Whirlwind Scorpius, Medusa or Vindicator?

[coloroutofspace]

I'm struggling on deciding what to bring at 1850 pts. Can anyone help?

 

These 3 seem so similar in what they offer. Medusa is the most expensive, but if I take two (which isn't decided yet), it's still one HS slot, and with the other two, it's one vehicle per slot. Whirlwind, with it's range looks like the best option, but at this point only on paper.

[The boater]

What else do you have in your army?

Cause if you have a lot of nuncio vox's then the whirlwind would be golden for you. (You get to draw line of sight from them)

If you have a siege master hq go for the medusa, cause phospex is awesome.

If the rest of your army is built to get up close and personal then the vindicator would be good for some close range tank brawling.

 

-The Boater

[DuskRaider]

Yeah, I think it's a toss up between the Medusa and the Vindicator. The Medusa is alright on it's own, but once you throw a Siege Breaker in, it becomes significantly better. The Vindicator is also awesome, will punch holes in almost anything your opponent fields, but is limited by both it's range and the fact that you can only take one per HS slot.

[SteelPaladin]

I would say Whirlwind, just because it looks so freaking awesome. I have never even thought about buying a Whirlwind kit before, but that Scorpius model is just too cool to pass up.

 

Go with whichever complements that rest of your army though.

[Russ Brother 92]

Aye - but regarding the nuncio-vox, they affect the Medusa as well (30k Medusa is Barrage), I'd personally go for the Medusa w/ a Siege Breaker (the high S will worry terminators, barrage iirc means no cover save and phosphex means wherever you throw it something's likely to die) - unless you're against an armoured fist, at which point Predators or a Vindicator are much better options (high S/AP weaponry) - however echoing those above, it still needs to compliment your army.

[coloroutofspace]

Thank you. I haven't decided yet, what the rest of the force should look like in detail, I intend to have it ready in time for Easter, but I want it to be based around foot-slogging infantry with artillery support. The rules for Iron Warriors aren't out yet, but I think we all know what direction those might take. But Death Guard is also appealing.

As I understand, Scorpius is Multiple Barrage, so no cover saves either - am I getting this wrong? And Medusa without Phosphex is still good - if I were to take Phosphex, two Medusas would be a must, and together with the Siege Braker that would be a few points. But hey, maybe well spent?

[Moonstalker]

Medusa:

Longer Range

Barrage

More Efficient Slot Use (squadron vs single)

Option for Phosphex Shells

 

Vindicator:
Better Armor

Higher Ballistic Skill

Cheaper

 

For dropping pie plates, I would rather pay the extra points for the Medusa and a couple nuncio voxii.  With barrage, you can hide it somewhere it's unlikely to be shot and deny cover saves with it (with barrage shots, cover saves and casualties are taken from the center of the blast template, so you can both deny cover saves and snipe models out of the back of formations).  Unless I know I'm facing lots of infantry and few vehicles (or I know I already have the anti-vehicle angle covered), I would not take the Phosphex Shells upgrade, as you lose the ability to fire at S10.  I really only like the Vindicator as a Laser Destroyer Array carrier.  The additional range will let it better protect its weak side armor, and it lets you get aggressive with your troops without fear of scattering a 5 inch blast onto them.

 

The Scorpius would give you the best range, lowest price, and best armor.  You also get the ability to try and walk your shots in after an initial miss through the multiple barrage rule.  In exchange, you lose a lot of the vehicle killing power (8 strength instead of 10, and no 2d6 from Ordnance) and TEQ killing power (AP3 instead of AP2).  With its armor, you don't actually HAVE to hide it, you can pretend its a battle tank and make sure you've got the best position for it.

 

Medusa has the best firepower of the lot, I think.  Also important to note that it can move six inches and still fire its main gun (giving it a threat range of 42 inches), while if the Scorpius moves at all it only gets 1 shot instead of 1+1d3, significantly limiting its on-the-move firepower (and basically negating half of the range advantage that the Scorpius has over the Medusa).

