handed out. The scroll informs the remnants that their legion is offically no more and that its war assets are to be redistributed amongst the other legions. This could be where the word bearers get the idea that the ultra marines gained a load of marines. Since marines are just another asset that can be redistributed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283291-lost-primarchsagain/#findComment-3557928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBA Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 I might be dead wrong, but I've got the feeling the lid on the can of missing primarchs will eventually be peeled back by BL/GW. The Horus Heresy series will only last so long. What after that? They could go - and probably will go - the Scouring route, but I'd be surprised if they didn't dive back to the Great Crusade, with the pillar of drama of that series being the 2 lost legions. You also get to fully tell the tale of the original legions, discovery of Primarchs and clashes. The Night of The Wolf would be really cool to see fleshed out. It's something I'd welcome with open arms. And after that's done with, Unification Wars! GW is dead-set on not progressing the 40K universe, but has no problem going back in time Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283291-lost-primarchsagain/#findComment-3557976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Considering the ten thousand years of history available, if they keep this hold out on the mystery of the Lost, it could be decades or more before they run out of other stuff to build on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283291-lost-primarchsagain/#findComment-3557998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Sorry, gentlemen, but there do seem to be errors in the Primarch discovery order that Laurie provided, the most obvious being that it (apparently) doesn't take into account Deliverance Lost. “Brothers?’ Corvus was excited by the prospect, pushing aside the questions that the Emperor’s answer had prompted. Though he had made many friends amongst the prisoners of Lycaeus, always Corvus had been aware of his otherness, and when they had started to call him Saviour any hope of normal relationships had ended. That there were others like him filled Corvus with hope again. ‘Yes, you have brothers,’ said the Emperor, smiling at his son’s delight. ‘Seventeen of them. You are the primarchs, my finest creations.’ ‘Seventeen?’ Corvus asked, confused. ‘I remember that I was number nineteen. How can that be so?’ The Emperor’s expression grew bleak, filled with deep sorrow. He looked away as he replied. ‘The other two,’ he said. ‘That is a conversation for another day.” I honestly don't get how someone would think the Emperor is referring to anyone other than the two missing Primarchs when he refers to the "other two". The context and the implication are entirely wrong for them to be one of the deleted Primarchs and Alpharius. This convention has always been used for the Missing Primarchs since the series began. I think it would be disingenuous for it to suddenly be used for someone that hasn't yet been found. Anyways, I know the official party line is "it's all canon and none of it is". I struggle to see how, in this case, we're not looking at a simple case of human error. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283291-lost-primarchsagain/#findComment-3558016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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