new to grey knights

[Pyro X]

I was looking for ideas on different army styles that work well in 6th ed. I'm going to be getting more models and I'm just wanting an idea whats working and whats not before I get stuff I don't need.

 

I currently have 10 normal grey knights still in box, 1 razorback in box, 1 GK termies in box, and 1 dreadknight painted with all bits magnetized.

I already have a large force of Dark Angels (around 14,000 points) so I already have a terminator army and don't need another. I'm kinda looking toward lots of grey knights in razorbacks with psy ammo and 2 or so dreadknights in a list. Is there anything close that is doing well in 6th? I would also like to avoid henchmen if I can ( I know they are good but not a big fan how they look). granted I know I will get them later down the road.

thanks for any input you may have.

[MayorDaley]

Hello Pyro X,

1st, Welcome!

I think you have a pretty good start, and let me direct you to this thread: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/283625-da-boyz-tournament-thread/

This is DarkOne's Batrep, which is extremly well written, and shows how a few of our units perform in a competitive setting.

I understand your hesitation to look at the "henchman lists", but the problem is they are competitive. If you run Coteaz and two cheap units of henchman, you have sooooo many pts left over for the fun/good units.

Let's figure out your army though, so couple of questions for you.

How many pts do you want to play?

No henchman, check No TDA, check What other units don't draw your interest? Also, what units do?

Can you magnitize your models?

Cheers

[Pyro X]

I was looking at putting magnets into everything. I just need to find out what size fits into the grey knight marine swords and other weapons. I'm looking at around 2000. like I said I'm going to be getting henchmen but probly not till tax return because they are bloody costly, not that I need to tell you guys that lol.

 

I really like the idea of upping the str of weapon with psy flame/ammo. from what I was reading I like the purifiers, purgation, really all of the marines they got. I love the idea that every freaking one of them can take down cheesy MCs with force weapons. I'd like to be able to go without named characters until I learn more about them as well. I think that just general all the HQ choices are solid. O and I like the Vindicare assassin but I know he is a glass cannon.

 

Edit, I kinda like the shunt idea of a list but not sure how well it works right now.

[dropped my axe]

A few options what catches your eye as far as warlords? grandmasters are great but don't overlook the brotherhood champ can be good in lower point games what you got will make a decent start try and max out your psycannons magnetise the strikes so they can be interceptors as your army grows this will come in handy dread knights are great but suffer where all mcs do with grav guns and posion weapons and the like and can be overwhelmed by things like mass orks always give him the incinerator and if possible the teleported so you can jump him around burning things

[Pyro X]

honestly I liked the inquisitors because how much different things they can bring to the field. termy armour with psy cannon, or any psyker, BS 10 shots for a squad, and nades that reduce toughness.

[Gentlemanloser]

No henchmen, and no TDA?  I'm glad you like Razorbacks, as that's probably the only route left.  Full on MSU Mech.  DreadKnights are great, but work better with TDA rather than MSU.

 

You might want to look at something like (if you can stomach the Tax, stick him behind an ADL/Quadgun maybe...)

 

HQ: Crowe (150)

Troop: Purifier x5, Psycannon x2, Razor, Psybolt Ammo (190)

Troop: Purifier x5, Psycannon x2, Razor, Psybolt Ammo (190)

Troop: Purifier x5, Psycannon x2, Razor, Psybolt Ammo (190)

Troop: Purifier x5, Psycannon x2, Razor, Psybolt Ammo (190)

Troop: Purifier x5, Psycannon x2, Razor, Psybolt Ammo (190)

Troop: Purifier x5, Psycannon x2, Razor, Psybolt Ammo (190)

Heavy: Purgation x5, Psycannon x2, Razor, Psybolt Ammo (190)

Heavy: Purgation x5, Psycannon x2, Razor, Psybolt Ammo (190)

Heavy: Purgation x5, Psycannon x2, Razor, Psybolt Ammo (190)

 

Total: 1,860

 

9 Identicle Squads of Pew Pew death.

[dropped my axe]

Would love to run a list that Gentlemanloser suggests like that one and the henchmen spam but everytime i see them i look at the $$$$ involved in building it and feel sad

 

Oh well

 

One of the things i like most about GK is that with  very little effort the Strikes can be turned into whatever you want interceptors, purifiers or purgation squads so you can run competitive or fluff.

 

Try the assassin he can infiltrate mess up the other guys plans or can go on a quad gun or one of the buildings hes good to have against fateweaver with his shield breaker. yeah he'll die but hey you might get a good position in cover and he can survior for a turn.

