What if Fulgrim had killed himself on Isstvan V?

[Karthak]

After he killed Ferrus, Fulgrim came to his senses and realized how far he had fallen. He was about to impale himself on his own sword, but the Daemon that had misled him tricked him again. What if he had ignored its whispers and killed himself? True, the Emperor's Children were pretty far gone by then, but wouldn't it have had an impact on Traitor morale if one of their Primarchs had committed suicide? 

 

Perturabo stared at the bodies of his brothers. The sight of Ferrus, decapitated, was unnerving enough, but Fulgrim...

"Lord Perturabo..." One of the Emperor's Children, sitting on his knees, mourning over the body of his father, had noticed the Lord of Iron's approach.

"What happened here?!"

"I, I don't know why he di...did this, but his last words..."

Perturabo bent down to stare the Space Marine in the face. "His last words what?"

The Emperor's Child answered in a whisper. "His last words were: Ferrus, I am sorry..."

[Legatus]

I don't think that would have made a difference. Each of the traitor Primarchs had his own reasons for turning, and Fulgrim's allegiance or conviction was inconsequential to them. I don't even think a lot of the traitor Primarchs were all that keen on Fulgrim to begin with. Plus, did they know he was being subdued by a demon?

[Olis]

Well, it would have saved Perturabo a head ache, for a start. ;)

 

Like Legatus said, I doubt many of the 'rebels' would have been affected too much by the revelation that Fulgrim topped himself. It might give some of the less thoughtless ones a reason to be somewhat introspective but the likes of Angron, Curze, Mortarion and Perturabo probably wouldn't have given a crap (especially considering Perturabo was rightfully paranoid about the pretty boy).

 

The only ones who could have truly been affected would have been his own Legion who (I'd think), would be shocked at the event. The ignominy of your gene-father committing suicide as opposed to falling in battle isn't an attractive mindset - especially to a Legion now exploring excess.

[Karthak]

I don't think that would have made a difference. Each of the traitor Primarchs had his own reasons for turning, and Fulgrim's allegiance or conviction was inconsequential to them. I don't even think a lot of the traitor Primarchs were all that keen on Fulgrim to begin with. Plus, did they know he was being subdued by a demon?

Horus and Lorgar knew, but they didn't figure it out until after the dropsite massacre.

[Wade Garrett]

Considering that in the main post Corruption Fulgrim caused more problems to the Traitor side during the Heresy than any loyalist not named Sanguinus or Rogal Dorn...good riddance to bad rubbish.

[Gorkimedes]

Nothing stops Guilliman from reshaping everything into the perfect logistically sound utopia and peoples all over the known universe acknowledge him as their spiritual liege. 

[Olis]

Nothing stops Guilliman from reshaping everything into the perfect logistically sound utopia and peoples all over the known universe acknowledge him as their spiritual liege. 

 

Wait... what? Am I missing something? How is this relevant to Fulgrim getting fatally depressed?

[GrandMagnus]

After he killed Ferrus, Fulgrim came to his senses and realized how far he had fallen. He was about to impale himself on his own sword, but the Daemon that had misled him tricked him again. What if he had ignored its whispers and killed himself? True, the Emperor's Children were pretty far gone by then, but wouldn't it have had an impact on Traitor morale if one of their Primarchs had committed suicide? 

 

Perturabo stared at the bodies of his brothers. The sight of Ferrus, decapitated, was unnerving enough, but Fulgrim...

"Lord Perturabo..." One of the Emperor's Children, sitting on his knees, mourning over the body of his father, had noticed the Lord of Iron's approach.

"What happened here?!"

"I, I don't know why he di...did this, but his last words..."

Perturabo bent down to stare the Space Marine in the face. "His last words what?"

The Emperor's Child answered in a whisper. "His last words were: Ferrus, I am sorry..."

Dude... thats deep.

[AdamR]

 

Nothing stops Guilliman from reshaping everything into the perfect logistically sound utopia and peoples all over the known universe acknowledge him as their spiritual liege. 

 

Wait... what? Am I missing something? How is this relevant to Fulgrim getting fatally depressed?