[The boater]

Aye - but regarding the nuncio-vox, they affect the Medusa as well (30k Medusa is Barrage), I'd personally go for the Medusa w/ a Siege Breaker (the high S will worry terminators, barrage iirc means no cover save and phosphex means wherever you throw it something's likely to die) - unless you're against an armoured fist, at which point Predators or a Vindicator are much better options (high S/AP weaponry) - however echoing those above, it still needs to compliment your army.

One thing to keep in mind about the medusa phospex upgrade is that it looses barrage so you loose the vox trick. If you were to take multiple ones then I would designate one as phospex and one as standard. That way you have the one that can support and crush with the str10 ap2 and have one for throwing arround some poisoned pie plates of dangerous terrain :P

 

-the boater

[Russ Brother 92]

I didn't realise you lost the barrage :( that makes me sad haha - here's hoping for Phosphex Basilisk shells...

 

OT - I'd say if you're (like myself) going for heavy infantry & walkers then you want short-mid range pie-plates in either S10 AP2 or S8 AP3 from either of the Vindi or Medusa - both are tough and reliable, the difference are small in this respect - however the Vindi can (as mentioned by a previous) mount a formidable anti-tank weapon, whereas the Medusa is ALL about smashing infantry and light vehicles. The scorpius I intend on using for anti-air tbh :)

[Moonstalker]

I didn't realise you lost the barrage that makes me sad haha - here's hoping for Phosphex Basilisk shells...

OT - I'd say if you're (like myself) going for heavy infantry & walkers then you want short-mid range pie-plates in either S10 AP2 or S8 AP3 from either of the Vindi or Medusa - both are tough and reliable, the difference are small in this respect - however the Vindi can (as mentioned by a previous) mount a formidable anti-tank weapon, whereas the Medusa is ALL about smashing infantry and light vehicles. The scorpius I intend on using for anti-air tbh

WW Scorpius can't take the Hyperios Missiles, only the normal WW can. Medusa also has S10 AP2, the S8 AP3 is from the Scorpius.

[Russ Brother 92]

If the Medusa is S10 AP2 Barrage then what I wonder is the need for Phosphex?

 

Ah I thought it would have something similar (when I first saw the model it cried out to be a beastly AA tank), ohwell long range barrage is cool, especially in 30k vs 40k Orks/Imp G/Nids.

[coloroutofspace]

I wonder if anyone these days is taking regular Whirlwinds? :) Or Hyperios for that matter? I mean, it's so poor - firepower, AP value. All Legion Artillery get BS4, Medusas and Basilsks hit much harder, have front AP12 and get a Heavy Bolter as a bonus. And now Scorpius - Vindicator armour with a different gun. And Hyperios Tarantulas are twin-linked, and Whirlwind is not...

 

Oh, and is it really worth it, to put Rapier on a Vindicator? It's 130 pts for... well, just a Rapier...

[Russ Brother 92]

I'd say for both theme and survivability having the vindi upgrade is quite nice tbh. however I don't think anyone uses the normal whirlwinds - I would much rather have (as you say) 3 twin-linked hyperios turrets for AA and Medusas or Scorpius' for Barrage/Anti-Infantry.

[Brother Captain Lucian]

Where is the "Why not both" meme..

 

One can never truly have to much firepower.

[Russ Brother 92]

my answer to that would be: 3 Medusas for main detatchment, then ally Mechanicus (Ordo Reductor) with 3 units of Basilisks, Whirlwinds and Medusas (1 of each) - now THAT is firepower, however adding it up you'll need it as the other team is likely to have a titan...

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Whats this about vindicators having lazer destroyer arrays?

 

Where did i miss that?!?

[The boater]

For a very nominal points fee the vindicator can exchange its demolisher cannon for a laser destroyer array. Increases the range and makes it into a nice hunter with the ap 1 but I'm not sure if it's worth the upgrade honestly though as you sacrifice the vindicators ability to throw arround pie plates at infantry making it much less versatile.

 

-the boater

 

Edit: this of course is in Betrayal not in C:SM

[jeremy1391]

The Scorpius whirlwind is what a thunder fire cannon wants to be when it grows up!

[Spinsanity]

The Scorpius whirlwind is what a thunder fire cannon wants to be when it grows up!

Damn, now I want to mount a Scorpius launcher on a set of Rapier threads as a TFC (and possibly quad-gun rapier in 30k)... :woot: