Tank shocks and terrain.

[Raeven]

As badly as it is written, your interpretation is wrong.  You cannot move through friendly models.  You are not given permission to do such anywhere in the book.

 

see pg. 10, 21, 85

 

Both page 21 and 85 use the word "Still" when stating you cannot move through friendly or enemy models.  They obviously expect you to have made the disconnect when reading the rule on page 10.

 

pg 21 "Charging models still cannot move though friendly or enemy models, cannot pass through gaps smaller than their base, and cannot move into base contact with an enemy unit they are not charging."

 

pg 85  "A Tank shock is an exception to the rule that enemy models cannot be moved through.  Remember, though, that friendly models still cannot be moved through."

 

The only thing to remember is page 10.

 

 

Magpie

 

Then where is the proof of what both you and I are stating?

 

I wasn't adding words.  I was providing the subject that the sentences were referring to.  The subject being the topic of the paragraph.

[Gentlemanloser]

No it isn't. To move through something you must, even if only

momentarily, occupy the same space. That's why you can't walk through a

door when someone is standing blocking the doorway.

 

But you can if you both turn to the side...  Let's leave the real life analogies aside for a moment.

 

There is a difference from ending your move to occupy the same space as another mini, as there is to moving through the same space occupied by another mini.

 

If you cannot move through minis in the same unit, then *how* do the charge move rules work (as I've asked above)?

 

Also, Fliers.  Would you stop Fliers moving through the space occupied by friendly and enemy minis?  That's going to make a *lot* of them crash...  And really be unplayable.

 

So what do the rules about Flier movement say?

 

 

FLIERS AND OTHER MODELS

Models that physically fit under a Flyer model can move beneath it. Likewise, a Flyer can end its move over such models. However, when moving this way, enemy models must still remain 1" away from the base of the Flyer, and the Flyer cannot end its move with its base within 1" of other enemy models.

 

We see here that *Friendly* Fliers can move through and even occupy the same space as other *Friendly* minis.

 

But not Enemies...

 

 

You cannot move through friendly models.  You are not given permission to do such anywhere in the book.

 

Flier movement, as posted above.

[Raeven]

{sigh}  I meant, you cannot do so without there being a specific exception in the rules allowing it.

 

And, you cannot stop friendly models on top of a flyers base.  You are allowed to moved underneath the flyer, as if it was above your position.

 

Now throw that straw man away.

[Gentlemanloser]

Uh, no, you cannot stop friendly models on top of a flyers base.  You

are allowed to moved underneath the flyer, as if it was above your

position.

 

Where does it say you can't?

 

Also, even if you can't, you are still allowed to move friendly units *through* the space occupied by their base.

 

The restriction is;

 

 

enemy models must still remain 1" away from the base of the Flyer, and

the Flyer cannot end its move with its base within 1" of other enemy

models.

 

Nothing about Friendly bases at all.

 

Edit:

 

There's nothing I can see in the Movement Phase to stop you ending your move on top of another Friendly base...

[Raeven]

Your right.  My misread.

 

I've apparently missed the part where flyers can end their move on top of other models every time I have read the rule.  Always made the assumption that models can't occupy the same space.  Guess that's another exception.

[Gentlemanloser]

The Movement Rules and Tank Shocks rules are far too sparse.

 

There are restrictions that GW "have taken for granted" that should be written as rules.  In both sections.

 

I'm sure we'll all agree that you can't stack your minis on top of each other, and that you shouldn't be able to avoid a Tank Shock by the whole squad running through the tanks path, but sadly, there are massive ommisions on GW's part.

[Raeven]

Agree completely.

[Magpie]

 

But you can if you both turn to the side...  Let's leave the real life analogies aside for a moment.

 

 

Yes because we don't have a 25mm base that means that front on or side on make no difference to the space we occupy.

 

 

If you cannot move through minis in the same unit, then *how* do the charge move rules work (as I've asked above)?

 

 

 

Where is the a problem ?

 

 

 

Also, Fliers.  Would you stop Fliers moving through the space occupied by friendly and enemy minis?  That's going to make a *lot* of them crash...  And really be unplayable.

