Breaking of The Emperor's decrees

[Kol Saresk]

 

Has that changed post-Isstvan? I haven't read Scars yet.

I don't know. One minute I hear that scars doesn't have the White Scars using psykers and the next, I hear that it does.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

The Edict officialy banned the use of legionary psykers within each legion, whether they were called Librarians, Rune Priests or Stormseers. Some legions complied, and some didn't, in this case its as absolute as that.

The Space Wolves didn't comply, citing naming shenanigans, the White Scars didn't comply either, citing lack of caring of someone's authority when they are on the other side of the galaxy.

It was a big edict in theory, but in reality ended up only really being enforced when someone needed dirt on someone else to deploy his packs/Custodians/chaplains.

Are you able to quite anything to back up your openning statement? There's always lots of opinions thrown around on this issue. So it may be best to have specific examples to back up contentious statements.

 

Oh, and God Jul :)

 

Edit, sorry was meant as a general comment and not a criticism of brother Kais Klip

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

The Edict officialy banned the use of legionary psykers within each legion, whether they were called Librarians, Rune Priests or Stormseers. Some legions complied, and some didn't, in this case its as absolute as that.

The Space Wolves didn't comply, citing naming shenanigans, the White Scars didn't comply either, citing lack of caring of someone's authority when they are on the other side of the galaxy.

It was a big edict in theory, but in reality ended up only really being enforced when someone needed dirt on someone else to deploy his packs/Custodians/chaplains.

Are you able to quite anything to back up your openning statement. There's always lots of opinions thrown around on this issue. So it may be best to have specific examples to back up contentious statements.

 

Oh, and God Jul :)

Do you have anything "concrete" that defines what the Emperor meant when he said "Librarius" and that the Rune Priests weren't defined in that description? No. You know why? Because if there was something concrete, this wouldn't be a debate. But it is, and its an old one and tiring one at that. Nothing concrete can be shown that the Wolves were exempt. Meanwhile, the actions of the Wolves themselves points to them actually being bound by it, but still coming up with the flimsiest of excuses to justify disobedience.

 

And never once have the Wolves said they were exempt because they had Rune Priests. That is something the fans came up with. The Wolves believed in their exemption because "the power of their Rune Priests comes from Fenris", which is something even they admit isn't true in Prospero Burns. Everything points towards a knowing hypocrisy. And in reality, the only "bad thing" that does to the Wolves is put them on the same level as the other 17 Legions.

[Perrin]

We don't have the wording of the Edict itself. What we do have is the Emperor's exact words, which is surely the more important one. 

 

 

 The Emperor - A Thousand Sons page 355 

"I see now I have allowed my sons to delve too profoundly into matters I should never have permitted them to know even existed. Let it be known that no one shall suffer censure, for this conclave is to serve Unity, not discord. But no more shall the threat of sorcery be allowed to taint the warriors of the Astartes. Henceforth, it is my will that no Legion will maintain a Librarius department. All its warriors and instructors must be returned to the battle companies and never again employ any psychic powers".

 

 

An edict is a decree/proclamation made by a government, ruler or other authority. This is just an extract but I see no reason why this shouldn't be treated as the Edict itself, for lack of an actual Edict of Nikaea document.

 

Anyway, still my belief that the reason for the Emperor's ruling was that he had released how deep into forbidden lore Magnus had delved, and the things he had learnt were being passed on by his Librarius Project. The Wolves aren't tainted by the Librarius Project, and I'm sure there is a quote in the same book from Ahriman that says the Wolves in comparison had barely dipped a toe into the ocean of the warp.

 

 

EDIT: Posted before I saw Kols reply. I'm very much on the fence about whether the Wolves are exempt or not. I agree it is an old and tiring argument, and even stranger is that the only evidence comes from HH novels that were published a long time ago, and without further evidence it's strange to see it flair up again, especially as it is being discussed in two topics on this forum and another on Warseer.

 

I disagree with the watch-pack and BA though, I believe that they were hiding the Rune Priest because they were just one squad. Maybe if Russ was with them they wouldn't have hid it, but if the BA believe that the Rune Priests aren't exempt they would have locked this squad away, thereby causing their mission to fail.

 

Another point is why didn't Valdor do anything on the way to Prospero? Every time a Custodes has come face-to-face with a ex-Librarian post-Nikaea he has made it clear that the Edict is still in effect and if the Librarian uses their powers they will take action, even though in at least one case it would have meant certain death for the Custodes (Corax). Valdor has the power, influence and authority of a Primarch, is capable enough to at least hold his own in battle with them and had a large force of Custodes and SoS with him, why didn't he act against the Wolves?

[Kol Saresk]

The bigger question would be why didn't Valdor tell Russ what the Emperor's actual orders were instead of letting him believe Horus that the Sons were to be exterminated? You find the answer to that, you find the answer to everything else.

[Conn Eremon]

Technically, Valdor is in the same boat as Russ. Horus said that the Sons were actually to be destroyed, not imprisoned and dragged back to Terra for censure.

 

Horus spoke with the Emperor's voice, as given to him by the Emperor at Ullanor. Who is Russ or Valdor to disagree with the Emperor?

 

Sadly, both should have as by that time Horus was manipulating them, but neither of them should have been aware of that yet. As far as either of them knew at this time, there was no reason to doubt that the change of orders came from anyone but the Emperor, or that there were ulterior motives in getting them changed.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

Agreed Perrin, as I mentioned above, it is awkward for those wishing to label the VI Legion as acting against the Decree when they are depicted as openly deploying Rune Priests for the joint assault on Prospero. Maybe Inferno will provide another piece to this puzzle. Despite my user name, I've also always tried to steer a middle course :)

 

In answer to KK's question as to whether the Emperor meant to include Rune Priests in 'Librarian'.

 

The Emperor's words are what we have and they are concrete in the use of 'Librarian department'. As I understand it, the VI Legion did not participate in the Librarian experiment/project, i.e. they specifically did not have such a department. Why would the Emperor use such a specific term in place of psyker, especially given the role of Russ and Ohthere in the proceedings. See A Thousand Sons, Chapters Nineteen and Twenty; and Collected Visions, pp. 92-94.

[Wade Garrett]

A Thousand Sons actually claims that Valdor was eager to comply with the kill order, in the scene where Ahriman rips Wyrdmake's knowledge out, it mentions both Horus and Constantin driving the Wolves towards a war of extermination, although I don't remember if Valdor's motives are given.

[Conn Eremon]

Well, it could be revenge. I mean, consider what Magnus did, how many Custodes Magnus killed, either by fiery entry or by letting in a horde of daemons.

 

It could very well be a combination of his loyalty to the Emperor (He told them to stop and if they didn't they would become his enemy. Will, they didn't stop) and his duty to protect the Emperor (To his eyes, Magnus may have made himself the greatest threat) that lent him enthusiasm to follow Horus' change of plans.

 

Considering how manipulative and charismatic the Warmaster is, I can see that happening.

[Karthak]

 

 

Has that changed post-Isstvan? I haven't read Scars yet.

I don't know. One minute I hear that scars doesn't have the White Scars using psykers and the next, I hear that it does.

From Scars:

 

‘He was needed on Nikaea.’ ‘Nikaea?’ ‘A summit.’ The Khan gave her a shrewd look. ‘I would have been there too if I could have been, but Yesugei was my representative. He spoke for me. You see how much I trust him?’ ‘I do. What was he doing there?’ ‘Arguing for the right of the zadyin arga to exist. I hope he was successful.’ ‘And if he wasn’t?’ The Khan shrugged. ‘It makes no difference to me, but I would prefer that my more assiduous brothers don’t have to make a difficult choice.’ Ilya smiled. She had come to find the White Scars amiable indifference to Imperial edicts more endearing than exasperating. They weren’t rebellious, exactly, just themselves – no more, no less. Out alone. Unconcerned. They would never give up the Stormseers.

