helterskelter Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 Not sure if this has previously been discussed but I'll chuck it out into the warp anyway. so the downright disregard either through means of evil/trying to be a good son/forced hands etc of the edict of nikea, why (apart from coz GW/BL say so) do those 19 remaining sons stick generally to other edicts? The big screaming one "NYAAARGH im going to burn the galaxy, but if you talk about those 2 guys again dad will be soooooo mad" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283949-breaking-of-the-emperors-decrees/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsanity Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 Well, the "we don't speak about the 2 missing Primarchs" thing seems to have as much to do with an Imperial decision as it has to do with the shame the remaining Primarchs still feel in their regard. Whenever I've seen 'em mentionned, someone always points out that HE doesn't want to be reminded of that past... Otherwise, appart from the BA, in Fear to Thread (I assume), which loyalist legion/s has/have broken the edict so far? (I'm obviously falling far behind on my HH readings...) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283949-breaking-of-the-emperors-decrees/#findComment-3533901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted November 29, 2013 Author Share Posted November 29, 2013 All of them, bar white scars and imperial fists to my knowledge Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283949-breaking-of-the-emperors-decrees/#findComment-3533905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 Not to mention GW's very adamant stance on the two Unknown Primarchs remaining unknown. If it is to be so, it will be so. At the moment, and for the foreseeable future, it will not be so. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283949-breaking-of-the-emperors-decrees/#findComment-3533906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted November 29, 2013 Author Share Posted November 29, 2013 Im happy not knowing about them, I just want to know what they did, its gotta be pretty bad considering how some legions are/were allowed to perform Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283949-breaking-of-the-emperors-decrees/#findComment-3533907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 All of them, bar white scars and imperial fists to my knowledge Both still technically broke it by not disbanding the office and not assimilating the Marines back into the greater Legion, from what I've read here. The White Scars sent theirs back to Chogoris, away from the public eye. The Imperial Fists locked theirs up wholesale within the Phalanx. Both go against what the Edict ordered. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283949-breaking-of-the-emperors-decrees/#findComment-3533909 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 So far the Night Lords, the Sons of Horus, the Death Guard, the Iron Hands, the Iron Warriors, the Emperor's Children and the Salamanders are the only Legions shown to be strictly abiding by the Edict. The World Eaters and Imperial Fists have maintained their Librarius but have kept it separate and apart from the mainstream Legion and out of use. The Space Wolves maintain the belief that the Rune Priests are not bound by the Edict. The Thousand Sons are a done deal. The Word Bearers and Alpha Legion have maintained and operated theirs in secret. The Ultramarines, Dark Angels and Blood Angels have reinstated theirs as a necessary countermeasure. The Raven Guard haven't officially reinstated their Librarius, but Deliverance Lost has shown that they aren't against using Librarians if they feel it is absolutely necessary. The White Scars have and haven't obeyed the Edict. As the Stormseer has responsibilities outside of those normally in the Librarian's purview, the office was maintained, but IIRC what I heard correctly, they weren't acting in the office as Librarians. I could be entirely wrong though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283949-breaking-of-the-emperors-decrees/#findComment-3533914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 When did the Ultramarines reinstate their Librarius? I haven't read Unremembered Empire yet, but in Know No Fear, Roboute responds to mass daemon attacks with "We must get the Edict of Nikea repealed", not "Librarians! Start being all Librariany or I start punching heads off." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283949-breaking-of-the-emperors-decrees/#findComment-3533925 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 In Unremembered Empire, the Librarius has been reinstated already, not unlike how it is with the Blood Angels and Dark Angels. One of the main characters is a Librarian. It goes by the logic that only the Emperor has the power to repeal the Edict. Within their own Legions, they have the power of the Emperor by proxy. Therefore they can repeal it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283949-breaking-of-the-emperors-decrees/#findComment-3533927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 And surprisingly he managed to convince a group of Space Wolves to go with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283949-breaking-of-the-emperors-decrees/#findComment-3533960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorkimedes Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 The big screaming one "NYAAARGH im going to burn the galaxy, but if you talk about those 2 guys again dad will be soooooo mad" I think this is a hinderance built into the setting due to most of the background being created as vague hints and tales of stuff that happened 10,000 years ago. The lost legions were thought up in a time when there wasn't much concrete info about the heresy but they're this giant mystery thats been building for a long time and anything thats told about them would be guaranteed to be controversial or a let down. Simply put I think its something that doesn't jive because the story is 20 year old fluff is being retrofitted into a narrative it was never suppose to be. There's bound to be hiccups.... just keep walking and look the other way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283949-breaking-of-the-emperors-decrees/#findComment-3533977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 The only built in hindrance is the stance that "there is no canon". That means those that create the fluff have nothing stable to build on or from, and it sohuld therefore be little surprise the overall story, just well doesn't fit. I mean, once you accept the Emperor isn't on the Golden Throne, Horus is standing by his side, and the Primarchs (even the missing two, Stevedave and Selene) are still romping the Galaxy in his name, then the edict of Nikea doesn't matter. In fact, it never happened. And the Dark Angels are all based on the folk from Plainsworld. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283949-breaking-of-the-emperors-decrees/#findComment-3533987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 Stevedave and Selene? That's a weird way to spell Dean Winchester and Wile E. Coyote. Honestly, I think you're being a little ridiculous with that stance, that there is no canon. There is nothing wrong with it. It isn't like we, the fans, are being hindered by that stance because, unlike something like Star Wars, continuity is not enforced. If anything, it'd be worse if they did, because then each and every retcon, such as the new Iron Hands, would be additions no fan would be able to convincingly ignore. In fact, we'd have actual retcons, rather than the additional perspectives or accounts where any or none could be the truth that we have now and call retcons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283949-breaking-of-the-emperors-decrees/#findComment-3533996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 And what is canon? Rogue Trader? 2nd Edition? 3rd Edition IA articles? Is it perhaps Kaldor Draigo? Maybe the Medusa 5 campaign? Or the Eye of Terror narrative campaign where the Traitors broke through the Cadian Gate? Just what exactly is canon in a background that changes from edition to edition? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283949-breaking-of-the-emperors-decrees/#findComment-3533997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 Usually, the most recent official version. Old stuff is retconned. Without any stable canon to build from, then there being no edict of Nikea, and the only Chaos God left is Malal, are just as equal and 'right', as any published material. So trying to debate the inconsistencies is utterly pointless. There is *no* consistency to start with. Personally, I totally dislike this. I think it's a lazy cop out by the company. That's a weird way to spell Dean Winchester <3 Dean! Edit: The Horus Heresy is a lie. None of that happened. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283949-breaking-of-the-emperors-decrees/#findComment-3534002 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorkimedes Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 There isn't even an Emperor.....Alpha Legion! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283949-breaking-of-the-emperors-decrees/#findComment-3534005 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted November 29, 2013 Author Share Posted November 29, 2013 There is one consistency, and that is the ultramarines were/are the largest legion. And as such the scouring will be filled with smurfs. Lots of them. Then the dark angels secretly break guillimans rules " yes thats right successors, you keep telling yourselves that.. wait who are these templar folk??" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283949-breaking-of-the-emperors-decrees/#findComment-3534008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 There isn't even an Emperor Of course there is! Dean Winchester became the Emperor, and the Great Crusade is to hunt down all the Daemons released from Hell the Warp. He's helped by his giant brother Horus Sam. There is one consistency, and that is the ultramarines were/are the largest legion. I think you're mistaken, there is no such thing as an 'ultramarine'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283949-breaking-of-the-emperors-decrees/#findComment-3534009 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted November 29, 2013 Author Share Posted November 29, 2013 Being from the uk and mildly technologically retarded I havent seen supernatural since satan killed odin and even that was a random episode on my part so I dont know what the smurfs substitute for Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283949-breaking-of-the-emperors-decrees/#findComment-3534013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 There is one consistency, and that is the ultramarines were/are the largest legion. And as such the scouring will be filled with smurfs. Lots of them. Then the dark angels secretly break guillimans rules " yes thats right successors, you keep telling yourselves that.. wait who are these templar folk??" You mean that 3rd Founding Chapter formed from Traitor gene-seed? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283949-breaking-of-the-emperors-decrees/#findComment-3534020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 Being from the uk and mildly technologically retarded I havent seensupernatural since satan killed odin and even that was a random episodeon my part so I dont know what the smurfs substitute for Probably Hunters in general. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283949-breaking-of-the-emperors-decrees/#findComment-3534024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Of course there is! Dean Winchester became the Emperor, and the Great Crusade is to hunt down all the Daemons released from Hell the Warp. He's helped by his giant brother Horus Sam. Your statement is made of heresy. Report to your nearest comissar for redemption via bolt round. The Emperor was John Winchester, Dean was the Primarch of the always loyal to daddy Imperial Fists, Sam was the tormented by dark visions and willing to embrace vile tactics Night Haunter, and Adam Winchester was the Dad's favorite Primarch of the Luna Wolves. With Bobby Singer as the often drunk Primarch of the Vylka Fenryka who called everyone else idjit a lot. Oh, and the overachieving Lord of the 500 Worlds and Battle King of Ultramar? That was Garth. DEAL WITH IT, HATERS! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283949-breaking-of-the-emperors-decrees/#findComment-3534059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Not enough Castiel of Colchis. "I am not a Primarch anymore. I'm your new God, a better one." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283949-breaking-of-the-emperors-decrees/#findComment-3534079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Whoa whoa whoa. This no canon stuff has been shot down already no? I thought I had read that months (years?) ago. There plainly is canon in 40K. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283949-breaking-of-the-emperors-decrees/#findComment-3534128 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 I was having a quite recent discussion with ADB about this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283949-breaking-of-the-emperors-decrees/#findComment-3534182 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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