Best chapter tactic for a pod heavy list

[Axagoras]

I have some variants of a pod heavy list, form 9 to 11 pods and I need a chapter tactic that will give them the most offensive power. Most of the heavy lifting is done by a sg squad a comand squad or 5 man tac squads with a combi weapon and a matching special. I have narrowed it down to 4 chapter tactics.

4 Sentinals of Terra: I chose this over the standard IF tactic because im showing up right in the enemies face and making all my bolt shots (besides the SG ones) get rerolls will help but it doesnt help the special weapons at all

3 Red hunters: Having adamantium will will help vs psychic power but getting the special rules once per game is nice but a gamble, the longer I wait to use it the more squads it buffs but the less there are to benefit from it

2 Ultramarines: tactical doctrine will give some boons to all the units when the touch down even if there not tacticals, while the dev doctrine isnt exactly bad.

and 1 Phantoms: rerolling 1s on reserves and once per game making all non templates twin linked will give me a huge offensive fire boots turn 1 to knock the enemy off their feet and keep the pressure up with a semi reroll on reserves

What do you guys think is the best tactic for a list that relies heavily on MSU special weapon heavy marines to do all the work?

[infornography]

Salamanders.  With Vulkan they twin link all their flamers and meltas which means they have strong anti infantry and strong anti vehicle firepower.

[Muctar]

It's definitely a toss up between Salamanders and Star Phantoms. Salamanders have the boost to very potent, but short ranged, anti-infantry and anti-vehicle weaponry. Their chapter tactics necessitate the inclusion of certain weapons and a particular playstyle that is very aggressive in order for those weapons to do the work you need them to do.

 

The Star Phantoms on the other hand allow the re-roll of 1's for reserves which is handy for a pod list indeed. They also get twin linked non-template weapons for one turn per game. Yours and your opponent's turn. This means that you will deal a lot of damage the turn you declare and shoot, then will hopefully do some extra damage with overwatch in your opponent's turn, which is great. These chapter tactics are definitely geared towards knocking out the opponent's capacity to retaliate in one blow.

 

The major difference between the two are the longevity of the damage output of the armies. While the Star Phantoms deal the harder first blow afterward they are just normal marines with no real bonuses outside of re-rolling 1's for reserves. However, if things go as planned and you deal a crippling blow with the first strike, you shouldn't need anything else. Salamanders, on the other hand, retain the longevity of their favored weapons throughout the course of the game. They also retain their characters' master-crafted weapons and their re-rolls on saves for wounds caused by flame weapons. Both of which have limited, but effective uses when they come into play.

 

Overall I think both have their merits and that it ultimately comes down to how you build a list and play it. Go all-in and alpha strike with the Star Phantoms, or drop in in waves to cleanse and burn with the Salamanders. I also would like to state that there are other chapters that have their own synergies with pods, like Crimson Fists and Ultramarines, but that they aren't as beneficial as the Star Phantoms' and Salamanders' when running many drop pods.

[Axagoras]

I dont feel its worth 190 points for vulkan in a pod heavy list, mainly because it takes a pod out of the list meaning im down to a even number so il need to trim another pod.

[DarkGuard]

I dont feel its worth 190 points for vulkan in a pod heavy list, mainly because it takes a pod out of the list meaning im down to a even number so il need to trim another pod.

 

You still get twin-linked flamers without Vulkan. Whether that's enough for you though is another matter.

[Axagoras]

my list has about 6 flamers, 8 plasmas and well over 10+ meltas It would be nice to get vulkan but I lose 2 pods from the total

[infornography]

I find vulkan very much worth it.  Not only does he twin link all your melta but he also is quite capable in melee and a bit of a hard nut to crack being armor 2+ and 3+  invuln.  Yeah he is kind of pricy but he brings a lot to the table, especially if you are packing 10+ meltas!  And don't forget, he benefits all melta in the detachment, not just meltas on models with chapter tactics.

[Azash]

What are you using for an HQ? The UM special characters allow you to improve your reserve rolls. If you podding in that might be really helpful and thus dictate UM CT's.

[Axagoras]

My problem with using a 150-190 point hq is that forces me to drop pods from the list which weakens the overall list, and it would be nice to get vulkan in there, but when I land turn 1 I need all my fire power getting the most out of it because having played pod lists in various forms through 5th and 6th ed you need to create a breach and force the opponent on the defensive or it is all lost. That is why I really like star phantoms for that turn 1 where all my guns are twin linked. and turn 1 (or 2 if they reserve and try to hide) is when i need all guns blazing.

[Frogstar168]

Axagoras, I am building an all-drop pod army (I have 7 so far).  I have 3 dreads, 2 sternguard squads, 3 tac squads and a thunderfire cannon (and lots of terminators, but I dont see how best to use those with a drop pod army).

