Better Chaos Anti-Tank?

[Kilofix]

Need some help with game theory math:

 

Points cost aside, and ignoring the challenge of getting into range; is the Maulerfiend a better anti-tank then a LasCannon Predator or the Land Raider?

 

Better - in terms of survivability and turns to kill the opposing tanks (assuming the Mauler is already successful in getting into close combat).

 

And, for that matter, is an all LasCannon Predator better than a Land Raider for the same?

 

Thanks for the opinions!

[Black Templar 307th Comp.]

Well, ignoring points as you request, and ignoring range...and not particularly knowing what all these fancy things on the Maulerfiend do (Namely the Lasher Tendrils)...without a lot of the variables (Did the tank move or not, what AV are we looking at here?)

 

I'm inclined to go with the Tri-Las Pred (I assume that's what you mean by "an all LasCannon Predator").  Higher BS, one shot is TL, and you have a better chance of keeping your rear armor covered and forcing them to shoot at your FA13 than having to walk up to a tank and expose the fiend's RA 10.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I think the Predator is overall better, too.  There are a few flat trade offs: AV13 vs. AV12 with a built-in save, for example.  The Predator gets my vote because the higher overall armor value and the long range of the lascannons.

[minigun762]

Maulerfiend is very powerful at busting armor, however the main drawback is the short range coupled with the risk of being immobilized.

 

Mauler also can't fight flyers.

[Kilofix]

Was just trying to figure out what might be better for destroying regular tanks but also super heavies in Apoc or when Escalation hits.

 

Predator with LasCannon clearly has the range advantage but it still needs a 5+ to hurt an AV14, and can only inflict 3 hits.

 

Maulerfiend needs to get into CC but can move 14"+ through cover with fleet, and only needs a 2+ to hurt an AV14, and can inflict up to 6 hits (A2 + 1 Charge + 1 Dual PF + 2 MagmaCutter if its PFs all hit) with reroll to wound if it uses DaemoForge. Also even though its only AV12, it has 5++ and can ignore Crew Shaken / Stunned with DaemoPossess.

 

I figure in Apoc or Escalation; I'll likely lose my unit anyway but I want to inflict as much damage as I can beforehand.

[minigun762]

Consider pairing some Maulerfiends with Spawn. Spawn are more than enough to handle anything with AV10 rear armor and they provide saturation for your fast moving Fiends.

[Giga]

A maulerfiend is never, ever going to assault anything worth assaulting. Not against a decent opponent, anyway. Just don't bother with them, close combat is generally pretty weak in 6th ed, and close combat walkers are weaker still. If you want a 12" moving close combat unit, get a bunch of nurgle spawns + a lord on bike or a juggerlord. 

 

Autocannon/lascannons predator is a workhorse. One or two of them are good in any list. Still, for my money, I'd stick with a bunch of obliterators. Not only are they reliable anti-tank, they are also flexible in that they can deep strike, assault, hide in terrain or even inside buildings, etc. 

[Kilofix]

Good opinions on using Spawns, Bikes and Oblits - thanks!

[hallodx]

OB is already a must take in my meta, just like dragon. Bisides you can always mod them from termies, and more flexible use.

As for predictors, my opinion is, take two or none. Just one can make it a fire magnet.

[Iron_Within]

A maulerfiend is never, ever going to assault anything worth assaulting. Not against a decent opponent, anyway. Just don't bother with them, close combat is generally pretty weak in 6th ed, and close combat walkers are weaker still. If you want a 12" moving close combat unit, get a bunch of nurgle spawns + a lord on bike or a juggerlord. 

 

Autocannon/lascannons predator is a workhorse. One or two of them are good in any list. Still, for my money, I'd stick with a bunch of obliterators. Not only are they reliable anti-tank, they are also flexible in that they can deep strike, assault, hide in terrain or even inside buildings, etc.

 

 

I don't agree at all, unless you mean a Maulerfiend on it's own, then it becomes a bullet magnet and nothing else. With Maulerfiends always take two, I prefer the melta cutters to the lashers, as they have more utility I think. In a complete power gaming scenario they will be unlikely to survive but the thing with Chaos Space Marines is we cannot do the full powergame against Tau or Eldar, they are broken beyond belief so unless you're doing tournaments you are fine. Anyways, enough of a tangent.

 

Maulerfiends will rip through any armour no matter how strong like it was tissue paper, I take two, I played someone who took two land raiders and two vindicators, one didn't make it (as the assault terminators jumped on it, however it tied them long enough for my spawn to charge and tarpit them for the rest of the game). 

Maulerfiends in short, need support, along with spawn or bikes (personally I prefer spawn) they present a rather terrifyingly fast wall, you use the Spawn to tarpit and take out the targets that will intercept the Maulerfiend (usually they will take out one) and it will get in, not necessarily the unit if you want, but along with spawn, princes and Rhinos, you are presenting more targets than most armies can handle, especially if there are ruins you can hug for the 4+ cover save.

 

Against someone who is spamming armour it becomes funny, as most the time they cannot stop you hitting something and you can still use the Spawn to hit the weaker targets. Avoid hitting dreadnoughts, they have higher initiative and will generally kill you before you hit (unless you can put invisibility on your fiend then it has a chance).

 

The Predator as said before is a workhorse, it will attract fire but in cover it has survivability. Auto/Las is generally considered wisdom, but I like the tri-las as well, it's not as cost efficient, but it's better against AV12 up.  Again I would say you need it supported, either by another pred or Obliterators. I would also say to make sure it's bubble wrapped if you opponent has things that can assault it (such as outflanking White Scar bikers, also good to keep them out of that half range for melta). It's not as good as killing armour stone dead as a Maulerfiend, simple as, but, it will get more shots off (it can kill something on turn one, the fiend cannot, unless they are really stupid and scout into your threat range).

 

Defensively, the threat range of the Maulerfiend comes into play, it can hide like Spawn, behind terrain ready to pounce on targets that get too close. An Invis Maulerfiend can go toe-to-toe with a Hive Tyrant and it strikes first against those pesky Command barges. Infact I would argue that defensively, the Maulerfiend can act as good cover for a Predator, because in order to charge the pred, you have to enter the threat range of the fiend first, which leave them open to the counter charge.

 

Overall I rate the Maulerfiend higher because it's more fun; there is a wonderful look on the opponents face when they realise it isn't stopping, that one is still going to hit and they can no longer stop it.

 

Lastly I would consider Be'lakor as an option alongside or at least a sorcerer. Invisibility as previously mentioned work very nicely on the Maulerfiend and add to their damage potential. Plus having a Daemon Prince puppet Mastering and terrifying the unwanted targets will just add to the damage potential