hallodx Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Hey guys. Here's fluffy question, that I know a space marine chapter keeps it's own believe other then just the Emperor, but is it possible there exist concept from other religion, like Buddhism? I ask this because I'm painting my marines like Samurais of a famous Daimio(or a Lord if it's easier to understand) who believed in Buddhism. There's a concept called mujo, or Impermanence. The concept is complicated defined in Wikipedia, but long sentence short, that says "what exist now can't last forever", or more easier, death. I think it's kind of cool adding such essence into my custom chapter, but fluffy, will this leads to heresy? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283652-beliefs-in-custom-sm-chapters/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Growler67 Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 That would be the Chapter Masters choice but it certainly may invite attention and scrutiny by the Inquisition that would be unwelcome and uncomfortable by most.......to say the least. Having a Chapter take on certain aspects resembling Fuedal Japanese archetypes is something all-together different. Rituals, decor, weapons, sigils/emblems, symbology/heraldry and so forth can all take on such thematic tones as YOU the custom creator wish without it conflicting with canon within the 40K Universe. Instead of a regular (existing) sword blade (powered or otherwise) they can more closely resemble Katana styled blades or even Nodachi for a two-handed variation, for example. Style the backpack banner to resemble those used in feudal Japan rather than the "T" crossed "standard" provided by GW in current kits would be another option. Helmet decorations as you wish, mage (mah-geh) - top knots instead of mohawks or other hairstyles for those marines without helmets and so on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283652-beliefs-in-custom-sm-chapters/#findComment-3528336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallodx Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 That would be the Chapter Masters choice but it certainly may invite attention and scrutiny by the Inquisition that would be unwelcome and uncomfortable by most.......to say the least. Having a Chapter take on certain aspects resembling Fuedal Japanese archetypes is something all-together different. Rituals, decor, weapons, sigils/emblems, symbology/heraldry and so forth can all take on such thematic tones as YOU the custom creator wish without it conflicting with canon within the 40K Universe. Instead of a regular (existing) sword blade (powered or otherwise) they can more closely resemble Katana styled blades or even Nodachi for a two-handed variation, for example. Style the backpack banner to resemble those used in feudal Japan rather than the "T" crossed "standard" provided by GW in current kits would be another option. Helmet decorations as you wish, mage (mah-geh) - top knots instead of mohawks or other hairstyles for those marines without helmets and so on. Thanks for the reply. Wow you know a lot! But I'm not running a project so big. They will have only limited number of custom wargear, but the Kamon will stick to history. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283652-beliefs-in-custom-sm-chapters/#findComment-3528366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannus Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 I think this question is better served in the Liber Astartes subforum, but here is my idea: It is quite obvious that the whole Emperor concept/etc has some strong themes that relate directly Christian beliefs (note: this is as far as this topic will go on that), but there are other concepts and twists in the 40K univers that are "borrowed" from other religious themes (Greek Mythology and the Moirae Scism for example) as well. I would remain faithful these concepts. So how would I go about doing this? I would definitely not make this Chapter followers of Buddism. Instead, I would make them followers of either the Emperor - but portrayed in a pseudo (read as "twisted") Buddist light or of their Primarch (named in some tongue-in-cheek but obscure reference to Buddism) - that has obvious "undertones" that are essentially re-written for the Grimm Dark of 40K. I think that would be a lot of fun and also keep you from violating the rules of the forum . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283652-beliefs-in-custom-sm-chapters/#findComment-3528643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallodx Posted November 23, 2013 Author Share Posted November 23, 2013 Sure they will not follow pure Buddhism, that's very sure. They still follow the Emperor, only difference is some thinking is different from other Astartes, just like Hammer of Dorn love to pick fault from Ultramarines, Whits Scars train every marine riding bike, my Chapter add some concept for their marines to follow. They don't even know that's Buddhism I think, since that's before the Dark Age. Oh, and please move this thread if it will fits there better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283652-beliefs-in-custom-sm-chapters/#findComment-3528954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Growler67 Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Thematic freedom is not much of an issue. As stated and a quick Google Image seach will reveal a Spartan themed SM Army. One themed based on feudal Japan, as stated above, falls well within the creative realm of allowances. Even as far as to rename certain aspects of your Chapter. Your ChapterMaster can be your Daimyo and troop choices can be Samurai, Ronin and so on. Modifying their Chapter rituals and practices to more closely resemble those of fuedal Japan are also not out of bounds as long as the core beliefs are in line with the Astartes, it can be themed how ever you choose to justify it fluff wise. Deviating from Codex Astartes will be where you open the door to investigation or worse