 

Can you explain how to "create a breach and force the opponent on the defensive"?  I am interested in real down-and dirty details.  Where to drop pods (with respect to terrain and different opponents), what units work best in the first wave, what to put into reserve, what types of units to target first, that sort of thing.

 

much thanks

[Axagoras]

i ran in a 1750 a list with 7 pods, 2 ironclads, 1 sg squad, 2 5 man melta tacs and 2 5 man plasma tacs, with a decked chapter master with a few bikes along with some speeder support, went pretty good (I have the bat reps up in liber victorium if you want to see what i did each battle) afterwards I realized the ironclads didnt have the fire power a sternguard squad did so im not happy running them in a pod heavy list. I usually try to land on 1 flank with the 1st wave to take and hold 1/3rd to 1/2 of their deployment zone while speeders and chapter master kept them from leaving on the other side, 2nd wave was to prevent them from launching a counter attack or try and take the other part of their deployment zone if they fled

[Iron Father Ferrum]

What the Ironclads lack in firepower compared to Sternguard, they make up for in resilience, since a lot of weapons in the game (including the basic firearms of all standard infantry) can't hurt them.  And since a single Ironclad can carry two heavy flamers, I'd rather run one or two equipped like that and let the Sternguard carry combi-plasmas or -meltas instead.  Let the infantry crack the armor, and the armor burninate the infantry.

[Axagoras]

the only issue i saw with running 2 of them was the entire enemy army turned their AT fire on them to slag em. There just want enough armor (pods dont count) to draw fire

[Iron Father Ferrum]

That's a fair point.  That's also why every pure-pod list I write includes a minimum of four Dreadnoughts (and a MOTF, of course) to ensure that an appropriate amount of armor saturation is provided.

[hallodx]

For anti armor, 3 melta in a unit is enough.

3 shots, 2 hits, average 7 for 2D6, so 2 pen, 4+ explode so there you go a boom!

[Axagoras]

3 shots 2 hits, pass a cover save, 1 pen 50/50 on weather you kill or not :/

[Scout Mentor]

Without seeing the whole army list it would be a tie between Imperial Fists and Iron Hands.

 

Imperial Fists.  With all of those bolter weapons the re-rolls are nice.  Don't forget your storm bolters on your drop pods.

 

Iron Hands.  FNP adds a little resiliance to the list and with all of those vehicles the IWND special rule can help.

 

SM

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Vehicle weapons don't benefit from CT:IF, so those stormbolters are just plain old stormbolters.

[minigun762]

What about Black Templar?

Crusader squads coupled with extra run distance should make it fairly easy to set up a second turn charge from a pod.

[d@n]

I think stop pods are probably the best tactics for black Templars, but that dosnt make them the best drop pod army

[Ming]

I'd say Ultramarine Tactics from the SM'dex. Turn 1 - drop in the elites plus libbies to take down high value targets. Turn 2 - drop in the tacticals with the tactical trait for the turn. Turn 3 - dev trait. Turn 4 - assault trait. As something I bring up fro time to time: Shooty dreads and devs should be part of the game plan and start on table deployed. They provide the support and distraction to the pods as they come in. Also - the dev trait is "reroll snapshots" which can be highly advantageous to address turn 2 or 3 flyers and FMCs.

[knife&fork]

I'd say Ultramarine Tactics from the SM'dex. Turn 1 - drop in the elites plus libbies to take down high value targets. Turn 2 - drop in the tacticals with the tactical trait for the turn. Turn 3 - dev trait. Turn 4 - assault trait. As something I bring up fro time to time: Shooty dreads and devs should be part of the game plan and start on table deployed. They provide the support and distraction to the pods as they come in. Also - the dev trait is "reroll snapshots" which can be highly advantageous to address turn 2 or 3 flyers and FMCs.

 

Looks fairly solid, although I'm not sure the points will be enough to bring all the elements in a sub 2k game? The only thing I would change is to not bring in your librarian early, if he's the warlord. Don't want that easy VP sitting around without plenty of target saturation. 

 

 

I want to try it, but so..... hard to give up those podding death company and frag cannon dreads :p

[Ming]

The 11th Company podcast had a bunch of discussion on a all-reserve army in the last episode or so. latest episode included a battle report discussion from one of their regulars using it vs a top tier tourny player, and it ended in a draw. The all-reserved list included pods, stormravens, stormtalons, etc. Was very interesting from a tactical standpoint. Played vs a farseer / mech eldar/dark eldar list.

[Axagoras]

could you link me that bat rep?

[Reichfaust]

My vote's for Star Phantoms. That first turn drop is when you really want the twin-linked weapons, and having EVERYTHING twin-linked, bolters and all, is going to make the alpha strike pack that much more of a punch.