Dear Dark Angel Friends....

[Prot]

I have been playing Dark Angels, specifically Ravenwing fairly exclusively over the last while.

 

Originally, I struggled mightily with them, and then started to enjoy a wonderful winning streak that now leaves me a little bored with the army.

 

Having played 40K for so many years, I have stuck out long journeys with Chaos, Black Templars, Space Wolves, back to Chaos, and now Dark Angels.

 

I find myself fizzling. I contemplate moving on to Deathwing. Green wing has never really caught my attention... maybe it's the 'green' part of the greenwing... I dunno.

 

Also I am contemplating Black Legion. Yea, I know I'm going to hear it about that, but more importantly what I'm wondering is how you guys feel Dark Angels (in general) and Deathwing (in specific) compares to the more recent releases.

 

For instance, how do you feel playing these guys now that the new Codex Marines have been out for a while? Do you envy their new toys? Their Centurions? Their competent flyer? Their doctrines?

 

As a side note, and no this isn't THE deciding factor, I'd like to know how you're doing in tournies or even a competitive environment with Deathwing specifically?

 

Thanks.

[Brother dean]

1st. Do it! Bone is a natural complement to your black bikes. Just start adding in a squad here and there of Deathwing deepstriking in off of your teleport homers.

 

2nd. It is a very challenging army to play because you will always be outnumbered and setup, movement and goals become doubly important. Bikes can race to anywhere they need to be in a turn or two. Termies that are slogging will take all game. That said, I take DW when I am feeling dumb because I dont have to remember a bunch of different characteristics and weapon stats because most of them are 4, BS/WS/I/S/T, not like Eldar I6 and T3 or Guard I3 T3 Even a usual AC squad will pump out 12 shots in groups of 4, 2,2,2,2.

 

3rd. TACTICAL DREADNOUGHT ARMOR. You get to (99%) completely ignore Helldrakes and make your normal saves, see also vs most power weapons and ordinance.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I absolutely love playing with deathwing.Few models to carry and move, exciting as they don't forgive bad moves or bad luck. They're a bit of underdogs but it makes victories very very tasty. And nothing like the look on the opponent face realising he has to defeat all those 2+/5++ saves. Also cool is that you already have RW so you can mix both in the future.

I can't say much about it being competitive against the new releases, but I figure that they shouldn't do that bad once you got your army tuned.

[Dafoo]

I don't particularly envy the new Space Marine dex at least not as a DA player blood angels on the other hand maybe lol. Joking aside I love Death wing sure it Azzy loses to Lysander but hey that's what it is. Terminator troops are fun low model count and they do fine in casual play. Bring a Crusader or two if you want to be competitive with them. March10k has tips for that set up. Ummm Centurions are only threatening with Sentinels of Terra and allies with Tau in which case they are simply part of the problem. Otherwise plasma talons simply eat them alive. I have done well with my Deathwing, this being said my venue is not very competitive, no screamerstars and plenty of terrain to punch out Tau. Our local Marine is an Ultra kinda guy and when I face Grey Knights Coteaz is my only issue, which will soon apply to IG as well. Lots of fun banners and PFG Knights and.. yeah not too much to worry about. Grav guns on White Scars could suck but meh. This is why they made Codex Inquisition with servo skulls.

[Dafoo]

As a side note black legion is cool with the whole we don't need to waste 250 points for chosen spam. Other than that I don't see a point to taking them. Deathwing seems a lot more fun than a Chaos Mech list with Melta and Hell Turkeys. That and if you really want to go chaos there are rumors of Cypher returning within a month. Figured I would say that since this is DA and all.

[Master Avoghai]

Deathwing is a particular army to play... As is any elite army.

It can do right in competitive environment as long as you avoid tournies with less than 1850pts.

They'll do well but will rarely get the 3 first places.

 

However you'll learn a lot by playing them cos, with the low model count, every choice is critical, every success is rewarding.

 

Moreover they're kinda "cheap" to play. If you base your list and March10k's 1850pts list, for exemple you'll need 2 DV DW squad (10€ each)

2 DW command squad (45€ each), 2 crusaders (60€ each), some bitz to convert Belial and the Libby (not more than 20€). So for 250€, you get a good 1850 army... In the current times, it's bargain.

 

I personally do not envy vanilla's new toys.

Graviton and stalker will surely be added in next edition book (when you play DA you learn patience :P )

Centurions are only good because they have heavy gravitons... The rest of their weaponry is kinda standard. And I prefer my TDA look rather than this "baby dreadknight" look.

