Tonal Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Hail fellow Astartes! Today I come before the honored Bolter & Chainsword with a passage from the honored Lexicanium concerning the origins of the Silver Skulls. Although not stated directly, there is a good chance the Silver Skulls are descendant from a company of Ultramarines from the Horus Heresy. Gulliman sent a full company as an honor guard for Barabas Dantioch, a warsmith of the Iron Warriors who had remained loyal to the Imperium. Dantioch and the company traveled to the world of Sotha, where a machine, heavily implied to be an Eldar Webway generator was located. Dantioch 'tuned' the device to point at Macragge, essentially turning it into a Warp beacon. Over the following months, in honor of Dantioch, the Ultramarines adopted a silver skull as their personal icons, mirroring the iron mask Dantioch still wore. Later many of the scouts attached to the company began to show latent psychic abilities; that of precognitive dreams, or what the Ultramarines called prognostication. Now, this seems too be heavily in the realm of Fan Fiction here. If I recall correctly, the symbol the Honor Guard wears is the scythe (in honor of the local farmers' traditions), not Dantioch's mask. Too me this seemed to he a gauge reference too where the Scythes of the Emperor, who were of course based on Sotha, got their namesake. As for the bit about raising the scouts' psycher abilities, I don't remember that at all. The passages' sources were listed as chapters Nine, Fifteen, and Nineteen, none of which mention anything about Dantioch's Honor Guard, and one of which doesn't mention Dantioch whatsoever. So, Brothers, am I missing something here, or is this just some (admittedly cool) fanon that's managed to infiltrate the Lexicanium? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283833-dantiochs-skulls/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Currently, it ia fanon. The Company was already at Sotha as it duty was to protect the Pharos device and many are wondering if there is a connection due to the obvious imagery involved(scythes, Dantioch's mask, Sotha), but nothing concrete has been added. Alrhough this relatively tame to some of the stuff that winds up in the 40K wiki. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283833-dantiochs-skulls/#findComment-3531463 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 There's theory that Dantioch will be the original Chapter Master of the Silver Skulls, and it does make sense... but that's something we won't know until after the Heresy, so we have a while to wait. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283833-dantiochs-skulls/#findComment-3531523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Týr Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Sounds like someone needs to recognize their failing and must be sure to correct it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283833-dantiochs-skulls/#findComment-3531528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 I still have an account with Lexicanum. I have no problem changing it. EDIT: Offending material removed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283833-dantiochs-skulls/#findComment-3531535 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Týr Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 I still have an account with Lexicanum. I have no problem changing it. EDIT: Offending material removed. Cool. Though I was just trying to point whoever posted that vauge theory with wrong sources should recognize that it's a complete no go and should come back to correct it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283833-dantiochs-skulls/#findComment-3531543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 I still have an account with Lexicanum. I have no problem changing it. EDIT: Offending material removed. Cool. Though I was just trying to point whoever posted that vauge theory with wrong sources should recognize that it's a complete no go and should come back to correct it. I know. But the person didn't even leave a note saying they changed it. So whoever did it just did it and went on their merry way. I doubt they'll be coming back. And if they do, I left a note in the discussions describing exactly why I removed the material. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283833-dantiochs-skulls/#findComment-3531548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 While that specific bit was rife with bad assumptions, lexicanum does allow for fan speculations, so long as they are clearly labeled as such and separated from the rest of the article. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283833-dantiochs-skulls/#findComment-3531554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Adding fanon to what is essentially the 40K wikipedia is a bad idea. It causes too many issues. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283833-dantiochs-skulls/#findComment-3531559 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Aye, fanon is bad. But fanon is not fan speculation, which deserves a spot on Lexicanum by virtue of it being a wikipedia type site. Fanon would be adding the official history of the Koretian Crusade to the Black Templars history and known engagements, even though it is your made up Crusade for your Black Templar army. Fan Speculation would be adding a section at the very bottom of the Blood Ravens, clearly labeled as unconfirmed speculation, that lists all the evidence that has caused many fans to speculate on a Thousand Sons origin. If that person had brought up only the world in question, and the symbol taken by the Ultramarines, not Dantioch, it could have fit in the Scythes of the Emperor article. If that person had stuck to Dantioch, not including Sotha or the Ultramarines stationed there, it could have potentially remained with the Silver Skulls article. I say potentially because that one consists of too many stretches of the imagination. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283833-dantiochs-skulls/#findComment-3531569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonal Posted November 26, 2013 Author Share Posted November 26, 2013 Ah, thanks for the quick replies guys, good too know it's not canon. Deleting it or labeling as speculation would be quite helpful. To be honest, though, I don't really understand the reasoning of the Silver Skulls being Dantioch/Iron Warriors' successors. The insignia aside, they don't share any similarities, really. The idea that one of the Imperium's most superstitious and pro-pysker chapters is descended from one of the Imperium's most practical and technologically minded Warsmith/Legion just doesn't make sense to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283833-dantiochs-skulls/#findComment-3531570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Could be an irony thing. Get it? Iron-y. It's just speculation to deal with the symbol, and the fact that they really don't act like Ultramarine successors. Like they're the only ones. :rolleyes: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283833-dantiochs-skulls/#findComment-3531575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Well, I could put it back up. Or at least a more evidence-accurate speculation. Personally, I've just never speculation last very long on Lexicanum. