Mephiston, how good is he still?

[Barnie25]

I am going to try The Dark Angel Banner of Devastation. I will be fielding Mephiston when my finecast arrives as he doesn't deserve to be proxied!

[oreaper84]

if i recall neither mordrek nor draigo have ap 2. so i think mordrek shouldn't be an issue but draigo is tough as a coffin nail so id avoid that at all costs

[Memento Of Prospero]

I am going to try The Dark Angel Banner of Devastation. I will be fielding Mephiston when my finecast arrives as he doesn't deserve to be proxied!

 

He deserves an awesome conversion!

[RastlinD]

Mephiston is still an amazing beat stick his targets have just changed slightly. Anything with 2+ saves should be avoided, that being said the challenge rules allow him to attack squads with hidden power fists with impunity now. Attack the squad challenge the  IC with power fist and either rip him apart if he accepts and laugh because then Mephiston is safe from shooting for a turn or wreck his squad and not worry about the incoming attacks.

 

Really as I stated before the only thing he can not deal with would be the 2+ saves, but if you are using Ravenwing you should have other methods for dealing with that.

 

Enjoy using him in your upcoming games!

[ianj253]

Let's not forget precision strike's either.  That allows him to take out those hidden ap 2 PW's. 

 

He doesn't have to avoid all 2+ saves just the ones that have AP2 weapons and have a realistic chance of killing him before he takes them down.  I play Tau quite a bit as everyone and their brother plays them at my FLGS. He's great at taking down riptides, broadsides, and there 2+ save buff commander. 

[Chaplain Admetus]

Much as I generally dislike using named characters (prefer using my own where possible) I think, in all honesty, Meph is the best value-for-points HQ selection in the BA codex. It was previously the regular librarian, but those are really overcosted now compared to other marine armies (we pay 35 points more for our base model). Shame really... 

[knife&fork]

Getting him into the fight is the problem. He's probably not going to see action until turn 3 or 4, so make sure you have something for him to do. 

 

Then again simply denying your opponent a secondary VP like slay the warlord can be worth 250 pts on its own. 

[Morticon]

Getting him into the fight is the problem. He's probably not going to see action until turn 3 or 4, so make sure you have something for him to do. 

 

Then again simply denying your opponent a secondary VP like slay the warlord can be worth 250 pts on its own. 

 

? Why you think that KF?

[Memento Of Prospero]

Mephiston does not have to kill anything to impact the game. He forces your opponent to react and constsntly readjust each time he moves.

[knife&fork]

 

Getting him into the fight is the problem. He's probably not going to see action until turn 3 or 4, so make sure you have something for him to do. 

 

Then again simply denying your opponent a secondary VP like slay the warlord can be worth 250 pts on its own. 

 

? Why you think that KF?

 

First or second statement? 

[Morticon]

First one.  The not seeing action till 3rd/4th.

[knife&fork]

I see.

 

Because I find him painfully slow in today's meta. So even with fleet and assuming wings every turn he's unlikely to get into combat before turn 3 or 4.

Then there's the growing number of units able to take him down with (relative) ease. I often find that I have to play him very defensively, sometimes he'll do nothing all game but avoid the enemy or man an emplaced weapon. If you gamble in those situations and play aggressively one missed charge or wings roll means dead Mephiston in the enemies shooting phase.

Not the wrecking ball he used to be, more the 5th ed scalpel that Dante was with much more reliance on support.

 

The enemy is forced to deal with him as wolf_pack points out, but no more than any other unit worth taking.

 

Still our best HQ though :P

[the jeske]

first turn fly and run . second turn fly charge. unless your opponent set up closer then half way to his bord edge in his deployment . But if he did then he isn't caping those relics or objecitves that are not in his starting zone.

[Morticon]

first turn fly and run . second turn fly charge. unless your opponent set up closer then half way to his bord edge in his deployment . But if he did then he isn't caping those relics or objecitves that are not in his starting zone.

 

 

Thats what I thought. Your deployment and first turn flight (nevermind the run) will see him halfway up the board.  2nd turn will see him  3/4 up the board and within a decent charge range. 

 

Im not saying its impossible to happen- im sure it happens loads where he doesnt need to get into combat until 4th- but if thats the case then you should be winning the game.  But if you NEED him there, i dont see it taking that long usually. 

[knife&fork]

 

 

 

first turn fly and run . second turn fly charge. unless your opponent set up closer then half way to his bord edge in his deployment . But if he did then he isn't caping those relics or objecitves that are not in his starting zone.

 

Thats what I thought. Your deployment and first turn flight (nevermind the run) will see him halfway up the board. 2nd turn will see him 3/4 up the board and within a decent charge range.

 

Im not saying its impossible to happen- im sure it happens loads where he doesnt need to get into combat until 4th- but if thats the case then you should be winning the game. But if you NEED him there, i dont see it taking that long usually.

