Lost Primarchs...again

[Conn Eremon]

This is something that comes up constantly, and threw me off as well. The explanation is that those two brothers they are talking about are not the Lost. They are the two not yet discovered, one of which happens to be one of the Lost and the other is the XXth.

 

"You have seventeen brothers."

"But I am number nineteen."

"The other two . . . That is something better left for another day."

 

*another day comes*

 

Corax: "Hey, Alpharius, nice to mee-- Ohhhhhhh . . ."

[KBA]

I can only speak for myself, but I've no real interest in reading about Horus being cloned, the dividing of the Legions into Chapters, or loyalists mopping up traitors and herding them into the Warp while the Imperium deteriorates from state into church. Those sound like 40K tales, and from what I've read in the Space Marine Battles novels BL does to their HH line, the difference in setting makes for stories night and day. The dynamic from Emperor/Warmaster to Primarch to Marine is such an interesting one that it amps it up from gritty sci-fi fantasy to true space opera IMO. Once the Primarchs disappear, I predict a lot of BL's sales will as well. Great Crusade!!!!!!!!

[Conn Eremon]

I think a lot of others in this subforum would agree with you, KBA, and I can certainly understand that.

[spu00sed]

Sorry, gentlemen, but there do seem to be errors in the Primarch discovery order that Laurie provided, the most obvious being that it (apparently) doesn't take into account Deliverance Lost.

 

 

 

“Brothers?’ Corvus was excited by the prospect, pushing aside the questions that the Emperor’s answer had prompted. Though he had made many friends amongst the prisoners of Lycaeus, always Corvus had been aware of his otherness, and when they had started to call him Saviour any hope of normal relationships had ended. That there were others like him filled Corvus with hope again.

‘Yes, you have brothers,’ said the Emperor, smiling at his son’s delight. ‘Seventeen of them. You are the primarchs, my finest creations.’

‘Seventeen?’ Corvus asked, confused. ‘I remember that I was number nineteen. How can that be so?’

The Emperor’s expression grew bleak, filled with deep sorrow. He looked away as he replied.

‘The other two,’ he said. ‘That is a conversation for another day.”

 

I honestly don't get how someone would think the Emperor is referring to anyone other than the two missing Primarchs when he refers to the "other two".  The context and the implication are entirely wrong for them to be one of the deleted Primarchs and Alpharius.  This convention has always been used for the Missing Primarchs since the series began.  I think it would be disingenuous for it to suddenly be used for someone that hasn't yet been found.

 

Anyways, I know the official party line is "it's all canon and none of it is".  I struggle to see how, in this case, we're not looking at a simple case of human error.

Looks like gods and demigods can be bad at maths

 

Number 19 with 17 brothers. That only leaves number 18 missing, thus only 1 missing brother.

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

Sorry, gentlemen, but there do seem to be errors in the Primarch discovery order that Laurie provided, the most obvious being that it (apparently) doesn't take into account Deliverance Lost.

 

 

 

 

“Brothers?’ Corvus was excited by the prospect, pushing aside the questions that the Emperor’s answer had prompted. Though he had made many friends amongst the prisoners of Lycaeus, always Corvus had been aware of his otherness, and when they had started to call him Saviour any hope of normal relationships had ended. That there were others like him filled Corvus with hope again.

‘Yes, you have brothers,’ said the Emperor, smiling at his son’s delight. ‘Seventeen of them. You are the primarchs, my finest creations.’

‘Seventeen?’ Corvus asked, confused. ‘I remember that I was number nineteen. How can that be so?’

The Emperor’s expression grew bleak, filled with deep sorrow. He looked away as he replied.

‘The other two,’ he said. ‘That is a conversation for another day.”

I honestly don't get how someone would think the Emperor is referring to anyone other than the two missing Primarchs when he refers to the "other two". The context and the implication are entirely wrong for them to be one of the deleted Primarchs and Alpharius. This convention has always been used for the Missing Primarchs since the series began. I think it would be disingenuous for it to suddenly be used for someone that hasn't yet been found.

 

Anyways, I know the official party line is "it's all canon and none of it is". I struggle to see how, in this case, we're not looking at a simple case of human error.

Looks like gods and demigods can be bad at maths

 

Number 19 with 17 brothers. That only leaves number 18 missing, thus only 1 missing brother.

incorrect. The Emperor says 17. Corax says 19. The Emperor then says "2 more".