 

From this and other parts of the book it seemed pretty clear to me that Jaghatai would never have complied with the Edict. 

 

Speaking of the Wolves, mr, Dembski-Bowden has on this very forum stated that the Wolves are flat out wrong when it comes to the source of their powers. They believe it comes from Fenris. It does not. Ahriman was 100% correct when he called them misguided. It comes from the warp, like all psychic power does. ADB also stated that they are in fact breaking the Edict, and that needs to be adressed in the series.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

Speaking of the Wolves, mr, Dembski-Bowden has on this very forum stated that the Wolves are flat out wrong when it comes to the source of their powers. They believe it comes from Fenris. It does not. Ahriman was 100% correct when he called them misguided. It comes from the warp, like all psychic power does. ADB also stated that they are in fact breaking the Edict, and that needs to be adressed in the series.

Any chance of a link to that one - if you've no idea then I'll completely understand :)

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

 

 

Has that changed post-Isstvan? I haven't read Scars yet.

I don't know. One minute I hear that scars doesn't have the White Scars using psykers and the next, I hear that it does.

From Scars:

 

‘He was needed on Nikaea.’ ‘Nikaea?’ ‘A summit.’ The Khan gave her a shrewd look. ‘I would have been there too if I could have been, but Yesugei was my representative. He spoke for me. You see how much I trust him?’ ‘I do. What was he doing there?’ ‘Arguing for the right of the zadyin arga to exist. I hope he was successful.’ ‘And if he wasn’t?’ The Khan shrugged. ‘It makes no difference to me, but I would prefer that my more assiduous brothers don’t have to make a difficult choice.’ Ilya smiled. She had come to find the White Scars amiable indifference to Imperial edicts more endearing than exasperating. They weren’t rebellious, exactly, just themselves – no more, no less. Out alone. Unconcerned. They would never give up the Stormseers.

 

From this and other parts of the book it seemed pretty clear to me that Jaghatai would never have complied with the Edict.

 

Speaking of the Wolves, mr, Dembski-Bowden has on this very forum stated that the Wolves are flat out wrong when it comes to the source of their powers. They believe it comes from Fenris. It does not. Ahriman was 100% correct when he called them misguided. It comes from the warp, like all psychic power does. ADB also stated that they are in fact breaking the Edict, and that needs to be adressed in the series.

So it is an assumption reinforced by the office of Stormseer still existing but not actually shown to be true? I'm going to leave the White Scars as "Toeing the Line".

[Kol Saresk]

This thread makes me love Russ even more. My only comment is that the lack of Freki and Geri so far is ball-achingly tragic.

 

One thing you'll find in the series - at least that I've noticed - is that the more each author does, the more you notice their style on the factions they write about. All of us have different styles, including Alan on the Forge World books. As an example, in Fear to Tread, you've got the notion that Khorne really wanted the Blood Angels the most, and that Horus is actively scared of Sanguinius, and jealous to the point he wants the Angel dead rather than on his side, in case Sanguinius gets chosen as the new favourite of the Ruinous Powers.

 

Similarly, in Prospero Burns, you've got the Wolves repeatedly talked up as the "best" warriors; the most savage (which has always been the World Eaters in 25 years of background); and even in their novel's trailer they're explained as the one Legion badass enough to take down other Legions, despite that not making a huge amount of sense, given that they're smaller than most, and not actually any better at fighting Marines than any other Marine is. They're also breaking the Edict of Nikea, which is something the series really should deal with sooner rather than later.

 

Also, in Prospero Burns, despite the fact that we know full well Leman Russ was deceived into attacking Prospero and killing Magnus the Red, that novel shows Russ doing everything he can to avoid that fate.