 

Cos Fulgrim later killed Guilliman?

[Gorkimedes]

Nothing stops Guilliman from reshaping everything into the perfect logistically sound utopia and peoples all over the known universe acknowledge him as their spiritual liege.

Wait... what? Am I missing something? How is this relevant to Fulgrim getting fatally depressed?

If Fulgrim kills himself on Istvaan he can't poison Guilliman during their post heresy rumble.

[Olis]

Oh. I see. I hadn't thought that far ahead. 

[DuskRaider]

If Fulgrim offed himself at Isstvan V, Horus would either cull the Emperor's Children or take direct command of them which would result in a either a slowing of their degeneration, or a significant increase in it. Without Fulgrim, the Legion may actually be more involved in the Heresy, Perturabo would probably be more willing to work with his brothers, and the Siege of Terra may have gone a lot better since the Legion may have actually done something other than running amok on the population.

[Legatus]

Guilliman was killed about a hundred years after the Scouring. By that time he had already implemented the changes to the Imperial military structure and had left the Council to continue to lead his own Chapter.

[Karthak]

Good points all around. What do you think the effect would have been on the loyalists? For example, would the Iron Hands have gone more, or less, off the deep end if Ferrus's killer was dead?

[GhostMalone]

No chance to exact revenge, I'd be so beyond pissed off.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Depends what he said as he did it, I mean it could be possible his legion would go mad with grief, believing horus was responsible and go all not job against the rest of the traitors.

[Nomus Sardauk]

I imagine that the Emperor's Children would have reacted in one of two general ways, numero uno; they just don't give a because they either weren't that close to the dude or are too far down the path of excess to really be bothered by it, I mean who has time to be all mopey and upset when you're busy being so high you can see the curvature of the universe?

I imagine some characters likely to fall into this category might be Fabius and Eidolon, neither would really care that ol'papa had popped his clogs save except that Fabius would be annoyed by the sudden lack of steady geneseed to experiment on while Eidolon would merely see it as a chance to seize power.

Scenario number two, they freak the captial F out and take a hop, skip and an olympic-level nosedive into the deep end of excess to try and smother their shame and despair in the most hardcore and self-destructive binge since the Fall of the Eldar, either Horus or someone similiarly good at bossing others about would pimp-slap them back in line or they'd become more of a danger to their own allies than anyone else and would end up being destroyed.

People I think would fall into this category might be Marius and Julius Kaesoron.

[Dumah]

Too melodramatic for my tastes. I choose not to entertain the possibility.

[The Nephilim]

I don't even see this as a possibility. Fulgrim was too arrogant by far to even contemplate suicide.

[Karthak]

I don't even see this as a possibility. Fulgrim was too arrogant by far to even contemplate suicide.

Taken directly from Fulgrim, by Graham McNeill:

 

‘No, no, no,’ wept Fulgrim as the true horror of what he had done struck him with the force of a thunderbolt. He looked around through tear-filled eyes and saw the horrific changes wrought upon his beloved Legion, the perversions that masqueraded as epicurean pleasure. ‘Everything I have done is ashes,’ he whispered and swept up the golden Fireblade, so recently wielded by his brother in an attempt to undo the evil Fulgrim had embraced. Fulgrim reversed the blade and held its fiery tip against his body, the edge blackening his hands and burning the skin through the rents torn in his armour. To end things now would be the easiest thing in the world; to take away the guilt and wash the pain away in a sharp thrust of steel into his vitals. Fulgrim gripped the sword tightly, drawing blood from his palms where the blade’s edge sliced his skin. No, noble suicide is not for the likes of you, Fulgrim.

[The Nephilim]

I read Fulgrim. I've read every bit of fluff I can get my hands on regarding my beloved Emperor's Children. A temporary moment of depression does not make a man suicidal.
 
What I am about to say is deeply personal and highly relevant. That said, it isn't appropriate for young ones. Accordingly, I have spoiler-texted it.