 

As the Primarchs had psychic beacons that allowed the Emperor to know if they were alive or not, it is an entirely reasonably summation that when he suddenly gets soulful sad, that the two he is referring two are in "an unfavorable state". And as a result, it is logical that one read it as a reference to the missing Primarchs and thatthe Emperor knows Alpharius is still alive due to said psychic beacon, meaning that Corax still has seventeen brothers.

 

If you wanted to convey two simply haven't been found yet, instead of getting teary eyed and changing topics, it would have been easier to instead leave the Emperor neutral and say "Well you have two more but we haven't found them yet." Something like that would lead to, what I am told, is the "obvious" conclusion that Gav Thorpe was supposedly trying to convey.

[KBA]

What a mess. Gav Thorpe needs to stay away from this series.

[Grotsmasha]

IIRC, all of these timeline discrepancies are due to be edited out/corrected once the Hardcover of each book is re-released. This series is getting on, a lot of it written before that list was set in stone.

 

Cheers,

Jono

[Kol Saresk]

IIRC, all of these timeline discrepancies are due to be edited out/corrected once the Hardcover of each book is re-released. This series is getting on, a lot of it written before that list was set in stone.

 

Cheers,

Jono

If they can decide what to edit out. For example, everyone read "Alpharius took command of his Legion twenty years before the Heresy" and wanted to freak out and basically gut an entire chapter from the First Heretic. Everyone involved in the discussion/decision apparently didn't take into account that the day Alpharius took command isn't necessarily the day the Imperium became aware of his existence. So personally, somethings they need to slow down and actually look at because in the..... fervor to "correct" these errors, they risk creating more.

[KBA]

Unsure if this has been touched upon, and even more unsure if this carries any weight as it may just be Forge World invention rather than GW not only having the names of the Lost and their legions down but also have shared at least the number of letters in the names if not the entire names with their subsidiary:

 

From page 29 of Betrayal, under ' Space Marine Legions extant at the time of the Horus Heresy', you can see the redaction of the 2nd and 11th Primarchs and their Legions. What is interesting is the length of the strike-out/black-out differs from name to name giving clue to the length of the missing Primarchs' names and legion names. The 2nd legion name black-out suggests, at least in kerned lettering, one that would be only second in length to the Emperor's Children, with the name of the 2nd Primarch appearing to be one name based on the fact of its black-out being shorter than any of the other multiple name Primarchs. Of course, it could be two short names, but based on this evidence, I'd say that it's unlikely.

The 11th legion's black-out length would suggest a name, again at least in kerned lettering, to be third longest - perhaps tied with Thousand Sons - behind the 2nd and 3rd legions. The 11th Primarch's black-out, 4th longest in length, suggests at least two names, or even two sperated or prefaced by the noun the, ie: The Angel Sanguinius, Magnus the Red, Horus the Warmaster.

 

Some may argue that the black-out length cannot be an exact science due to undefined parameters on when in its length the black-out actually black outs letters instead of empty space, and while I'd agree to some extent, I have to give credit to the precedent of the black-out beginning with the left-aligned text of the other Primarch and legion names.

 

If your still with me, all of this hinges on FW not just picking, choosing, and guessing on their own of the Lost names, but it is super interesting to break down :)

[Kol Saresk]

Personally, I think it's just Alan Bligh having a sense of humor and screwing with us to get the hamsters spinning the wheels. But who knows, maybe you're onto something. Although that might mean an eventual revealing of the Lost Legions and that would just suck.

[KBA]

I understand the taboo nature of the mystery and that a potential reveal could sour so much of the cool such mystery brings - look no further than Boba Fett in the prequels of Starwars - but I've faith Black Library, if they choose to employ their strongest writers to not only write but also think-tank the idea, could base the reveal on a lengthy prequel series to the Horus Heresy in the Great Crusade. I'm really torn on the idea though as it would walk a knife's edge to success, and the Winds of Thorpe blow strong with the company...

[Kol Saresk]

The Winds of Thorpe, nice.

 

But yeah, honestly it just seems like it'd be one of those things that would end up being "They got erased from history for that?" It's just kind of that deal "If you never see it, then you can imagine. But once seen, it cannot be unseen."

[Conn Eremon]

Aye, those redactions were interesting, and I couldn't help but squee that my old, old attempt at the IInd had a Primarch name that would easily fit. But my honest opinion is that the lengths were random, not clues.