 

This has even drifted through the HH team, where I've had to ask, in a meeting, "Wait, wait, wait... The Wolves aren't actually better, are they? Are we really saying they are?" at which point one of the lore overlords chuckled and shook his head in the negative. And along the same lines, it's an interesting idea that Khorne wanted the Blood Angels more than the World Eaters, but it's one of those in-universe assumptions that's believable enough to be real, or could be biased nonsense (like all the best inferences). I dig that stuff, as long as it's not given proof. Because not everything needs to be subverted. A lot of the background is already awesome, which is why I try not to change very much of it - making me fairly conservative and perhaps a little boring compared to a lot of the writing team. Giving it yet more revelation isn't always necessary, but implying alternate truths is rad. There's always more than one side to a story, after all.

 

I've seen mentions online that since the Blood Angels and the Space Wolves are the largest fandoms (by a bajillion miles) that this is pandering to them, to win favour with the hugest fanbases, but I think that's disingenuous. The style of those novels does create a lot of flux and controversy (especially when more balanced novels later contradict them) but they're just a result of different writing styles. You'll get that in every series, and Russ is probably one of the characters that has gone through the most of it. We know what he did in the famous, established background. We know what he did in A Thousand Sons, contradicted in Prospero Burns, and some of the more bombastic claims in the latter were then given a more grounded context in Betrayer.

 

Russ has, so far, had very little written about him, from the POV of anyone really close to him. Even in Prospero Burns, we saw relatively little of his internal processes, or even those close by getting to interpret his actions. What we have so far is inference and assumption, and a really awesome thread has risen from it. I'd love to see more of him, or just the Wolves in general.

I've bolded and underlined the sentence in question to help pick it out, but left the rest of the post intact so you can have an idea of the context.

[Perrin]

Has that changed post-Isstvan? I haven't read Scars yet.

I don't know. One minute I hear that scars doesn't have the White Scars using psykers and the next, I hear that it does.

From Scars:

‘He was needed on Nikaea.’ ‘Nikaea?’ ‘A summit.’ The Khan gave her a shrewd look. ‘I would have been there too if I could have been, but Yesugei was my representative. He spoke for me. You see how much I trust him?’ ‘I do. What was he doing there?’ ‘Arguing for the right of the zadyin arga to exist. I hope he was successful.’ ‘And if he wasn’t?’ The Khan shrugged. ‘It makes no difference to me, but I would prefer that my more assiduous brothers don’t have to make a difficult choice.’ Ilya smiled. She had come to find the White Scars amiable indifference to Imperial edicts more endearing than exasperating. They weren’t rebellious, exactly, just themselves – no more, no less. Out alone. Unconcerned. They would never give up the Stormseers.

From this and other parts of the book it seemed pretty clear to me that Jaghatai would never have complied with the Edict.

Speaking of the Wolves, mr, Dembski-Bowden has on this very forum stated that the Wolves are flat out wrong when it comes to the source of their powers. They believe it comes from Fenris. It does not. Ahriman was 100% correct when he called them misguided. It comes from the warp, like all psychic power does. ADB also stated that they are in fact breaking the Edict, and that needs to be adressed in the series.

So it is an assumption reinforced by the office of Stormseer still existing but not actually shown to be true? I'm going to leave the White Scars as "Toeing the Line".

From that quote from Scars it seems pretty clear that the Khan would have allowed the Stormseers to remain as Librarians as well as their other roles.

This is probably the closest I've come to disagreeing with ADB... but no, I'm not that stubborn.

That post from ADB that Kol posted basically ends the discussion then. I thought the whole "not corrupted by Magnus" thing was a good angle for the Wolves but alas.

As for Valdor, I hope he dies. I really don't like the way the Custodes seem so arrogant. Maybe Valdor will turn traitor? There is no word of him dying a heroes death or surviving beyond the Heresy.

[Kol Saresk]

Still, its kind of one of those things where because it is a possibility, doesn't quite mean its fact. My "Toeing the Line" section is the section where I put the Legions that are in a position to break the Edict, but haven't quite taken that step.