Actually I think it's the opposite. If he's in combat early it's because I'm facing an army I can easily handle, or at least have a good chance of winning against. For example in the last game I was up against a BA/IG mech horde combo with jump marines, chimeras and two flyers. Plenty of targets for Mephiston and he reached assault in very early.

Not a very difficult match for me and I would probably have wiped him if we didn't have to finish early on turn 4.

 

The times when he get stuck in late game (or never sees combat at all) it's because I'm up against something nasty.

I have to take a more defensive approach or lose him. Think eldar in general or a list with lots of force/rending/ID/anything low AP or 2+/good invuls.

 

Mephiston can get almost anywhere on the board quite quickly in theory, but that's worth nothing if he can't afford to be caught in he open or the target you had in mind is good at moving away.

[SamaNagol]

He's utterly redundant

[Morticon]

He's utterly redundant

 

What has he been made redundant by?

[Ushtarador]

My local meta has finally caught up on employing more and more LoS-blocking terrain, and the tournament we will hold in February will sport at least 2 LoS-blocking pieces per table. The advent of Tau and Eldar have made this a necessity in my opinion, the old 5th edition terrain just doesn't cut it anymore since coversaves are virtually useless. The game is a lot more interesting if you can actually hide things, and Mephiston is really easy to hide ;)

[SamaNagol]

Fast moving, long ranged, high strength, high volume of fire weapons like Eldar or the Tau missiles. And Grav Weapons on ultra mobile platforms which outrange him. Daemon Princes. Screamer Council. Jetseers.

 

He's very very underwhelming unless someone let's you get him in an advantageous position. Which is their mistake and you cannot play hoping for people to make mistakes.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Fast moving, long ranged, high strength, high volume of fire weapons like Eldar or the Tau missiles. And Grav Weapons on ultra mobile platforms which outrange him. Daemon Princes. Screamer Council. Jetseers.

 

He's very very underwhelming unless someone let's you get him in an advantageous position. Which is their mistake and you cannot play hoping for people to make mistakes.

The same can be said from any non-flyer model/unit without a delivery system. It's up to the BA player to display multiple threats. Once he comes out of hiding there should be multiple targets that your opponent needs to immediately take care of. If you are not in position to do so, then Mephiston is the only valid priority.

 

I've played him about 15 games thus far since picking up BA. Sure he is worth 250 points. But I've never seen him taken down by annything worth the same cost in shooting. He is resilient in the extreme when played right. If your opponent needs to commit the majority of his army to take him out, then the rest of your force is relatively unscathe and poised to inflict massive damage.

 

If you cannot create these conditions then you have wasted his potential. I am not saying he is invincible, but in my experience, barring terrible luck - his value is undeniable.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Phone double post!

[Morticon]

Only the Tau SMSs dont need LOS- and then they're only wounding on 5s and meph gets a 2+. 

The Eldar and other Tau stuff defs have access to dangerous weapons, but why is meph out in the open and not being covered by other units/vehicles/terrain?

 

Grav weapons have a range of 18" on mobile platforms - the most dangerous Grav threat is on Centurians- and theyre slow.

 

Screamer star is a huge problem, but saying a unit like Mephy is redundant because of 1 armies OP unit is a bit misguided. Additionally, if the enemy doesn't get the Grimoire combo off in a turn, it means that mephy can greatly thin the heard- The screamers are saving on 5+ (with forewarning) and every failed save they make pops a screamer.

 

Jetseer council wound on 2s but he still gets his armour save and 5 seers on bikes is the same cost -but you'll be losing half of them to Meph's hits. (I may be missing out on the combos available to them - but from what I know again- id hardly say they make him redundant). 

 

Gotta back up Wolf Pack with this:

 

 

" If you cannot create these conditions then you have wasted his potential. I am not saying he is invincible, but in my experience, barring terrible luck - his value is undeniable. "

[SamaNagol]

Grav weapons have an effective range of 30". He is utterly utterly useless against White Scar builds.

 

IF you play on boards with proper LoS blocking terrain then he has a use, but I am yet to find a board that does not leave him hanging out to dry for a turn between his turn one hop forward and his charge. Putting him behind vehicles? Unless they are AV13 or 14 platforms those vehicles wont be there turn 2.

 

Given most builds for BA, there will rarely be another threat comparable to Mephiston as the CC abilities of our units pale in comparison.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Grav weapons have an effective range of 30". He is utterly utterly useless against White Scar builds.

 

IF you play on boards with proper LoS blocking terrain then he has a use, but I am yet to find a board that does not leave him hanging out to dry for a turn between his turn one hop forward and his charge. Putting him behind vehicles? Unless they are AV13 or 14 platforms those vehicles wont be there turn 2.

 

Given most builds for BA, there will rarely be another threat comparable to Mephiston as the CC abilities of our units pale in comparison.

I usually obliterate those small bike squads with fragiosos in pods or sternguard. Once they are gone Mephiston comes out to play.

[Memento Of Prospero]

This comes back to tayloring around Mephiston. You need a list that can take out his counters so he can go to work.