 

As for the First Heretic and the Alpha Legion, I am in favor of gutting. Yes, it is sacrilege to do something like that to an ADB book, but to me having him rewrite that one bit accordingly would be less damaging than saying that it took that freaking long before Alpharius took command after being found. If the time between was shorter, a lot shorter, I would not mind it so much. But as it is, the difference is way too vast to make any kind of sense.

[Kol Saresk]

Aye, those redactions were interesting, and I couldn't help but squee that my old, old attempt at the IInd had a Primarch name that would easily fit. But my honest opinion is that the lengths were random, not clues.

 

As for the First Heretic and the Alpha Legion, I am in favor of gutting. Yes, it is sacrilege to do something like that to an ADB book, but to me having him rewrite that one bit accordingly would be less damaging than saying that it took that freaking long before Alpharius took command after being found. If the time between was shorter, a lot shorter, I would not mind it so much. But as it is, the difference is way too vast to make any kind of sense.

Just out of curiosity, why? He was traveling with Horus after all and we know that at least Ferrus had enough time to go from Medusa(after conquering it with his Legion) to Terra in order to spend quality time in the forge. Twenty years on the sidereal doesn't seem that unusual. Especially when considering beings who see five years as a week.

 

The reality is, nothing printed(at least, not that I've seen) says all twenty of the Primarchs had to meet. Leave what is printed alone and gut the "official, but currently nonexistent statement". Or Deliverance Lost. Seems like it needs an Extreme Makeover Novel Edition anyways to actually clarify the things it says.

 

We also know the Alpha Legion finished completion later in the Crusade and that it spent quality time with the Emperor. Seems like it'd make a perfect rationalization for the Legion's quality time to be with the Emperor while Alpharius traveled with Horus, except in the spotlight.

[Conn Eremon]

It has nothing to do with everyone meeting each other, it is that twenty or so years between being discovered and being put in command seems a ridiculously long period of time. Especially when considering every other Primarch who has had their discovery and first command depicted in the slightest all had it happen much, much faster. Mostly, it was immediate. Hi, here are your sons. Go, be free*. The Lion, Lorgar, Fulgrim, Ferrus, Vulkan, Russ, Corax, Magnus, Curze, Mortarion, Sanguinius, and even Angron. They all seem to have taken command within days or months of being discovered, but Alpharius took twenty :cuss ing years? That sounds utterly ridiculous. Halving that would still sound ridiculous. If you really wanted to say that Alpharius spent more time wandering around before taking command than any other Primarch, saying three to five years would do that no problem, and still be triple anyone else's.

 

No, modifying a small piece of a single book that provided nothing for it in the first place seems like a no brainer. Unless the rewritten portion is done by Gav Thorpe or something, it would detract nothing from the book.

 

Now, ADB might disagree with me, and it is his book. He should know better than me. But unless he provides some insight I am missing and changes my mind, I have to agree with the editors on this one.

[Kol Saresk]

Again, Ferrus was immediate, but then he took a siesta or something. Remember how Fulgrim found him, at Terra, playing in the Forges? As far as I know, you can't lead a Legion on a galactic crusade from a planet-borne forge. And the Horus talked in Horus Rising, didn't sound like he was immediately thrust into the Crusade either. And IIRC, the IA articles correctly, Curze wasn't immediately given command either. He and Fulgrim spent some time together before he took command.

 

But as for The First Heretic, it isn't a minor change. It's basically a decent portion of a chapter. And its a portion that pretty much shapes the rest of the book. Reminiscing about the Lost Legions and how they're being Lost affected Lorgar is what led up to Argel Tal destroying the Gellar Field in that lab, which then resulted in the Scattering. That scene is basically what allowed the Scattering to happen and without it, 40K basically doesn't exist. The smart thing to do, would be to take the "Official but not officially printed" statement "All twenty met" and dump it. From there, everything "magically resolves". There is no need to try and rationalize the amount of time between Alpharius "being officially discovered" and "taking command of his Legion" because it goes back to an unknown number. The section in Deliverance Lost is pretty much read as reffering to the Two Lost Primarchs being Lost anyways so again, no harm no foul. Instead of gutting a book, just dump the memo.

[Conn Eremon]

I agree with the "all twenty met" thing. That isn't my issue with it. My issue is those twenty years between being found and taking command.

 

Horus is understandable, because he was a child. Ferrus, Fulgrim, and Curze taking a few months doesn't really compare to twenty years.