 

For example, the Stormseers. We know they are likely to have ignored the Edict, but we won't know until we actually see it. Or the lone Blood Angel. Will he be censured? Or will he be reinstated? And the Raven Guard. So far, one ex-Librarian has been given permission to use his powers one time, while under supervision. Will that be the only time? Or will it simply be the first of the dominoes?

 

At the moment, Valdor seems to be one of those "I will do whatever I see fit to protect that which I serve, even if it goes against the wishes of the one I serve."

 

For example, going along with Malcador in an assassination attempt on Horus, or helping Horus get Russ' bloodlust up.

[Kais Klip]

I don't understand how there is a debate about the Edict; do we not all agree that:

 

1) Nikea happened

2) The Emperor proclaimed an edict to the spirit of: all legionary Librarians (read: serf psykers still allowed) being disbanded and their psychic uses discarded

 

I don't understand where the confusion regarding this issue is coming from, is someone arguing that Librarians were never forbidden in the legions, or are they confusing for them being forbidden with the legions actually having to comply?

 

And regarding Scars, a Scar Stormseer opens up full force with his powers on a hostile Salamander/Iron Hands boarding party before they tell him of the Isstvan atrocity, showing us that Scars do not need any hint of a galaxy turning over its head to break the edict, unlike the Ultramarines for example. From that we can insinuate that White Scats continued using their psychic powers post Nikea and pre-betrayal, and without any extreme catalyst.

 

Going further on that point, the Khan and his Stormseers viewed the whole edict as "foolishness", and once again I mention that ordinary legionaries payed open respect to any Stormseers they encountered before any sign of treachery was confirmed.

 

Edit: I have and can traul through and paste the evidence from the Scars series, I'm just lost as to what the motion we're debating about is (who we burnin' gais?)

 

And on Valdor, it was remarked (Outcast Dead, if we're going all academic here) that his and Custodes primary duty is to protect the Emperor, while the Astartes' (specifically Dorn's) is to safeguard the Imperium.

 

Thus I take it that Valdor would sacrifice the Imperium to protect the Emperor, while Dorn would sacrifice the Emperor to protect the Imperium.

 

Edit 2: Apologies for the Editing, addressing another post:

 

 

 

The Edict officialy banned the use of legionary psykers within each legion, whether they were called Librarians, Rune Priests or Stormseers. Some legions complied, and some didn't, in this case its as absolute as that.

The Space Wolves didn't comply, citing naming shenanigans, the White Scars didn't comply either, citing lack of caring of someone's authority when they are on the other side of the galaxy.

It was a big edict in theory, but in reality ended up only really being enforced when someone needed dirt on someone else to deploy his packs/Custodians/chaplains.

Are you able to quite anything to back up your openning statement? There's always lots of opinions thrown around on this issue. So it may be best to have specific examples to back up contentious statements.

Oh, and God Jul :)

Edit, sorry was meant as a general comment and not a criticism of brother Kais Klip

1) Nikea in any book (see my question above)

2) Rune Priests are still clattering sticks while high (Prospero burns), White Scars are psychicly purging boarding parties (Scars), thus two examples of no compliance to "No more librarians"'

3) Lack of enforcement is evidenced by the tolerance towards Rune Priests and Stormseers (latter might be forgiven due to distance/logistical issues of dealing with a scout legion.

 

Edit 3: Are we taking the razing of Prospero to be a general case of enforcement? Because that would be invalid to my mind: we can't assume Magnus was punished for maintaining Librarians in his force. He was punished because he interrupted the Emperor's work, and the Emperor justified his punishment by outlying another error of Magnus' (gathering up dirt) similar to what he did at Monarchia with Lorgar ("Don't worship me" punished as "your legion is too slow").

[Kol Saresk]

Okay, I'm confused. Where in Scars is the Stormseer going all-out? I ask because the last time I asked I was just given a quote that said they thought the Edict was stupid. So have they or have they not, broken the Edict by using psychic powers? And for the sake of clarity, which Episode is this in?