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283833-dantiochs-skulls/#findComment-3531582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Depends on the widespread belief in the speculation and how seeded it is with actual evidence. There's a thread on this site that speculates Emperor's Children gene-seed for the Fire Hawks, who become the Legion of the Damned. That would never live on Lexicanum, though potentially on the 40k wiki, which has lower standards. But in articles like the Blood Ravens, Primarchs, especially the Missing ones, you can see where it is allowed to stay. Remember, Lexicanum isn't just a summary of all of GW's publications. It is a wikipedia, albeit one that doesn't go that far from that in comparison to others. Things like fan speculation, fan responses, critiques, elaboration on fluff contradictions are all things that belong on a wikipedia site. It's about the gathering of all knowledge of 40k, with Lexicanum having higher standards of what constitutes that than the other 40k wikia. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283833-dantiochs-skulls/#findComment-3531588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Yeah, true enough. I'll add it back in a bit, but it will be altered. I'll put one up there with Silver Skulls possibly being Dantioch's successor due to his association with the Ultramarines as well as their symbol bearing resemblance to his mask. And then put one up in the Scythes of the Emperor putting to the share imagery with an Ultramarines detachment that had been stationed on Sotha. It will take some time as things are starting to get busy at my end. Cursed familial gene-pool gathering in the annual coven. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283833-dantiochs-skulls/#findComment-3531594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 So long as it is kept pertinent to the article, references actual evidence, there are no assumptions being based on other assumptions, and is clearly labeled as speculation on the part of the fans, I believe it is fine. That said, I think the Scythes of the Emperor speculation is the one most deserving of being added in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283833-dantiochs-skulls/#findComment-3531599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Someone hail Sarah Cawkwell on here. She needs to make it so. It would be her first 30k novel and add some diversity to just the books by Abnett, ADB, and McNeill (we don't speak of the Kyme or Swallow). Plus I need to see some Ultraboys die in a mechanical, calculated precision due to Dantioch's wonderful mathhammer strategy :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283833-dantiochs-skulls/#findComment-3531618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Brother 92 Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Depth if you want to see Ultras die in a calculated mathhammer way, call the Sire (Perturabo ofcs) and watch it in 3D :p I'm not sure, whilst it would be cool for them to be IWs of sorts they don't act like it - tbh they act much more like a mixture of WE foolhardiness/battle lust and WSs in their choice of going for the throat + their sacred 'Stormseer' Prognosticars... But either way I hope they expand on it at somepoint as with that of the Red Scorpions and Fire Angels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283833-dantiochs-skulls/#findComment-3531660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Well Dantioch would pretty much be the only Iron Warrior. The rest of the Chapter would be Ultramarines. But yeah, the ideologies would be hard to rationalize. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283833-dantiochs-skulls/#findComment-3531700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 The Silver Skulls were founded by Dantioch? Pffft. His heraldry is clearly a helmet, not a skull. And he's not a psyker. Wait. Wears an actual skull mask. Collects skulls. Is a psyker. Knows full well the power of psyker dreams and visions...the Silver Skulls were obviously founded by Sevatar after Roboute Guilliman turned him back to the "Good" side with the power of LOGISTICS! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283833-dantiochs-skulls/#findComment-3531705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 The Silver Skulls were founded by Dantioch? Pffft. His heraldry is clearly a helmet, not a skull. And he's not a psyker. Wait. Wears an actual skull mask. Collects skulls. Is a psyker. Knows full well the power of psyker dreams and visions...the Silver Skulls were obviously founded by Sevatar after Roboute Guilliman turned him back to the "Good" side with the power of LOGISTICS! CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!!!!! LOGISTICKSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283833-dantiochs-skulls/#findComment-3531712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyroriffic Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 You rang? (The wheels were a bit rusty, so I had to oil them before arriving...) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283833-dantiochs-skulls/#findComment-3576959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 You rang? (The wheels were a bit rusty, so I had to oil them before arriving...) *ahem* We graciously accept your acknowledgement oh great one. We were beginning to think the sacrifices were not enough... So..uh how bout them silver skulls and how would you like to make a novel about Dantioch founding them and general awesomeness? Please? ...we still have some more sacrifices if you need more appeasement.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283833-dantiochs-skulls/#findComment-3577034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 That original speculation was just wrong on many levels. There isn't strong hints that the device on Sotha is of Eldar origin. It's explicitly stated as working on empathetic principles, not psychic power. The Eldar are a deeply psychic race who use psychic power naturally in pretty much every aspect of their tech. It makes little sense for them to develop an alternative tech that avoids their greatest strength. As for it being a Web way generator... It could be an artefact of the Old Ones. But I think it's a Necrontyr artefact. The smooth black glass-like rock it's built out of recalls Necrontyr tech, like the pylons at Cadia, etc. The Necrontyr weren't psychic and needed a device that would let them commune and transit from place to place. Plus, all the hints about the garrison at Sotha suggest Scythes of the Emperor, not Silver Skulls. I don't see anything to tie the Skulls to Dantioch - one uses the Iron Warrior badge, which is a helmet and the other has an emblem with is a skull. And even if you say they look a bit similar, it's not like the "skull" is exactly an uncommon motif in 30K and 40K. The assumption that every UM successor that isn't codex compliant must somehow be traitor or Lost Legion related is a a very silly one. Grrrr.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283833-dantiochs-skulls/#findComment-3577359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Backing up the Sotha device is Necrontyr, there is already mention of other Necron weapons/artifacts using empathic power. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283833-dantiochs-skulls/#findComment-3577379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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