 

As to the impact of that bit on the book, I greatly disagree. Simply removing it would have a negligible impact, and more than likely it would be changed into something else that did the same thing for the story, which I don't think was much. Having Alpharius' discovery or taking of command changed would not have changed Lorgar's path and has nothing to do with the Lost Legions.

[Kol Saresk]

Except that scene builds up the premise for Argel Tal destroying the Gellar Field which then leads to the Scattering. Remove that and either the scene doesn't happen, or its pointless as there is no motivation to it.

 

But if you dump the whole "They had to meet", the twenty years thing with Alpharius? Poof. The need to "revise" The First Heretic? Poof. Two birds, one stone. Everyone wins.

[Perrin]

Was it ever confirmed that Argel Tal caused the Scattering? I may be misunderstanding what you're saying Kol but to my mind there was no proof that that wasn't a vision shown to them by the daemon.

[Kol Saresk]

Was it ever confirmed that Argel Tal caused the Scattering? I may be misunderstanding what you're saying Kol but to my mind there was no proof that that wasn't a vision shown to them by the daemon.

Yes and no. We know that the "vision" was the same "vision" Horus saw, as Argel tal heard Horus scream, but Horus and the Word Bearers were isolated from each other. It may not have been the actual scattering, but without the very extensive talk about the Lost Primarchs, the scene becomes useless as that talk is what led up to him breaking his swords as he cut through the power lines. And his swords did break so the "reality" of the vision is "real" enough to have destroyed matter.

 

Basically, you'd have to end up deleting the scene which would lead up to basically gutting that Chapter which kills a very pivotal moment in the book. Meanwhile, we have the "official but not officially printed" memo that could just disappear and erase the need for such butchering. Or just leave Deliverance Lost in the context most people read it in and you get the same exact correction with minimal effort.

[Perrin]

Personally I've always thought that the Deliverance Lost moment was a mistake by Black Library, and the "explanation" was the best cover up they could think of. Obviously this has been denied by BL employees but still...

 

Hadn't thought of the vision as if it was reality before, very warpy-timey-wimey.

[Phoebus]

Sorry, gentlemen, but there do seem to be errors in the Primarch discovery order that Laurie provided, the most obvious being that it (apparently) doesn't take into account Deliverance Lost.

“Brothers?’ Corvus was excited by the prospect, pushing aside the questions that the Emperor’s answer had prompted. Though he had made many friends amongst the prisoners of Lycaeus, always Corvus had been aware of his otherness, and when they had started to call him Saviour any hope of normal relationships had ended. That there were others like him filled Corvus with hope again.

‘Yes, you have brothers,’ said the Emperor, smiling at his son’s delight. ‘Seventeen of them. You are the primarchs, my finest creations.’

‘Seventeen?’ Corvus asked, confused. ‘I remember that I was number nineteen. How can that be so?’

The Emperor’s expression grew bleak, filled with deep sorrow. He looked away as he replied.

‘The other two,’ he said. ‘That is a conversation for another day.”

I honestly don't get how someone would think the Emperor is referring to anyone other than the two missing Primarchs when he refers to the "other two". The context and the implication are entirely wrong for them to be one of the deleted Primarchs and Alpharius. This convention has always been used for the Missing Primarchs since the series began. I think it would be disingenuous for it to suddenly be used for someone that hasn't yet been found.

Anyways, I know the official party line is "it's all canon and none of it is". I struggle to see how, in this case, we're not looking at a simple case of human error.

Looks like gods and demigods can be bad at maths

Number 19 with 17 brothers. That only leaves number 18 missing, thus only 1 missing brother.

incorrect. The Emperor says 17. Corax says 19. The Emperor then says "2 more".

As the Primarchs had psychic beacons that allowed the Emperor to know if they were alive or not, it is an entirely reasonably summation that when he suddenly gets soulful sad, that the two he is referring two are in "an unfavorable state". And as a result, it is logical that one read it as a reference to the missing Primarchs and thatthe Emperor knows Alpharius is still alive due to said psychic beacon, meaning that Corax still has seventeen brothers.

If you wanted to convey two simply haven't been found yet, instead of getting teary eyed and changing topics, it would have been easier to instead leave the Emperor neutral and say "Well you have two more but we haven't found them yet." Something like that would lead to, what I am told, is the "obvious" conclusion that Gav Thorpe was supposedly trying to convey.