Flyers are better gameswise but we get the design advantage. I just fail to see why DA didn't get a flying transport. But we still can play storm eagle or caestus.

 

So have fun trying the first of the first!

[Gillyfish]

I will add to this with the comment that one of the reasons I have stuck with DA over the years is the versatility of playstyles open to you. fast army? Check. Slow, but hard-hitting army? Check. Stubborn version of normal marines? Check? Mix of two or three? There are some really nice options to explore, if you wish.

 

If you like a challenge you could try a black/white list (Ravenwing and Deathwing only) and see how that plays. From what I gather, when it works it can really work.

[Phoebus]

Graviton and stalker will surely be added in next edition book (when you play DA you learn patience :P )

 

Personally, I'd rather we didn't get them at all rather than hope we'd get them in the next Edition. Maybe it's because I'm committed to the iBooks version of the Codices and similar products, but I honestly don't get the need for a 4-5 year wait for that kind of a change. It either makes the Dark Angels unbalanced or it isn't. It's either something that fits the Dark Angels theme or it doesn't. There's either a good background-related reason to exclude them from the Armoury of the Unforgiven or there isn't.

 

I can't think of a consideration besides those three, above, and I can't think of a reason why it would take more than a few months of play-testing and internal discussions to come to a reasonable verdict.

[Master Avoghai]

I can't think of a consideration besides those three, above, and I can't think of a reason why it would take more than a few months of play-testing and internal discussions to come to a reasonable verdict.

Reason is simple : it officially assuming what everybody already knows ie: development teams have a reflexion "per codex" and do not communicate with each other.

That was for the same reason in previous edition that we got 4+ SS while Vanilla got 3+. Or that we got a LR with 10 places while the vanilla had a 12 places LR...

Those things didn't need one year to fix... Just a FAQ that was released at the end of v5, 4 years after the SM codex and prior to the release of DV box set...<_<

 

 

Same thing here, I can bet that graviton guns were a creation of the SM that arrived too late in the DA development and therefore weren't included. They "forgot" to tell the DA that the vanilla were on the way to get a new weapon that will be included in the generic tactical box set (note that if it should have remained vanilla only, it could have been included in the vanilla veterans box set only.

 

Problem is : if GW fix it now they recognize several things

 

1- that their conception team doesn't know how to communicate

2- that they don't have a general plan on "what the whole astartes should look like" and work just by instinct

3- that they have made an error by non releasing the SM codex prior to other astartes codex to use it as a base reference for each edition

4- the most important : that they may create an issue leading to everybody asking for "codex corrections" in the year following the release of their codex...

 

So they prefer pretend that everything is under control and will fix it in the next edition.

 

GW does work like Apple : they always tell you that the product is perfect and have no problem, then they sell you the next upgrade by telling you that they have "corrected the problems"

[march10k]

I do love how I can fit my entire 1850 points of DW into a single bag with three trays in it...two trays of infantry, and one oversized one with two crusaders.  My IG, by contrast, require trays for 75 infantry and 17 models to fill the same 1850.  I make three trips out to the car to bring it all in, and then figuring out which chimera goes into which slot in which tray, sorting my infantry back into the proper squads in the proper trays (the special weapons troops are heavily converted, so they have specific slots, and their squadmates belong in the same row of the same tray) is agonizing.  And deployment?  Two tanks and one bike, grouped together...done and done.  DW makes for fast setup and fast play.  And, hell, it's fun.  Sometimes a squad of ratling snipers will kill six terminators in two turns...and sometimes a squad of terminators will shrug off the small arms fire of the entire enemy force!  With so few models and so few game turns, there's no such thing as statistically average outcomes, it's feast or famine every time.

[SvenONE]

Hahah, transport is a hugely deciding factor in a lot of my lists.  On a weekend when driving to a shop I don't mind, packing everything up in the car.  But if I'm taking bus/public transportation I need to have a managable transport system.  I also hate rolling suitcase things!

[Prot]

Hey guys, thanks a lot for your responses.

 

I've come back to this thread a few times in the past couple of days and have re-read it. It all helps. I'm still undecided.... I really enjoy both armies but I have fare more invested in chaos. There is a sense of 'been there done that' with my Chaos stuff, but I'm still not convinced I should take the plunge in the Deathwing direction. I keep looking for good batreps online and it's a bit of a battle.

 

I still love the background of the army.

 

Also I do think after reading this thread I'm far less tempted by the new Marine codex toys.

 

Thanks again for putting your two cents in and reflecting on your experiences with the Deathwing/Greenwing/Ravenwing.