Deepstriking Termies

[Vissah]

Like the title says.

I am building a Fallen Angels army and I want to know what is the best build for a 5 men Terminator deepstriking unit.

Played with Terminators before but never ones were I can give this many upgrades to.

Been thinking of Cyclone and Thunderhammer Stormshield but I been thinking about putting a Assault cannon on them or just a Cyclone and no Hammer.

So what you guys say is the Hammer Shield combo worth it or should I just leave it and go fully shooting (but the hammer shield looks so cool )

Thanx!

[march10k]

"best build" depends on the enemy.  Thunderhammers are cool, but the decision to apply AP values to melee weapons has made the storm shield less important, and the thunderhammer is really no better than a powerfist most of the time.  I would only take thunderhammers in two situations.  If you are only deepstriking one unit, then it becomes a big target and no price is too much to pay for additional protection.  And if you're mounting a unit inside a crusader, then stormbolters are useless, so thunderhammers win.  But if you are deepstriking three or more units, then the number of shots provided by stormbolters begins to add up to something useful.  Personally, I run a mounted knights squad, a mounted thunderhammer squad with a heavy flamer, and two squads deepstriking with stormbolters all around, plus cyclones.  As for heavy weapons, it depends on the mission and available points.

[Major_Gilbear]

I want to know what is the best build for a 5 men Terminator deepstriking unit.

 

I think that if you are only building one unit, then you either go with a loadout like the Dark Vengeance set's, or you go with a mixture of TH & LCs and a Cyclone.

 

If you're going for a few Terminator Squads, then the question changes a bit - especially if you intend to run either a Deathwing army, or Deathwing-heavy mixed army. :)

[Vissah]

At first, thanx for the quick replies it is really helpfull.

Well I am building 1000 points at the moment but after that I am going for 1850 cause that is tournament level over here.

I am aiming for two squads in 1850 points so probably the best would be just a Cyclone and and the rest with Storm Bolters cause I want to keep boots on the ground.

So basicly Cyclone of Assault Cannon becomes the question now.

Played a lot of vehicles in 5th and I want to do something else now and keep a Fallen theme going cause you won't be dragging a Rhino or Land Raider with you when you are constantly on the run

Thanx for the help and some more tips are always welcome

[Major_Gilbear]

People like the range and flexibility of the cyclone, plus the fact that it can go on any model in the squad because it doesn't replace arm weapons.

 

The volume of fire from an Assault Cannon is a good argument too however, as is the fact that it's in the same operational range that you want for the rest of your Stormbolters too.

 

I would suggest that you probably want a mix of both.

 

Heavy flamers are also fine, but they need to have more of plan in place to get best use from them.

[march10k]

I would only take a flamer if fielding a deepstriking belial in the squad or if mounted (which you have ruled out).  If you're talking about terminators walking out of your deployment zone, I recommend cyclones.  With a passed leadership test, they can shoot at a separate target from the stormbolters.  Since a cyclone terminator (unless you give him lightning claws or a thunderhammer) has a stormbolter, the cyclone is better than an assault cannon against almost any target imaginable (the assault cannon can penetrate AV14 and TDA, but only rarely).

[johnyocum]

If your termies are deep-striking without anything that is going to guarantee location, I recommend an even split of cyclones and assault cannons.  Both can put a hurt on nearly everthing, with the cyclone's krak missles able to possibly hurt every single thing that it shoots at, while the assault cannon can put out a LOT of shots with possible rending.

 

I personally use just one 10-man squad in my Guardians of the Covenant force, deepstriking with my 1st Company Grand Master, armed with one heavy flamer and one cyclone.  The Heavy Flamer can do a number on the lightly armored/horde armies, while the cyclone can do a lot of damage to vehicles (as you can split fire with them).

[Vissah]

Thanx for all the help everyone I know what to make of them now :D

Also a 10 man squad sounds really cool :D

[The Milkman Of Baal]

No mention of PC? Take its not a good option then?

