Using 3 tactical squads as a base for a list - loadout?

[segmentumobscurusstudios]

Hello all,

 

I'm coming up to the point where I intend to start work on my greenwing list and I want to have 3 tactical squads as the base for the list. What I want to know is what is considereda stable baseline loadout for three such squads? I have access to pretty much every option each squad can have so nothing is off the table.

 

Thanks

 

Dan

[Master Avoghai]

Depends if you plan to field standard of devastation or not. To me, plasma guns and plasma cannon are good weapons to complement the volley of bolts because it's good to saturate heavy armoured units but plasma weapons helps to kill the remaining 2models after the smoke dissipate...

I'm also fan of playing a squad in pod with flamer sgt with bolter flamer and a techmarine with harness and bolter flamer. It gives 4 flamer templates the turn they arrive and a scoring unit in the enemy's lines.

 

I've recently made a "combat company" list WITHOUT the dakka pole. The goal was to maximize the number of model and get a polyvalent force.

 

Here's the list :

 

Libby level1 infravisor PFG

Tech harness and bolter flamer (in drop pod with tactical)

 

3x 10 tactical PG/PC

1x 8 tactical (flamer/bolter flamer) in drop pod with tech

 

2x 8 assault 2 flamers/ PW + melta bomb vet sgt

5 RWBK one RWGL hunt master with melta bomb

 

2xWW

1x8 devy with 4 LC

 

72 models 1751pts

I recommend making the poded squad 6 man strong in order to play the devy 10 man strong. This would allow you to split them if necessary.

[Major_Gilbear]

Well, for your heavy weapon, LC, PC and ML are all popular. Each of the three special weapons is also good, though I'd rank them in order of versatility: PG, MG, Flamer.

 

Vet Sergeants with Combi wepons are also very popular, often doubling the special weapon (eg: flamer and combi-flamer).

 

Some people like to give their Sergeants plasma pistols and power weapons too (even power fists), but once you steer into the 15pts+ territory, you're going to want your Sergeant to get more than a one-turn-hurrah from his toys.

[facmanpob]

I'm a fan of keeping the the lascannons/missile launchers with the devastators, where they can be twin-linked en masse using Prescience. I keep the tacticals bare of any upgrades, save for plasma. So if I was kitting out a squad and putting specials/heavies into it, it would usually be a combi-plasma on the Sergeant, plasmagun and plasma cannon. I don't run drop pod lists personally, but if I did I would start to use flamers and meltas more.

[Major_Gilbear]

Well, I know that the "Las-Plas" squad has been a popular staple since the days of 2E, and the OP did ask for what's considered a stable baseline. I do agree though that the PC is a great choice, especially in this edition! ;)

 

Maybe something like:

 

LC + PG + Combi-Flamer? That gives you hard anti-tank if you need it (and it'll kill a troop a turn on its own anyway), a solid mid-range gun that is versatile, and a one-shot flamer for a target of opportunity or as a last-gamble response to being charged.

 

But really, with those three options for the three key mbers of the squad, you can't really go too far wrong as long as you either push them towards maximisation or towards versatility. Plus, you can combat-squad for additional versatility if you need to.

[facmanpob]

Yeah, there are a load of decent options available without breaking the bank. I think, overall, the best loadout depends on what you want your tacticals to achieve on the tabletop.

If the OP wants a bubble of bolter death, then don't put in any specials or heavies and sit them round the SoD. Drop pods favour the short range weapons. Plasma/multi-melta in a Rhino is a 5th Ed midfield loadout that still has a place in 6th Ed despite the fragility of the Rhino. Lascannons are good if you are taking Razorbacks and combat squadding, so the lascannon sits in cover while the other combat squad goes mobile in the RB..... We are blessed in a sense that no one loadout is "best"...

[march10k]

for 15 years, the foundation of my battle company lists has been three full tactical squads with plasma cannon, plasma gun, and power sword.

[segmentumobscurusstudios]

Thanks for the responses so far guys.

 

To be honest I have no idea if I'll be using the standard of devastation at all - at the moment I just want to get the core of my force done and work extras in from there. Its possible I'll never even play them (no group anywhere nearby) but I want my force painted none-the-less.

 

At the moment I think I'll go for one squad with Plasma cannon/Plasmagun, one with Lascannon/Plasmagun and the third I'm open to suggestions at the moment.

 

Whats the suggestions for vet sgt upgrades? Guns over close combat weapons?

 

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

 

Dan 

[Master Avoghai]

If you talking about a vet sgt then a CC upgrade is to consider as you pay for +1A

 

For the third squad I will really insist on the multi flamer squad. Even a marine squad has to fear it because of the number of hits.

[Major_Gilbear]

At the moment I think I'll go for one squad with Plasma cannon/Plasmagun, one with Lascannon/Plasmagun and the third I'm open to suggestions at the moment.

