Codex: Inquisition ally rules

[Gentlemanloser]

This is considering the Inquisition force as the special allied detachment.

 

Codex: Inquisition has it's own ally matrix, with (for the purpose of this question) IG as Battle Brothers and Chaos Marines as Come the Apocalypse.

 

Now, IG and CSM can ally between themselves.

 

So what happens if you have a IG/CSM list and want to take an Inquisitor?  Is it;

 

1: If IG is Primary, you can ally in the Inquisitor, as IG are BB.

2: if CSM is Primary, you cannot ally in the Inquisitor, as CSM are CtA.

3: Regardless of who is Primary, you cannot ally the Inquisitor as there exists on CtA

 

Also, if the answer is '1', how do the Inquisitorial units interact with the CSM units on board?

 

 

[Dam13n]

One would assume that the RAI would be #3

 

Now this would work as RAW if they state that "if your army includes an Inquisitor then you use the Inquisition Ally Matrix for that detachment"

- which I think would make a certain amount of sense.

 

However, if no such statement is included then one could easily argue that their IG Primary can include some Inquisition elements and still ally with a Chaos Marine force, if they so chose. (Now this can easily be justified as Traitor Guard and a Renegade/Radical Inquisitor colluding with a Chaos Marine Force, all nice and fluffy).

- One could also argue the vice-versa of CSM Primary allied with "IG including some Inquisition elements."

 

It's all in the wording.

 

To be quite honest, I hope they have left room for a way to include a Radical Inquisitor with some Guard in a Chaos Marine force, as we Chaos Players could do with another build option.

[Gentlemanloser]

The wording is (quite unhelpful);

 

 

INCLUDING INQUISITORS IN YOUR ARMY

When you choose an army, Inquisitors may be taken as a primary detachment or as a special form of allied detachment known as an Inquisitorial detachment.

If you take Inquisitors as a primary detachment, use the Inquisitorial detachment Force Organisation chart instead of the primary detachment Force Organisation chart. Alternatively, an army may include an Inquisitorial detachment in addition to any other detachments. Other detachments, such as allied detachments, additional primary detachments and fortifications can be taken normally. So, for example, you could field an army with an Imperial Guard primary detachment, an allied detachment of Space Marines, and an Inquisitorial detachment.

The Inquisitorial detachment Force Organisation chart has boxes corresponding to different battlefield roles. Each black box is a choice you must take in order to include this detachment as part of your army, whilst each grey box is a unit you can include as part of this detachment.

If you take the Inquisitorial detachment as your primary detachment, then Inquisitorial Henchmen Warbands are scoring units.

[Cactus]

How does it tell us to use the Inquisitorial allies matrix?

[Fibonacci]

If the quoted bit is all they say there is no restriction.  All you have to do is "choose and army."  As such you could take an Inquisitor with a Tyranid army.  Somehow I doubt that is all there is to the allies rule.

[Gentlemanloser]

There is an Ally chart for Codex: Inquisition.

 

I only know what the levels are though.

[CovertToaster]

I would say that you go off of whatever army you use as a primary detachment. So if IG was your primary detachment then I see no reason why they couldn't strike a deal with both the inquisition and the traitor's. If CSM were your primary detachment then there is no way that they would contact the inquisition and no inquisitor would walk into a situation where they were outnumbered by a larger CSM force.

 

I have no real basis for this in the rules but I would say that you use the ally matrix that's relevent to the primary detachment and, if inquisition forces aren't your primary detachment, then the inquisition matrix to determine how the inquisitorial detachment behaves towards your primary and allied detachments.

 

That may mean that you are forced to target your own allies if they come into range of the inquisitions weapons though!

 

Now for completeness if the inquisition is your primary detachment then you clearly use the inquisition ally matrix as you are only choosing an allied detachment at that point.

[Gentlemanloser]

The Codex has this to say on the matter;

 

 

Note that the Inquisitorial detachment may have a different relationship to the models from an army’s primary detachment, and the models that make up that army’s ‘regular’ allied detachment (assuming there are any). For example, if an Inquisitor was part of an army where the primary detachment were Imperial Guard and the allied detachment were from the Tau Empire, then the Inquisition would treat the Guard as Battle Brothers, and the Tau as Desperate Allies.

 

So how do you treat "Come the Apocalypse" allies?  There's no rules for that.

[thepowerofwar]

"Come the Apocalypse" means you CAN'T work together.  So no chaos Inquisitors. 

[Gentlemanloser]

The quote above form the actual Codex disagree's with you.