Kol_Saresk, the Emperor's quote clearly mirrors those we read every time someone's been referring to the Missing Primarchs.

What you're proposing, on the other hand, is overly convoluted. It assumes that one of the Missing Primarchs hasn't been found yet, but that the Emperor has already decided that he will be deleted, hence the also-missing Alpharius is the eighteenth brother. Going by your own logic, though, the Emperor would know what Alpharius' status is, and thus has no reason to refer him in the same way as the two Missing Primarchs.

With respect, your last paragraph operates on faulty logic. It assumes there are two more Primarchs to be found. That's not the case, though. If you read the Emperor's quote as intended - in the same light as when the Primarchs refer to their missing brothers in other stories - then only Alpharius remains to be found. Thus, the Emperor has no reason to try to convey to you that two Primarchs haven't found yet. His "soulful sad" demeanor makes sense, because he's referring to the two Missing Primarchs - who already have been found, have already been deleted, but aren't a topic that the Emperor wants to broach with the son he just discovered.

Perrin,

Exactly. The attempts to reconcile the difference between Deliverance Lost and Laurie's list sound about as plausible as those aimed at explaining the bizarre discrepancies in the timeline of The Outcast Dead.

[Kol Saresk]

 

Here is your post:

 

Sorry, gentlemen, but there do seem to be errors in the Primarch discovery order that Laurie provided, the most obvious being that it (apparently) doesn't take into account Deliverance Lost.

 

 

 

 

“Brothers?’ Corvus was excited by the prospect, pushing aside the questions that the Emperor’s answer had prompted. Though he had made many friends amongst the prisoners of Lycaeus, always Corvus had been aware of his otherness, and when they had started to call him Saviour any hope of normal relationships had ended. That there were others like him filled Corvus with hope again.

‘Yes, you have brothers,’ said the Emperor, smiling at his son’s delight. ‘Seventeen of them. You are the primarchs, my finest creations.’

‘Seventeen?’ Corvus asked, confused. ‘I remember that I was number nineteen. How can that be so?’

The Emperor’s expression grew bleak, filled with deep sorrow. He looked away as he replied.

‘The other two,’ he said. ‘That is a conversation for another day.”

I honestly don't get how someone would think the Emperor is referring to anyone other than the two missing Primarchs when he refers to the "other two". The context and the implication are entirely wrong for them to be one of the deleted Primarchs and Alpharius. This convention has always been used for the Missing Primarchs since the series began. I think it would be disingenuous for it to suddenly be used for someone that hasn't yet been found.

 

Anyways, I know the official party line is "it's all canon and none of it is". I struggle to see how, in this case, we're not looking at a simple case of human error.

Here is the response to your post:

Looks like gods and demigods can be bad at maths

 

Number 19 with 17 brothers. That only leaves number 18 missing, thus only 1 missing brother.

Here is my response to the response, not to your post:

incorrect. The Emperor says 17. Corax says 19. The Emperor then says "2 more".

 

As the Primarchs had psychic beacons that allowed the Emperor to know if they were alive or not, it is an entirely reasonably summation that when he suddenly gets soulful sad, that the two he is referring two are in "an unfavorable state". And as a result, it is logical that one read it as a reference to the missing Primarchs and thatthe Emperor knows Alpharius is still alive due to said psychic beacon, meaning that Corax still has seventeen brothers.

 

If you wanted to convey two simply haven't been found yet, instead of getting teary eyed and changing topics, it would have been easier to instead leave the Emperor neutral and say "Well you have two more but we haven't found them yet." Something like that would lead to, what I am told, is the "obvious" conclusion that Gav Thorpe was supposedly trying to convey.

Do you still have the same impression of my post?

[Conn Eremon]

Sorry, gentlemen, but there do seem to be errors in the Primarch discovery order that Laurie provided, the most obvious being that it (apparently) doesn't take into account Deliverance Lost.

“Brothers?’ Corvus was excited by the prospect, pushing aside the questions that the Emperor’s answer had prompted. Though he had made many friends amongst the prisoners of Lycaeus, always Corvus had been aware of his otherness, and when they had started to call him Saviour any hope of normal relationships had ended. That there were others like him filled Corvus with hope again.

‘Yes, you have brothers,’ said the Emperor, smiling at his son’s delight. ‘Seventeen of them. You are the primarchs, my finest creations.’