I am a slightly arrogant and excessively prideful person, it is good to know one's faults. I own a a few handguns. I have also almost finished my degree in psychology. I suffer from bouts of deep depression. I am clinically manic depressive. I have even thought about suicide in the past. I would not however, choose to end my own life. Even in my darkest moments, I would never allow myself to end my glorious life. Even in when I have been in my lowest, in a drugged out fervor and completely wasted, I still found the resolve to live. Thankfully, days like that are long past.

That said, Fulgrim would be easily 100% more arrogant and prideful. I stand by what I said. He would not go through with his thoughts. A moment of fleeting self-doubt and weakness, daemonic possession aside, it just wouldn't happen.
 
You need to read The Reflection Crack'd from The Primarchs anthology. Fulgrim's dialogue at the end of the short story affirms my thought pattern.

[Arkangilos]

I read Fulgrim. I've read every bit of fluff I can get my hands on regarding my beloved Emperor's Children. A temporary moment of depression does not make a man suicidal.

 

What I am about to say is deeply personal and highly relevant. That said, it isn't appropriate for young ones. Accordingly, I have spoiler-texted it.

 

I am a slightly arrogant and excessively prideful person, it is good to know one's faults. I own a a few handguns. I have also almost finished my degree in psychology. I suffer from bouts of deep depression. I am clinically manic depressive. I have even thought about suicide in the past. I would not however, choose to end my own life. Even in my darkest moments, I would never allow myself to end my glorious life. Even in when I have been in my lowest, in a drugged out fervor and completely wasted, I still found the resolve to live. Thankfully, days like that are long past.

 

That said, Fulgrim would be easily 100% more arrogant and prideful. I stand by what I said. He would not go through with his thoughts. A moment of fleeting self-doubt and weakness, daemonic possession aside, it just wouldn't happen.

 

You need to read The Reflection Crack'd from The Primarchs anthology. Fulgrim's dialogue at the end of the short story affirms my thought pattern.

 

Whether he did it or not isn't what was brought up. You specifically said, "contemplate" which he DID do. He contemplated suicide, which is very clear. However, he decided not to go through with it. 

[The Nephilim]

You got me on semantics. Point conceded.

[BassWave]

You guys are massively down playing the deep bond ferrus and fulgrim had. Fulgrim killed his closest brother. The only reason that wretch didn't off himself out of grief is because that daemon tricked him into not killing himself.

[Karthak]

You guys are massively down playing the deep bond ferrus and fulgrim had. Fulgrim killed his closest brother. The only reason that wretch didn't off himself out of grief is because that daemon tricked him into not killing himself.

Yep. From Fulgrim: 

 

No, noble suicide is not for the likes of you, Fulgrim. ‘Then what?’ howled Fulgrim, hurling away the sword his brother had forged. Oblivion: the sweet emptiness of eternal peace. I can grant you what you crave… an end to guilt and pain. Fulgrim rose to his feet and stood tall beneath the storm wracked clouds of Isstvan V, his once beautiful face streaked with tears, and his pristine armour stained with the blood of his beloved brother. Fulgrim lifted his hands and looked at the blood there. ‘Oblivion,’ he said, his voice hoarse. ‘Yes, I crave the boon of nothingness.’ Then leave yourself open to me and I will put an end to it all. Fulgrim took a last look around. The grim-faced warriors who had foolishly thrown in their lot with the Warmaster: Marius, Julius and thousands more were damned, and they could not see it. All around him, he could hear the sounds of the future, of warfare and death. The thought that he shared the guilt of the destruction of the Emperor’s dream was the greatest shame and sorrow he had ever known. An end to it all would be a blessed relief.

 

‘Oblivion,’ he whispered as he closed his eyes. ‘Do it. End me.’ The barriers in Fulgrim’s mind dropped and he felt the elation of a creature older than time as it poured into the void in his soul. No sooner had its touch claimed his flesh for its own than he knew he had made the worst mistake of his life. Fulgrim screamed as he fought to keep it out, but it was already too late. His consciousness was crushed into the dark, unused corners of his mind, forever to be a mute witness to the havoc wrought by his body’s new master. One moment Fulgrim was a primarch, one of the Emperor’s Children, the next he was a thing of Chaos.