 

It just doesn't let us know how to treat "Come the apocalypse" allies.

 

Which are technically legal.

[Magpie]

I'm thinking the answer is 1. The allied relationship that determines whom your army can ally with is the Primary + Allied just as normal.

 

As to how they are treated I would say that they cannot interact with the CSM in any way. There would be no "looking over the shoulder" rolls but the Inq detachment would treat them as enemy units in a similar manner to Desperate Allies.

[Gentlemanloser]

That makes a Come the Apocalypse ally better for you than a Desperate Ally.

 

Which is weird...

[Magpie]

Why ? The relationship with the Primary Detachment is what is important and besides the Come the Apoc can't be taken if that is the relationship with the PD.

[hallodx]

It's arguing, depending on your aspect.

If you are a guardsman, first person, to you, CSM and Iqu can both be taken as ally.

But if you are an Iqu or CSM, you treat each other come the apoc.

So I would say, as long as the "Main detachment" is IG, go for it. But be ready taking BOOs from others for your 3' max scatter russ and dragon and beamers.

[thepowerofwar]

By my understanding is that its a 3 way alliance so by that all parts must be able to ally for it to work.  That's why it is not giving "special" rules for Come the Apocalypse. 

[hallodx]

By my understanding is that its a 3 way alliance so by that all parts must be able to ally for it to work.  That's why it is not giving "special" rules for Come the Apocalypse. 

What GW trolled us here is, the ally rule in BRB only ask you to check the matrix, that is, if A is B's battle brother, so does B and A. It never tell us how if there's a C, nor does C:Iqu tell you how it should work.

 

I'll check with my opponents if I actually play chaos...but well, I now only serve the God Emperor and keep no Xeno nor traiters in my house. Not my problem so far.

[Magpie]

"Note that the Inquisitorial detachment may have a different relationship to the models from an army’s primary detachment, and the models that make up that army’s ‘regular’ allied detachment"

 

That says it all to me. So long as the ID/PD alliance is OK then the relationship to the other allies doesn't matter.

 

Of course an FAQ will come out of this but hopefully what they were all smoking last FAQ session has run out and they'll do these FAQ's when they are straight.

[Cactus]

The Codex has this to say on the matter;

 

 

Note that the Inquisitorial detachment may have a different relationship to the models from an army’s primary detachment, and the models that make up that army’s ‘regular’ allied detachment (assuming there are any). For example, if an Inquisitor was part of an army where the primary detachment were Imperial Guard and the allied detachment were from the Tau Empire, then the Inquisition would treat the Guard as Battle Brothers, and the Tau as Desperate Allies.

 

So how do you treat "Come the Apocalypse" allies?  There's no rules for that.

 

I think the intention is that you can't form an army that would contain a 'Come the Apocalypse' relationship, but it would be helpful if the rules actually said so.

[Grey Mage]

"Note that the Inquisitorial detachment may have a different relationship to the models from an army’s primary detachment, and the models that make up that army’s ‘regular’ allied detachment"

 

That says it all to me. So long as the ID/PD alliance is OK then the relationship to the other allies doesn't matter.

 

Of course an FAQ will come out of this but hopefully what they were all smoking last FAQ session has run out and they'll do these FAQ's when they are straight.

Id disagree- Id say that they all matter, but they only matter to themselves.

 

Ie just because the inquisition is desperate allies doesnt mean anyone else has to suffer from the problems of keeping an eye on each other. But come the apocalypse means they cant ally at all. So you use that rule.... and find your army list isnt legal. Back to the drawing board.

[Magpie]

True I was reading the Desparate Allies thing wrong.

 

Thing is tho' does the Inq Detachment actually have to be allied to the allied detachment ?

[Gentlemanloser]

What happens when you have an Inquisitior, attached to a BB unit who then move next to an allied unit that is both AoC and DA?

 

For example, you have an Inquisitior attached to an IG Platoon (both Battle Brothers).  The IG Primary detachment is allied to Tau.

 

This unit moves next to a Tau unit who is both an AoC (with the IG) and a DA (with the Inquisitor).

 

Does 'one eye open' come into play?  How does the IG/Inqusititor unit react?

[Magpie]

What's more powerful, the IG trust or the Inq paranoia ?

[Gentlemanloser]

Money. ;)

[Magpie]

Coincidentally my son asked me last night if they have money in the 41stK.

[Gentlemanloser]

Souls.

 

Those of Psychers fed to the Emperor. ;)

 

(Or requisition, if you play Deathwatch! :P)