 

the shunt trick works well with ravens and you'll need a grandmaster, the shunting units start on the table survive a turn then the ravens come on and you shunt up to them so your whole army has moved together. there are other ways to do it like shunting intercepts late game for objectives but in the end you'll just have to play em

[Gentlemanloser]

If you don't want Crowe, than you can go with Brotherhood Champion / Strikes.

 

HQ: Brotherhood Champion (100)

Elite: Purifier x5, Psycannon, Razor, Psybolt Ammo (180)

Elite: Purifier x5, Psycannon, Razor, Psybolt Ammo (180)

Troop: Strike x5, Psycannon, Razor, Psybolt Ammo (160)

Troop: Strike x5, Psycannon, Razor, Psybolt Ammo (160)

Troop: Strike x5, Psycannon, Razor, Psybolt Ammo (160)

Troop: Strike x5, Psycannon, Razor, Psybolt Ammo (160)

Troop: Strike x5, Psycannon, Razor, Psybolt Ammo (160)

Troop: Strike x5, Psycannon, Razor, Psybolt Ammo (160)

Heavy: Purgation x5, Psycannon, Razor, Psybolt Ammo (170)

Heavy: Purgation x5, Psycannon, Razor, Psybolt Ammo (170)

 

Total: 1,760

 

You can keep the squads with similar loadouts (for target priority).  Or you have the points to add in extra Psycannons.  Upping the Puri's and Purg's to 2 each takes you to 1,820.

 

This has 10 Razors and 14 Psycannons, while the Crowe version has 9 Razors and 18 Psycannons.

[Quozzo]

I would increase the squad size of Purifiers and SS to 10 so you're only paying for one psybolt ammo per 10 while they can still share the rhino and still take same number of psycannons, even if you combat squad them.

[Gentlemanloser]

I didn't purchase Psybolt Ammo for the Grey Knights, only the Razors.

 

Going to 10 and combat Squads halves the amount of Razors you can bring.

 

S5 Storm Bolters, or a Psybolt Razorback?

[Quozzo]

Ah nevermind, I thought the pybolts were for the PAGK. I'm not a fan of rhinos myself, I prefer deep striking, shunting, storm raven-ing or land raiders for the assault ramps. But my avatar is a BA so I do favour close combat

[Grand Master Caloth]

As far as magnets, there is an awesome video on YouTube, i will find it again and add to this post

[TheDarkOne]

Welcome to Grey Knights and Welcome to the B&C!

 

First of all, you've picked a really great army and a very versatile one at that.

 

When starting the army, the first thing you're going to want to do is get your troops set up.

 

If you don't want to use henchmen off the bat (I highly recommend them btw), and you're averse to TDA squads (Also highly recommended), you're left with one option without special characters, Strikers.

 

I've heard in your posts that financing this army is a bit of an issue, so lets make sure you're getting the most bang for your buck.

 

The first thing you're going to want to do is build 20 power armored grey knights.

 

You can use magnets on their weapons, and backpacks for interceptors, but for your first few games you'll probably be working with strikers.

 

There are a few configurations for strikers that I recommend:

 

Config 1, the basic:

 

10 Strikers, Psybolts, 2xPsycannon, Rhino - 280 points

 

This is your basic strike squad, great shooting with psybolts, and psycannons are awesome too, and everybody's got a force sword. you can splurge the points for some close combat weapons, but don't go crazy, they are a shooty unit that happens to have force weapons, not a cc unit that happens to shoot. That said, I sometimes run a halberd on the justicar to kill Sargents in challenges, and put 1 hammer in the squad to deal with things like mephiston (it really deters him from charging the unit that he can't kill them all, and there's a hammer to strike back and FW him). that's 15 points of cc weapons, which is actually kinda reasonable, considering most aother armies pay 10-15 points for a power weapon.

 

Config 2, I like Razorbacks:

 

10 Strikers, Psybolts, 2x Psycannon, Razorback w Psybolts - 290 points

 

Same story as above, except in this situation you combat squad the strikers, putting 2 psycanons on the board elsewhere to apply fire to the enemy, and your cc upgrades (or no cc upgrades, force weapons are still good) in the razorback. because they're still a squad toting strength 5 stormbolters, you don't want to leave them in the transport for too long, get into range and hop out to apply pressure. again, you can buy cc upgrades if you want, but not being able to charge out of the vehicle makes it much less appealing. use these guys as scoring shooters, 2 squads that if in range put the hurt on 2 units. also remember that when combat squadded, you can deepstrike one combat squad and keep the other on the board.