[Kais Klip]

Apologies Kol, that was me saying they fought it was stupid, and they did think that, but when I said that I didn't realise the following happened before Scars had any knowledge of Betrayal:

 

Episode V:

 

Twelve ozone-bangs radiated blast shocks through the bridge atmosphere, crackling and solidifying into Space Marines in dark power armour. They swung out of their teleport zones and scattered across the deck with their weapons trained.

‘Stand down!’ roared a monstrous voice from a war-helm, deafening in its artificial amplification. ‘Surrender the ship!’

‘Do not be foolish,’ replied Yesugei calmly in Gothic. ‘Please, put weapons away.’

Twelve muzzles immediately locked on to him.

‘Storm-witch!’ shouted one of the boarders.

 

All twelve weapons opened up in that instant: a drum of bolt shells, followed up by the furnace-rush of a flamer’s discharge.

Yesugei raised his staff, and the projectiles exploded in front of him in a shower of spilled force. For a brief moment he was wreathed in a wall of noise and seething fury, then it ripped away.

‘This is foolish,’ he said, his voice as placid as if he were still alone on the Altak.

The twelve invaders charged toward Yesugei, leaping across balcony-rails and swerving around console stations, firing all the while.

He slammed his staff down and spears of lightning burst along its length, outshining the weapons fire and bathing the bridge in gold. He closed his free fist and the enemy’s boltguns shattered. The flamer exploded with a vast, booming roar.»

 

And episode VI:

 

 

«Yesugei smiled. ‘At least, then, we are honest with one another.’

‘You use warp-born powers,’ said Xa’ven, as if by way of explanation. ‘That, we have learned, is a sign of the enemy. They do not follow the Edict, and it cost us on Isstvan.’

Yesugei placed his hands together. Every piece of information he was given from that damned planet was painful to hear; such things were exactly what Ahriman and he had warned would happen if the Librarius was disbanded.

‘I follow commands of my primarch,’ Yesugei said. ‘If he orders me to stop using gifts, I do so, but the Khan is out of contact for a long time.’ He gave Xa’ven a half-apologetic look. ‘In any case, he will take no notice of Edict. None of us will. The gift is part of who we are, has been for long time. Imagine if I tell you to put away your flamers, or you, Son of Medusa, your metal hand. Would you do it?»

[Wade Garrett]

Regarding the Rune Priests at the Battle of Prospero, I noticed something while looking through "A Thousand Sons" and "Prospero Burns" to make sure I was remembering everything correctly.

 

Namely, when Magnus's Legion unleashes their sorcery on the battlefield, we are shown no examples of the Rune Priests acting to counter it or deploy their own magicks.

 

The only time such things are used in either novel are Wyrdmake hunting down Ahriman (away from the Custodians and Sisters of Silence) and Helwinter going up against Fake Horus (again, no Custodians are around).

 

Helwinter does have a group of Sisters on call as back up, but he doesn't use his powers when they take the field.

 

Going just by those two novels, while the Wolves brought their Priests to the battle they seem to have been very circumspect in employing them.

[Kol Saresk]

Apologies Kol, that was me saying they fought it was stupid, and they did think that, but when I said that I didn't realise the following happened before Scars had any knowledge of Betrayal:

 

Episode V:

 

Twelve ozone-bangs radiated blast shocks through the bridge atmosphere, crackling and solidifying into Space Marines in dark power armour. They swung out of their teleport zones and scattered across the deck with their weapons trained.

‘Stand down!’ roared a monstrous voice from a war-helm, deafening in its artificial amplification. ‘Surrender the ship!’

‘Do not be foolish,’ replied Yesugei calmly in Gothic. ‘Please, put weapons away.’

Twelve muzzles immediately locked on to him.

‘Storm-witch!’ shouted one of the boarders.

 

All twelve weapons opened up in that instant: a drum of bolt shells, followed up by the furnace-rush of a flamer’s discharge.