 

 

 

They, and jump/jetbike/skimmer units as well, have a special exception to the rules that allows them to go over the top ?

[Gentlemanloser]

 

If you can't move through the minis in the same unit, then you can't;

 

Quote

After moving the first model in the unit, you can move the others in any sequence you desire, providing you abide by the

 

following conditions:

 

You'd always have to follow the 'initial charger' section and always move the next closest mini to the target unit.

 

Which isn't the case.

 

You can move in any order, which would imply that you can move minis behind others, through those in front.

[Magpie]

Nothing says you can move them through. Between yes, around yes but through no.

[Gentlemanloser]

So you can't follow the Charge Move rules, unless you have your unit spaced out so that everyone can move 'between' those in front?

[Raeven]

Right.  Even the charge rules state such.  You "still" cannot move through friendly units or through a gap that isn't wide enough.

 

You move the closest model, then the rest getting into base to base with a new model where possible. 

 

It does mean you cannot move the model all the way in the back to the very front, without there being room to make that move.  You just have to create a path first.

[Magpie]

There is nothing that compels you to move the guys in the second rank before the guys at the front. Logic would dictate that the guys in front move first anyway.

 

No rules are broken if you aren't able to carry out your desire to move the back guys first.

[Gentlemanloser]

Right.  Even the charge rules state such.  You "still" cannot move

through friendly units or through a gap that isn't wide enough.

 

But is that a different Friendly unit, or other minis in the same Squad?

 

Once you've legally moved the inital charger, then other moves are subject to;

 

 

After moving the first model in the unit, you can move the others in any sequence you desire, providing you abide by the

 

 

following conditions:

 

The following conditions don't mention friendly minis.

[Raeven]

I typed units. I meant models.

[Magpie]

 

Right.  Even the charge rules state such.  You "still" cannot move

through friendly units or through a gap that isn't wide enough.

 

But is that a different Friendly unit, or other minis in the same Squad?

 

Once you've legally moved the inital charger, then other moves are subject to;

 

 

>>After moving the first model in the unit, you can move the others in any sequence you desire, providing you abide by the

 

 

following conditions:

 

The following conditions don't mention friendly minis.

 

 

They also don't mention charge range but I'm sure you wouldn't be moving any of them more than was rolled.

 

The criteria for moving are listed under "Moving Charging Models" , friendly models are mentioned there.

Again you can't read each section in isolation.

[Raeven]

Hahahahahaha!! Snort!! Hahahhahahaaaaa!!! Breath.

 

Check the FAQ. First question. We've been arguing like idiots for long enough.

[Magpie]

Hahahahahaha!! Snort!! Hahahhahahaaaaa!!! Breath.

 

Check the FAQ. First question. We've been arguing like idiots for long enough.

 

So obvious that we over looked the clarifying of the obvious.

Some times even simple questions have simple solutions

[Gentlemanloser]

Hot Damn!

lol!

Q: Can models move through other friendly models? (p10)

A: No. Models that are an exception to this rule, such as

Jump Infantry or Jetbikes, will state this clearly in their rules.

That's that then.

[Magpie]

So no more charging for you then GL ?

 

Hope you don't play Orks.

[Gentlemanloser]

It'll just have to be in a fixed order, that's all.

[Raeven]

Since that is settled, can we illustrate some scenarios where tank shock would kill?

[Magpie]

It'll just have to be in a fixed order, that's all.

 

 Fixed in as far as being infinitely variable within a set of criteria.

[Gentlemanloser]

 

Since that is settled, can we illustrate some scenarios where tank shock would kill?

 

Just about every scenario, now.

 

There is nearly no possible way to move the entire unit, keep it in coherency, and not move through your own minis...

 

Damn, Tank shock is deadly...

 

My 13 Chimera / 9 Razorback list looks deadly now...

[t4play]

I don't think I will try tank shock I'll stick to shooting and combat unless they can start moving around within 1" of bolter fire or move out of the way of a chainsword