from the Inquisition, but you've stated that is not your intention so there is no point in whipping that dead horse again. Draft up a Chapter History and background and offer it up here for C&C. Members will review it and pick apart the elements that don't fall in line or may be too much of a stretch while you will likely also get praise on those creative elements that are not only flavorful and colorfully original as well. Others may offer suggestions for refining elements to polish your final product. Color scheme, weapon mods and so on are ALL up to you. Tactics will obviosly be based on or related/similar to their progenetor Chapter from which they were founded. Maybe their resemblance to feudal Japan could be due to their Homeworld as a causal factor. As an option, you may consider looking into the game "Warzone" and in particular, the faction within the game called the Mishima Corporation. The game is being rebooted and some recent pictures from their facebook page showed the resculpts of some of the Ronin Warriors. You might get some sculpting, posing and other modeling ideas when considering how to assemble your Space Marines. There are also MANY other sources for inspiration to be found through your favorite search engine if you feel the need. I ussed to play the Mishima faction back in the day when I played Warzone. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me, I'll answer what I can best I can. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283652-beliefs-in-custom-sm-chapters/#findComment-3529003 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefect Apollyon Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 All Chapters have their own unique customs, just look at the Space Wolves. Many Chapters also have their own unique-styled wargear such as the Black Templars and their Crusader Knight style, Minotaurs looking suitably Ancient Greek... The list goes on. So a Chapter that closely represents Feudal Japan? Must be one out there. Go for it, Power Katana's and all that jazz. And read the Chaplains entry, all Chapters have there own unique customs, so again adding certain aspects of a culture or its religion is fine so long as its not overemphasised. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283652-beliefs-in-custom-sm-chapters/#findComment-3529134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallodx Posted November 23, 2013 Author Share Posted November 23, 2013 Thanks for the encouragement! It is actually me lack of time and technique to build unique models one by one, so in the end decided to use existing bits and just theme them with color scheme. I built my bike IC tho, see my icon. I'll find some time take photos of finished ones. WIP sub I guess? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283652-beliefs-in-custom-sm-chapters/#findComment-3529150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefect Apollyon Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Post them up! And technique only improves with practice ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283652-beliefs-in-custom-sm-chapters/#findComment-3529164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 If time and technique are the only problems, there are several manufacturers of Samurai themed bits for SF miniatures already: Helmets: puppetswar,Kromlech, MaxMini Backpacks: Kromlech Banners: Puppetswar Shoulder Pads: Puppetswar Katanas: Puppetswar, and as a set. Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283652-beliefs-in-custom-sm-chapters/#findComment-3529202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord-Captain Cepinari Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 I have nothing that's actually helpful to say, so instead I'll just be a pedantic dick and say that "Believes" should be "Beliefs". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283652-beliefs-in-custom-sm-chapters/#findComment-3529448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 I have nothing that's actually helpful to say, so instead I'll just be a pedantic dick and say that "Believes" should be "Beliefs". Could be lost in translation. Perhaps English is the OPs second language. To the OP. There are chapters that have a "death cult" belief system. The Star Phantoms come to mind. There is another I read about recently but I can't remember who. Really, any belief system's core can be shifted around to fit a space marine chapter and still reflect the system of origin. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283652-beliefs-in-custom-sm-chapters/#findComment-3529459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorkimedes Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Salamanders have the Promethean Cult and the Mortifactors have some sort of death worship built around the Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283652-beliefs-in-custom-sm-chapters/#findComment-3529502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialIssue Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Remember even the Ecclesiarchy tolerates divergence from a totally set image/belief system or symbolism of the Emperor. They allow and encourage primitives to worship the sun in the sky as an incarnation of Him for example - in most circumstances the Missionaria Galaxia adapt and redirect compatible existing beliefs into 'Emperor worship' (mind you, obviously blood sacrifice and other barbaric traits are not amongst those tolerated). Generally, as long as its to/for the Emperor, then it's good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283652-beliefs-in-custom-sm-chapters/#findComment-3529611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallodx Posted November 24, 2013 Author Share Posted November 24, 2013 Great! I feel much ease now. I already planed to write the Chapter have their men work in Inquisition to avoid such trouble, like undercover, is that possible too? History is that Daimio actually had a lot of "eye sights" across Japan so he can have whatever information he want to know, as The Art of War said "Know yourself, know your enemy". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283652-beliefs-in-custom-sm-chapters/#findComment-3529640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord-Captain Cepinari Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 No, I'm pretty sure a Space Marine Chapter having secret agents in the Imperium would be one of those things that would get them Excommunicated, and then Exterminated. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283652-beliefs-in-custom-sm-chapters/#findComment-3529651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 No, I'm pretty sure a Space Marine Chapter having secret agents in the Imperium would be one of those things that would get them Excommunicated, and then Exterminated. Why? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283652-beliefs-in-custom-sm-chapters/#findComment-3529659 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorkimedes Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Well it would only get them excommunicated if they were found out and if they pissed off someone powerful enough to actually declare an entire chapter as traitors. The Space Wolves give a navigator house bodyguards in exchange for navigators to guide their ships so space marines do work with other imperial organizations. Don't see why a chapter couldn't have a close relationship with the Inquisition. I bet lots of Inquisitors would jump at the chance of developing a relationship with an organization as powerful as a Space Marine Chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283652-beliefs-in-custom-sm-chapters/#findComment-3529667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Growler67 Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Well it would only get them excommunicated if they were found out and if they pissed off someone powerful enough to actually declare an entire chapter as traitors. The Space Wolves give a navigator house bodyguards in exchange for navigators to guide their ships so space marines do work with other imperial organizations. Don't see why a chapter couldn't have a close relationship with the Inquisition. I bet lots of Inquisitors would jump at the chance of developing a relationship with an organization as powerful as a Space Marine Chapter. That is what they have the Deathwatch for....they don't NEED very close ties with a Chapter, they have the Deathwatch to do as they are bid by the Inquisition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283652-beliefs-in-custom-sm-chapters/#findComment-3529674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Except, there are Chapters with close ties in the fluff, so that viewpoint is invalid. As evidenced by the Red Hunters and Exorcists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283652-beliefs-in-custom-sm-chapters/#findComment-3529679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Well it would only get them excommunicated if they were found out and if they pissed off someone powerful enough to actually declare an entire chapter as traitors. The Space Wolves give a navigator house bodyguards in exchange for navigators to guide their ships so space marines do work with other imperial organizations. Don't see why a chapter couldn't have a close relationship with the Inquisition. I bet lots of Inquisitors would jump at the chance of developing a relationship with an organization as powerful as a Space Marine Chapter. That is what they have the Deathwatch for....they don't NEED very close ties with a Chapter, they have the Deathwatch to do as they are bid by the Inquisition. But the Deathwatch is specifically the Ordo Xenos' chamber militant, that deals specifically with xenos and has a very unique structure. Except, there are Chapters with close ties in the fluff, so that viewpoint is invalid. As evidenced by the Red Hunters and Exorcists. Agree. And I would add that the Minotaurs are rumored to have very close ties to the powers that be of the Imperium. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283652-beliefs-in-custom-sm-chapters/#findComment-3529682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 brotastic, on 24 Nov 2013 - 04:30, said: The Space Wolves give a navigator house bodyguards in exchange for navigators to guide their ships so space marines do work with other imperial organizations. At least according to the novels, this treaty predates the Heresy. So the contemporary powers probably simply do not have the authority to take issue with it. IIRC the Space Wolves are eyed suspiciously by some Imperial organizations though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283652-beliefs-in-custom-sm-chapters/#findComment-3529737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord-Captain Cepinari Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Ties to the Inquisition is one thing, having your own people spying on it is another, which is what was being suggested. I think. The more I look at that sentence, the more my eyes hurt. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283652-beliefs-in-custom-sm-chapters/#findComment-3529750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallodx Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 Ok so no undercover in Inquisition. I just tried to add C:I into my list and write story for it, so that came up. But I guess private agents across galaxy is acceptable? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283652-beliefs-in-custom-sm-chapters/#findComment-3530348 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord-Captain Cepinari Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 The sort of threats Space Marines deal with don't usually require much sniffing out. Space Marine caliber threats tend to be overt. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283652-beliefs-in-custom-sm-chapters/#findComment-3530350 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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