Yesugei raised his staff, and the projectiles exploded in front of him in a shower of spilled force. For a brief moment he was wreathed in a wall of noise and seething fury, then it ripped away.

‘This is foolish,’ he said, his voice as placid as if he were still alone on the Altak.

The twelve invaders charged toward Yesugei, leaping across balcony-rails and swerving around console stations, firing all the while.

He slammed his staff down and spears of lightning burst along its length, outshining the weapons fire and bathing the bridge in gold. He closed his free fist and the enemy’s boltguns shattered. The flamer exploded with a vast, booming roar.»

 

And episode VI:

 

 

«Yesugei smiled. ‘At least, then, we are honest with one another.’

‘You use warp-born powers,’ said Xa’ven, as if by way of explanation. ‘That, we have learned, is a sign of the enemy. They do not follow the Edict, and it cost us on Isstvan.’

Yesugei placed his hands together. Every piece of information he was given from that damned planet was painful to hear; such things were exactly what Ahriman and he had warned would happen if the Librarius was disbanded.

‘I follow commands of my primarch,’ Yesugei said. ‘If he orders me to stop using gifts, I do so, but the Khan is out of contact for a long time.’ He gave Xa’ven a half-apologetic look. ‘In any case, he will take no notice of Edict. None of us will. The gift is part of who we are, has been for long time. Imagine if I tell you to put away your flamers, or you, Son of Medusa, your metal hand. Would you do it?»

Ah okay. Yeah, that definitely puts them out of "Toeing the Line". Thank you for clarifying that.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

Regarding the Rune Priests at the Battle of Prospero, I noticed something while looking through "A Thousand Sons" and "Prospero Burns" to make sure I was remembering everything correctly.

Namely, when Magnus's Legion unleashes their sorcery on the battlefield, we are shown no examples of the Rune Priests acting to counter it or deploy their own magicks.

The only time such things are used in either novel are Wyrdmake hunting down Ahriman (away from the Custodians and Sisters of Silence) and Helwinter going up against Fake Horus (again, no Custodians are around).

Helwinter does have a group of Sisters on call as back up, but he doesn't use his powers when they take the field.

Going just by those two novels, while the Wolves brought their Priests to the battle they seem to have been very circumspect in employing them.

The allied Sisters of Silence would have hindered the Rune Priests as much as their adversaries. Given his stand against the TS, Wyrdmake was a well known psyker. So, given their approach to former librarians elsewhere, wouldn't it have been consistent for the Custodes to keep an eye on him?

 

Thanks for the quote (and for keeping it in context), KK. I always appreciate ADB's interventions, and the fact that he thinks it needs to be addressed means we might get a solution in the future :)

 

We need to get Laurie Goulding on task or the answer may appear in inferno as I mentioned above ;)

[Kol Saresk]

The same Laurie Goulding writing a novel on Mortarion's Heart-Carving? I think I feel safer with Chris Wraight writing it no offense.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

The same Laurie Goulding writing a novel on Mortarion's Heart-Carving? I think I feel safer with Chris Wraight writing it no offense.

Yes, but also the same guy responsible for minimizing continuity errors/conflicts in the fluff, i.e. I not advocating who does or doesn't write it, just that it gets covered :)

[Kol Saresk]

The same Laurie Goulding writing a novel on Mortarion's Heart-Carving? I think I feel safer with Chris Wraight writing it no offense.

Yes, but also the same guy responsible for minimizing continuity errors/conflicts in the fluff, i.e. I not advocating who does or doesn't write it, just that it gets covered

Fair enough. Although some of the changes that were being discussed on the First Expedition made my eye twitch since they missed some bits of fluff. But different topic, different story and already put to notice so another day, another dollar. Personally, I'm voting Chris Wraight because as I understand it, he's someone the more....... vocal...... Space Wolf fans don't mind writing their Legion.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

I hear you K_S ;)

 

Although they seemed to have successfully slipped a less than perfect wolf into the Logan advent short. Maybe the day of a VI Legion defeat may be finally looming ...