‘Seventeen?’ Corvus asked, confused. ‘I remember that I was number nineteen. How can that be so?’

The Emperor’s expression grew bleak, filled with deep sorrow. He looked away as he replied.

‘The other two,’ he said. ‘That is a conversation for another day.”

I honestly don't get how someone would think the Emperor is referring to anyone other than the two missing Primarchs when he refers to the "other two". The context and the implication are entirely wrong for them to be one of the deleted Primarchs and Alpharius. This convention has always been used for the Missing Primarchs since the series began. I think it would be disingenuous for it to suddenly be used for someone that hasn't yet been found.

Anyways, I know the official party line is "it's all canon and none of it is". I struggle to see how, in this case, we're not looking at a simple case of human error.

Looks like gods and demigods can be bad at maths

Number 19 with 17 brothers. That only leaves number 18 missing, thus only 1 missing brother.

incorrect. The Emperor says 17. Corax says 19. The Emperor then says "2 more".

As the Primarchs had psychic beacons that allowed the Emperor to know if they were alive or not, it is an entirely reasonably summation that when he suddenly gets soulful sad, that the two he is referring two are in "an unfavorable state". And as a result, it is logical that one read it as a reference to the missing Primarchs and thatthe Emperor knows Alpharius is still alive due to said psychic beacon, meaning that Corax still has seventeen brothers.

If you wanted to convey two simply haven't been found yet, instead of getting teary eyed and changing topics, it would have been easier to instead leave the Emperor neutral and say "Well you have two more but we haven't found them yet." Something like that would lead to, what I am told, is the "obvious" conclusion that Gav Thorpe was supposedly trying to convey.

Kol_Saresk, the Emperor's quote clearly mirrors those we read every time someone's been referring to the Missing Primarchs.

What you're proposing, on the other hand, is overly convoluted. It assumes that one of the Missing Primarchs hasn't been found yet, but that the Emperor has already decided that he will be deleted, hence the also-missing Alpharius is the eighteenth brother. Going by your own logic, though, the Emperor would know what Alpharius' status is, and thus has no reason to refer him in the same way as the two Missing Primarchs.

With respect, your last paragraph operates on faulty logic. It assumes there are two more Primarchs to be found. That's not the case, though. If you read the Emperor's quote as intended - in the same light as when the Primarchs refer to their missing brothers in other stories - then only Alpharius remains to be found. Thus, the Emperor has no reason to try to convey to you that two Primarchs haven't found yet. His "soulful sad" demeanor makes sense, because he's referring to the two Missing Primarchs - who already have been found, have already been deleted, but aren't a topic that the Emperor wants to broach with the son he just discovered.

Perrin,

Exactly. The attempts to reconcile the difference between Deliverance Lost and Laurie's list sound about as plausible as those aimed at explaining the bizarre discrepancies in the timeline of The Outcast Dead.

Aha, I see your confusion. No, it isn't saying that Alpharius is brother 18. Corax himself is.

"You have seventeen other brothers, because you are the eighteenth found"

"But my pod was marked 'nineteen,' how can that be?"

"Ah, well, the other two (Oh, by the way, there are twenty total of you) haven't been found yet. But that is a sad discussion and this is party time according to the cat, we'll talk about that some other day."

"But why is it sad? Because you know they are going to be deleted?"

"Well, that could be a reason for me being sad. Or it could be that I have gone OVER A CENTURY without finding them, or that I am beginning to worry that by this point I might not ever. I created you all for a purpose, and every year I don't have you all with me is a year that purpose goes to waste. There is also the fact that I didn't actually say it was a sad topic, so I could just be saying that is a rather low priority thing on the list of things we need to discuss."

"But the distant look!"

"Ah, I can see why that might be considered sad. But then, I am a powerful psyker. Maybe you bringing it up made me want to do a quick scan around this galactic sector. Or maybe it is low priority, but still a distracting topic. Remember what I said about the purpose and the worrying?"

"Okay . . . "

"Look, the point is, I get how it could be taken that way. I mean, even Kol Saresk and Cormac Airt once thought I meant the two MIAs, and they have been dust on the wind for millennia! But those people leaped upon any chance of info for those two, heedless of veracity or context. But the point is, I am outright telling you I meant the two we have yet to find. End of story. The guy who wrote the story and the guy who double-checked the other guy's work all agree on this."

[Kol Saresk]

That. Is awesome.