Daemon Prince Mortality

[Vile Siren]

Hey there just a quick and simple question hopefully I will get a simple answer. Can daemon princes die within the eye of terror? I know they are immortal outside of the eye and if they die they will return to the wrap after a certain point of time or something like that. I ask because I have been reading about the slave wars in the eye of terror from lexicanum and warhammer 40k wiki(I know they are not reliable on info all the time) and it states that Fulgrim died from Abaddon. Then again I don't know the timeline when the slave wars took place and when Fulgrim slices papa smurfs neck. Any info would be great, thanks in advance!

[Dammeron]

Their physical forms can be destroyed, but their essences will return to the Warp where they will gestate and return to the physical universe once more after a set period of time.

 

As for Fulgrim being banished and/or defeated by Abaddon, there is no "official" source that has ever stated that. I think that may be a case of conjecture on the part of the websites in question. All that available sources (the Emperor's Children Index Astartes article, the Noise Marines Index Chaotica, the Horus Heresy art books) have ever stated concerning Fulgrim is that no one really knows what happened to him: he led his legion away from Terra across the universe to the Eye of Terror, but after that details on Fulgrim himself become difficult to come by. It is rumoured that he retreated from his legion deep, deep into the Eye of Terror, where he rules over a kind of Slaaneshi Nirvana.

[Vile Siren]

Oh okay. I was wondering if the Black Legion supplement changed fluff and killed off Fulgrim somehow

[the jeske]

Demons can be killed ,only it is a very hard thing to pull off. You need either an high lvl psyker to dispers the energy/essence of the demon after his "body/host" gets killed or you need an entity that can absorb it and it strong enough to re make the energy/essence in to its own . Which more or less requires a demon or something demon like . Necron also have stuff that lets them "calm" the energies of warp which not as much kills a demon , but unmakes them .

[Chaeron]

Their physical forms can be destroyed, but their essences will return to the Warp where they will gestate and return to the physical universe once more after a set period of time.

 

Yup - I think that's pretty cool on the whole, the idea that they can still return (perhaps a more metaphorical enaction of an 'eternal warrior') is great. 

 

Makes me feel better when they get nerfed by a Railgun or whatever...

[Olis]

Based upon one the Eisenhorn books, to truly kill a daemon you need to destroy it's 'soul' (or essence or whatever). Iirc Eisenhorn managed it with a daemonhost called Prophaniti using his staff, which I think had Hexagrammic or Pentagrammic wards on it and the lodestone was made from a daemon-rock... thing. 

[daveNYC]

The Eisenhorn books were also based on a different flavor of background fluff as far as the warp goes.  More undivided action, less the big four are the only game in town.

 

No reason why you couldn't blast any warp entity so that it's so dissipated that it can't pull itself together again.

[the jeske]

Well technicly you could , the old ones pylons were ment to do that. Break up the  energy/essence that became sentinent in the warp and make it calm again. Only this is tech on level and power that dwarfs stuff  thatany race , save for the stuff necrons ,  can do.

The essence killing was done done in fluff not only in the Eisenhorn books . 

[Sception]

As for Fulgrim and Abaddon, we know the Black Legion feuded with the Emperor's Children at the time of its origin, but that whatever ongoing resentment there may have been between Abaddon and Fulgrim specifically was set aside some time between the Pandorax campaign and the start of the 13th Crusade, after Abaddon traded his special captive to Fulgrim for his followers' support.  Fulgrim then used that captive as some sort of host in a ritual that allowed the Chaos God slaanesh to transfer its consciousness into one of Abaddon's Blackstone Fortresses.

[Trevak Dal]

Demons can be killed ,only it is a very hard thing to pull off. You need either an high lvl psyker to dispers the energy/essence of the demon after his "body/host" gets killed or you need an entity that can absorb it and it strong enough to re make the energy/essence in to its own . Which more or less requires a demon or something demon like . Necron also have stuff that lets them "calm" the energies of warp which not as much kills a demon , but unmakes them .

 

Wait a minute-so Daemons can be killed...by binding them to something like soul stones?  If that's so, why wouldn't the Eldar weaponize soul stones and take them to every engagement with Daemons?

[daveNYC]

Er... not really.  The Dawn of War game had a daemon that had been bound in a rock by the Eldar.  It'd been stuck there for who knows how long, and it was stated that if the stone had been destroyed prior to all the killing that occured over the course of the game, the daemon would have been destroyed along with it.  A computer game though, so canon value is iffy.  The stone was still a corrupting force though, it made all sorts of people go eeeviilll, so even if you could use soul stones like a ghostbuster's ghost trap thing, you'd still have a problem with the super corrupting rock stuff.  Not to mention that soul stones are rare, so they're probably better used for keeping Eldar souls safe.

 

The Necron pylons (are they still Necron tech?  after the Necron fluff retcons I'm not sure) seem to work by calming the warp and/or strengthening the barrier between warp and realspace.  That's why the Cadian gate is the safest passage (virtually the only safe passage) in and out of the Eye, and the area looks like a little notch in the outline of the Eye.  I guess a metaphor of the warp as an ocean could work.  Say that waves represent the various entities and whatnot in the warp, the Necron stuff might work such that it forces the surface of the ocean to be flat.  

 

I know that Horus got his warp self smashed out of existence too.  What other times were there?

[Sandviper]

I know if you say the Daemons true name you can control it. But if killed by mere ballistics means it returns to the Forge of Souls where it waits i think its 100 years +1 or 1000 years +1 to return to its body. Inside the Forge of Souls the Daemons can make a deal with it and return early as a Soul Grinder until it has killed an agreed upon amount of mortals, but then the Daemon would get stuck inside an ever lasting loop of service because the number of souls erratically rises the closer they get to this number.  As being truly killed, the rest of the peeps got it right with needed some sort of psychic to destroy its warp essence. 

[bjoluemblem]

I believe that daemon prince's can die in the Eye, they disperse into the warp and have to reform after the X amount of time. As to what kills them, I think the above mentioned ways are plausible. As a side note, removal of the head might be enough to kill one. Korsarro Khan took off the head of a daemon prince, and cast its head in silver and placed it on the White Scar's special dead enemies road. Unless the head has disappeared from within the silver cast, its still there, and since the daemon is missing its head, it probably can't reform? Feels like a horror story...good 'ol chaos.

[daveNYC]

There's a lot of handwavium involved when talking about daemon corpses staying manifest in the materium.  If they possess a host, then the host material is still there, but then you've got serious conservation of mass issues when talking about greater daemons.  Any daemon who popped out of a warp rift should have a body made out of solidified warp stuff, which in theory really shouldn't be that stable even if the daemon is still going strong, much less if it's eaten a battle cannon round.  Rule of cool over all is nice, but it means that a lot of other stuff falls by the wayside.

[oddball570]

According to the Lexicanum, a Daemon can die a "True Death" - http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/True_Death#.UovzksTBPcM