 

Whats the suggestions for vet sgt upgrades? Guns over close combat weapons?

 

I'd try:

 

1) PC/PG/Combi-Plasma

2) LC/PG/Combi-Melta

3) ML/Flamer/Combi-Flamer

 

The melee upgrades are cool, but expensive. Also, if you're relying on your Sergeant to help your squad in melee, something has gone very, very wrong!

 

Then again, they do look really cool with melee weapons! So... If you don't mind having a couple of "swap-out" models, I'd do an extra special weapon trooper or two, and an extra Sergeant or two. ;)

[facmanpob]

Whats the suggestions for vet sgt upgrades?

Don't bother with vet sergeants.... that's my suggestion.... seriously, save the points for something useful!

[FerociousBeast]

Ld9 on a stubborn squad is very useful.

 

I recommend veteran upgrade on assault squads and CQC tactical squads. Min-maxed stand and shoot squads and Devs can usually dispense with the upgrade.

[CovertToaster]

If you are going to do this then forget about vet sergeants and put those thirty points towards Azreal so his rights of battle can give you army wide Ld10.

 

Then it depends on what you want each squad to do. For me I would castle under the SoD and then my three troops units would all be PC/PG, behind an ADL, under an invulnerable bubble. But that's because I'm a cheesy, spamming, power gamer, and my opponenets cringe when I say Azreal, Librarian + PFG, Techmarine + PFG, Techmarine + PFG (That's 470 pts with no other upgrades!).

[march10k]

Yo, Toastmaster...PFGs are one per army.  And it's rites, not rights, of battle.  But, yeah, Azzy for table-wide LD10 is better than veteran sergeant upgrades all day long.

[Master Avoghai]

Yo, Toastmaster...PFGs are one per army.  And it's rites, not rights, of battle.  But, yeah, Azzy for table-wide LD10 is better than veteran sergeant upgrades all day long.

The PFG is not a relic. The only limitation is one per model, not one per army.

[march10k]

What???

 

/edit/

 

You mean I can spam PFGs?  Like...four per FOC?  Holy Bat:cuss, Robin!  That's pretty broken.  For 80 points (and I can do it twice), I can give a stand-and-shoot squad a credible assault deterrent AND a 4++, while also upgrading the cover save of another unit?  Golden Throne, that's powerful!  Makes me consider a dakkapole army for adepticon...Two techmarines with nothing but PFGs, plus a PFG-toting librarian with prescience and Azzy, three plas/plas tacticals, a lascannon dev squad, two bike squadrons, and a terminator squad, and look out!

[Master Avoghai]

It's a piece of wargear like auspex and melta bomb and those are not limited as one per army...

[march10k]

It is not as mundane as an auspex, but I get your point.

[FerociousBeast]

It's rare an extra 30 points will get you Azrael. If so, duh, 10 is better than 9, but Azrael is not auto include. Fielding him comes with its own challenges.

[rover]

PG and ML will get you a very versatile squad and I used that in the old codex a lot. Our Chapter Tactics isn't that great for 10 man squads. Any CC oriented unit wipes out 10 man squad easily and it's hard to break. Nowadays I run with 5 man squads with LCs supported by Razorbacks. Usually I field 4 to 6 of those depending on points. This provides good AT, god anti infantry and some mobility when needed.

[CovertToaster]

@March10K: I looked for any limitations on PFG's before I posted because I wasn't sure either but yeah you could just run a gunline with 2 ML1 libby's with prescience and 2 techmarines all with a PFG generating a 24" x 6" invulnerable strip. Whether you can cram everything under that I don't know.

 

@FerociousBeast: You're right 30 points won't get you Azzy, my bad if it sounded that way. The only reason I mentioned him was for RoB and he gives a 4+ invulnerable to himself and his unit which is sort of like his own PFG.

[march10k]

Actually, you wouldn't need to cram every model under the bubble, you just need the PFGed models (the meat shields, obviously, not the special models) in each squad to be closest to the enemy.  And it might be better to have four separate bubbles spread around the board to avoid presenting the obvious assault target.  It's not like you need to be 3" away to shoot up an enemy assaulter that just finished off your battle brothers.  With two of the PFGs being toted by techmarines, you actually get six 4++ areas, although two of them are only cover saves.  More than plenty to give an entire army 3+/4++ or better!

 

FB,

 

I'm curious...what challenges, besides finding the points, does including Azzy in a green army present?  Credit 30 points for a PFG and 10 points per power armored squad not upgraded with a veteran, and you've nearly amortized the cost of including him in lieu of the alternative.  He's not auto-include in a green army, but he's damned close to it!

[march10k]

Hmmm...another thought...isn't psychic shriek the second most popular default psychic power, after prescience?  Table-wide LD10 potentially saves 28 points worth of marines for every psychic shriek, then, no?