[Major_Gilbear]

I like it as an option, and for command squads with an Apothecary, or for squads who will be in range of The Standard of Fortitude, I would add a couple in (for flavour if nothing else!).

 

But for a one-off squad with low numbers and high cost in a mixed army, the high chance of killing your own model on the roll of a 1 makes the choice far less appealing (to me personally). That choice is made less appealing still by having other models in the army that can have such weapons instead.

[Barnie25]

I have one with a PC as that can really deepfry other 2+ MEQ's and also be affective against hordes.

[march10k]

The only appealing thing about a PC on a terminator is that nobody else is allowed to have one.  It has the cool factor of 3rd (4th?) edition tactical squads.  In practice, it's "meh" when compared to other options.  The CML is more versatile, with higher strength and twice as many shots against vehicles, twice as many templates against hordes, and two krak missiles will usually kill just as many MEQs as one plasma template, and without getting hot.  The assault cannon is vastly superior to the plasma cannon when shooting at vehicles, slightly inferior against MEQs, vastly inferior against TEQs, significantly superior against hordes.  The heavy flamer...well, it lacks the range and AP of the plasma cannon, but it is a bigger template and it denies cover saves.  If you choose your weapon and then define the role of the unit carrying it, you'll probably end up with the PC because it's freakin' awesome looking, and it has novelty value.  If you define the role of your terminator squad, and then choose the best weapon for that role, you will never choose a PC.  No matter what you want the squad to do, there is a better weapon for that job.

[CovertToaster]

The only appealing thing about a PC on a terminator is that nobody else is allowed to have one.  It has the cool factor of 3rd (4th?) edition tactical squads.  In practice, it's "meh" when compared to other options.  The CML is more versatile, with higher strength and twice as many shots against vehicles, twice as many templates against hordes, and two krak missiles will usually kill just as many MEQs as one plasma template, and without getting hot.  The assault cannon is vastly superior to the plasma cannon when shooting at vehicles, slightly inferior against MEQs, vastly inferior against TEQs, significantly superior against hordes.  The heavy flamer...well, it lacks the range and AP of the plasma cannon, but it is a bigger template and it denies cover saves.  If you choose your weapon and then define the role of the unit carrying it, you'll probably end up with the PC because it's freakin' awesome looking, and it has novelty value.  If you define the role of your terminator squad, and then choose the best weapon for that role, you will never choose a PC.  No matter what you want the squad to do, there is a better weapon for that job.

This pretty much sums it up, the rest of the discussion comes down to what else are you going to play? If you have plenty of anti-tank units then krak missiles are slightly less important and with such cheap whirlwinds frag missiles are less important so I'm leaning towards playing assault cannons or heavy flamers more than cyclones now.

 

Since you say that you are not using vehicles to look as though you are "on the run" then you may still have a need to put cyclone missile launchers on every terminator squad. It just depends on whether the rest of your list can fulfill the role that you intended the terminator squads for. If you are looking to deepstrike often then assault cannons could be a better investment as they are useful against any opponent and have a statistically higher chance to damage AV 13 and 14 than CML's but that is solely due to their higher rate of fire.

[Sidguard]

Ok. If its just a 5 man squad, I'd suggest bringing them in turn 2 as a counter attack unit - plug the gap as required.

If you decide to go heavy Deathwing, I found two tactics work well -  Belial + either a 10 man squad with either heavy flamers (no scatter, torch a squad) or cyclone missile launchers (rear shot vehicles)
or a 5 man TH/SS command squad with a fortitude banner. Bring in the rest of your termies turn 2.

 

Make sure to place your objectives close together, Deathwing do well in a big old brawl, but suffer from mobility. 20-25 terminators with fnp is scary.

The other is to use the mech list (check the list section for the 1850 mech list) , or a variant of it - having a land raider with Belial in it for the teleport homer bubble is invaluable - it allows for turn 2 counterattacks. You can also do this with Ravenwing.

[Vissah]

I take the cyclone for the dual purpose of it and I am always scared for blowing up my expensive models with a gets hot.