Oh no, another Legion Character rules thread!

[Xenith]

I think I got around that with "all characters purchasing". Models that don't purchase the mark, such as plague marines, noise marines  etc. (who already have it) don't get the bonus.

[daboarder]

again I'd change it to, all units must have Mo"god" all units with Mo"god" gain the benefits.

[Xenith]

again I'd change it to, all units must have Mo"god" all units with Mo"god" gain the benefits.

 

The problem with that was the issue of the +1 WS (WE, or -1I (DG), if I say any character with the mark gains the benefits, then cult unit champions get double the bonus!

 

Maybe "the exception to these rules are cult unit champions".

 

I cant think of a way out. Maybe limit to independent characters only?

[daboarder]

no I mean it should go to every single model on the board with the MoN (cult units excepted)

[Sception]

takes it overboard, imo. Prefer OP's more reserved approach. Common mortal rabble don't get inducted into the cults, the legions include non-cult, post heresy marines (Thousand sons in particular), the Legions in the 40k era aren't the legions in the 30k era, etc etc.

 

Xenith: I understand what you were going for with the 'purchased' phrasing, just think it's worth the extra sentence to be more overt about it.

[daboarder]

sorry but any half arsed efforts may as well not be done, either allow legions (including the cults) to be fielded as full armies with proper support options or don't bother, but don't tack on some HQ rules and try to call it good. thats the same thinking that has lead to the current mess.

 

I certainly don't think the SM chapter rules are taking it too far, nor would cult warbands.

[Sception]

The modern legions, even the cult legions, aren't entirely comprised of cult marines. The insistence that any legion rules try to enforce that interpretation aren't an improvement on the current situation, imo. This isn't the 30k era. Surviving original legion members are lords and elites, veterans of 10,000 years of combat. They aren't line grunts.

[Xenith]

sorry but any half arsed efforts may as well not be done,

 

Likewise trying to do everything at once produces a heap of junk that nobody is happy with (current codex).

 

Modifications to cult entries can come later, this was just focused on getting independant characters up to speed.

 

You cant just apply legion rules to anything with a mark of Chaos, as per what Mal says above. If you just added all thse rules to everybody, you'd have cultists running about with T4 FNP, Tzeentch psychic spawn etc. Which may actually be cool.

[Sception]

I also feel there's worthwhile distinctions to be made between the appropriate scope of 'legion rules' meant to mirror loyalist chapter tactics, which are supposed to be mostly cosmetic; supplement lists, which are more elaborate variant lists with alternative wargear, warlord traits, maybe some unit variants, etc; and full separate army lists with completely distinct special rules, unit entries, and all; as one might expect from a completely separate codex or a FW campaign list.

 

For 'Legion Rules' a la chapter tactics, I feel OP has the correct scope. OP isn't trying to write separate legion supplements or codeces here.

 

 

That scope should be kept in mind in homebrew projects. For a homebrew chaos marine codex, once should ask in adding legion rules 'how much can I add before this is too much for one book, before these variant rules are overwhelming and obscuring the core list and concepts', and make sure you don't cross that line. Not that stuff beyond that line doesn't have a place, but apart from a couple special characters, if you're designing a unit that has no place in a chaos army that isn't 'death guard only', then that unit doesn't belong in a 'chaos space marine' codex. If it's a variant to a unit that does belong in that codex, then maybe it's appropriate for a legion supplement, but if its more radically different then that, or if the unit composition or special rules for your conception of a legion list are radically different from a core chaos marine list, then it belongs in, again, a fully separate codex or list altogether, rather than being presented as an option or variant within the core list.

 

Ideally there'd be a spectrum or overlap. A core chaos marine codex, presenting the typical chaos warhost (to avoid the maligned term 'war band') organizational structure, with enough built in variety to support a number of viable lists or configurations and a system of optional legion rule garnishes sufficient to flavor the core list to any of the existing legions. Then a line of supplements, which take that garnish flavor and extend it via unique wargear, warlord traits, unit variants, and maybe a couple additional unique characters or special rules. Then separate FW campaign style lists that expand the on the supplements with entirely separate army lists written from the ground up, drawing on the core list, legion rules, and supplements for inspiration.

 

But trying to cram that level of detail into the a core book, insisting that one book have nine or even five books worth of units, or that each unit entry actually represent five or more completely different units in practice, that just results in a mess. Maybe a mess that chaos players like more than the current mess, but a mess none the less, and not something better for the game overall.

[Excessus]

I'd go by the KISS rule myself in this...

 

Almost all you need for proper legion rules are already in the codex in some way or other...just not done properly...

 

For legion rules á lá C:SM, I'd actually say no. A warband can be much much more diverse than a chapter, and similar rules as SM does not cope!