[segmentumobscurusstudios]

Good morning all,

If you talking about a vet sgt then a CC upgrade is to consider as you pay for +1A

For the third squad I will really insist on the multi flamer squad. Even a marine squad has to fear it because of the number of hits.

By multi-flamer you mean the squad with a techmarine in as well, or just the squad with the flamer/combi-flamer?

Whats the suggestions for vet sgt upgrades?

Don't bother with vet sergeants.... that's my suggestion.... seriously, save the points for something useful!

A good point, I'd forgotten that I can get upgradesfor my sergeants now without the pre-requisite veteran upgrade. So I guess what i should have said was what sgt upgrades to consider?

What???

/edit/

You mean I can spam PFGs? Like...four per FOC? Holy Bat:cuss, Robin! That's pretty broken. For 80 points (and I can do it twice), I can give a stand-and-shoot squad a credible assault deterrent AND a 4++, while also upgrading the cover save of another unit? Golden Throne, that's powerful! Makes me consider a dakkapole army for adepticon...Two techmarines with nothing but PFGs, plus a PFG-toting librarian with prescience and Azzy, three plas/plas tacticals, a lascannon dev squad, two bike squadrons, and a terminator squad, and look out!

Isn't it a nice feeling to find out something is even better than we though! Out of interest, how large do you think that list would be you've thrown in there?

If you are going to do this then forget about vet sergeants and put those thirty points towards Azreal so his rights of battle can give you army wide Ld10.

Then it depends on what you want each squad to do. For me I would castle under the SoD and then my three troops units would all be PC/PG, behind an ADL, under an invulnerable bubble. But that's because I'm a cheesy, spamming, power gamer, and my opponenets cringe when I say Azreal, Librarian + PFG, Techmarine + PFG, Techmarine + PFG (That's 470 pts with no other upgrades!).

Azrael is something worth considering. In fact I've been working on a conversion of him recently.

PG and ML will get you a very versatile squad and I used that in the old codex a lot. Our Chapter Tactics isn't that great for 10 man squads. Any CC oriented unit wipes out 10 man squad easily and it's hard to break. Nowadays I run with 5 man squads with LCs supported by Razorbacks. Usually I field 4 to 6 of those depending on points. This provides good AT, god anti infantry and some mobility when needed.

I'd be interested in seeing what your current 1000/1500 lists look like a the moment Rover, I was very interested in your pre 6th codex list (tacs, devs, aegis etc) and have been waiting to see how you are faring with the new codex.

[shabbadoo]

Ld9 on a stubborn squad is very useful.

I blew 4 out of 5 Ld 9 tests for my Tactical Squads this weekend. Still won the game 5 VPs to 1VP, but it was maddening to see two of my objective holders run...er...fall back strategically...off the table.

As to the OP, three Tactical Squads are pretty good, and in an "all-comers/all scenarios" list I would arm them as follows:

#1: Vet. Sgt.with power weapon; plasma gun, and either lascannon or plasma cannon. The purpose of this unit is to hang back and take/hold that objective in your deployment zone, (or one that is near to you in no-man's land), while still being able to lend supporting fire to the rest of your army. Some might not think that the Vet. Sgt. upgrade is needed, but the extra point of Leadership, precision fire, and extra attack will often be useful, especially considering how many outflanking/fast-moving units there are in the game, and that the enemy will be gunning for this unit. Consider combat squadding this unit, using the Vet. Sgt. and 4 basic marines from one combat squad to screen the other combat squad which should contain both the plasma gun and the heavy weapon.

#2: Vet.s Sgt. with power weapon, meltabombs; flamer, missile launcher. This unit combat squads, with the Vet. Sgt. and flamer going together as part of an advancing objective holding squad, and the missile launcher in the other combat squad which provides versatile fire support.

#3: Vet. Sgt. with powerfist; meltagun, missile launcher. This unit combat squads as well, with the Vet. Sgt. and meltagun going together as part of an advancing

objective holding squad, and the missile launcher in the other combat squad which provides versatile fire support.

Option #2 is obviously geared more towards taking out enemy light infantry, while option #3 is geared more toward taking out enemy heavy infantry/vehicles. in an all comes list though, it is good to have one of each of them. As usual, you don't want to leave the advancing Combat Squads of options #2 and #3 out on their own, but have other units aid them/run interference for them so they can accomplish their task of taking (and holding) objectives. Options #2 and #3 can benefit from Razorback or Rhino transports, while option #1 doesn't need either. If you don't like missile launchers, you can swap them out for plasma cannons, lascannons, or heavy bolters, depending on what weapon function is not well represented in the rest of your army. If you have points to spare, give a combi-flamer to the Vet. Sgt. in option #2, and a combi-melta to the Vet. Sgt. in option #3.