 

Config 3, I REALLY like Razorbacks

 

5 Strikers, Psycannon, Razorback w Psybolts - 160 points

 

Coming in 130 points cheaper than the combat squadding unit, this is a great unit to spam, if you aren't playing with henchmen, which allow you to spam vehicles much cheaper. this is an effective unit, but loses out on the lack of psybolts (not worth it for only 4 stormbolters). situationally useful when building lower points lists, but I'd almost always recommend option 1 or 2 instead.

 

And that pretty much sums up the PAGK troops out of the box. I wouldn't recommend 6 man squads in razors (1 body doesn't' make that much difference), and I wouldn't recommend a 9 man squad to fit a character in the rhino (lack of a second psycannon is losing a lot). it is possible to not buy them a transport, and deepstrike the strikers, or put them in a raven or landraider, but I don't have much experience with this in a competitive setting, so i can't speak to it one way or another. i'd be loath to use strikers in an assault transport when we have better assault units in the codex (better assault troops with DCAs as troops with coteaz even).

 

So, with your 20 strikers, pick up 2 razorback boxes too, you can build them as rhino-backs, with interchangeable guns and top hatches. magnetize your backpacks at the very least, as when you investigate henchmen (guard models do really well for building these guys), you may want to use interceptors instead.

 

The main thing I think of when I am using PAGK, is how quickly and reliably can they apply their shooting? If i'm stuck not shooting for even one turn because I'm out of range, I feel like I'm losing something. that's why I love Interceptors, they're 60 points more expensive, which is a lot, but they can apply their shooting from turn 1 every single game.

 

That will give you your first two troop choices, and allow you to expand easily from there.

 

As for an HQ with strikers as troops, you have a lot of choices. Given the builds I explain above, I don't actually think the HQ will have much effect on your troops (won't fit in transports, doesn't want to stay back and shoot). It depends on what you want to do with the rest of your army.

 

Taking 3 dreadknights with teleporters? A grandmaster would love to make them scoring!

 

Taking a stormraven? A librarian gives your +1 to your cover save with the shrouding! A Xenos inquisitor with grenades adds a lot of punch to a squad charging out of the raven!

 

Inquisitors are great for their points (they are sooo cheap!), Grandmasters have a big bonus, but are expensive. Librarians are still excellent psykers, but are overshadowed by inquisitors for the price. Brotherhood Champion is a great cheap cc character, that can take whatever kills him, with him when he dies!

 

All the special characters are fun, but none are so spectacular as Coteaz. Coteaz brings a few things of note, first he allows you to reroll stealing the initiative, and can force your opponent to reroll theirs, a big bonus to ensure that your'e going first. next he allows you to shoot him and his unit at anything that enters play within 12" of him. NEXT he's a ML 2 Divination psyker, which is an excellent buffing psyker. AND LAST, he unlocks 12 point troop choices. that's right 12 points for 3 warrior acolyte henchmen with laspistols and chainswords. they're total garbage on their own, however they can buy a razorback for 50 points, and hide inside. also makes those nice DCA squads scoring. and allows you to take a 12 man henchmen squad with 3 servitors with plasma cannons and ablative warrior acolytes that can stand with coteaz and serve as a great deepstrike deterrent.

 

Crowe, I've never used. I only have 10 purifiers, and when I do use them they're in a raven or landriader. He's hard to manage, as he's not an IC and can't join squads. he's badass when he makes it to combat but has a hard time getting there running across the board on his own. fearless PAGK units as troops are great, but for 4 points more per model, I haven't used them as troops before. in 5th they were more popular, but now they seem to have fallen out of favor.

 

Draigo, the biggest hardest mutha in our book, this grandmaster unlocks paladins as troops. you're probably not interested in these guys as you expressed an aversion to TDA, but they're really quite good. they used to be unstoppable in 5th, but now Riptides really have their number. I don't recommend building a paladin heavy force unless that is 100% what you want to do.

 

Mordrak, a cool gimmick depstriking without scatter turn 1. I've toyed with this idea a few times, but he's very expensive (400 points with ghost knights), and doesn't provide scoring units inherently (grand strategy is kinda useful), and due to the lack of psycannons on his ghosts, isn't particularly shooty. considering they can't charge on the deepstrike this hurts quite a bit. you can attach a librarian with teleport homer to bring in your other units around the ghosts. whenever I've played against mordrak, I've killed him the turn he arrives.

 

Valeria, Karamozov, fun units in their own right, but I've never used them.

 

Stern, good luck...

 

That's my input for a starting player with your preferences!

[Pyro X]

dang, I like that list Gentlemanloser. Because crowe isn't an IC, I could maybe put 1 squad behind an ADL and hide him near them or something. I like the idea of an assassin manning the ADL weapon also, just in case a flier comes in.

[Gentlemanloser]

Don't forget Inquisitors with Skulls and other goodies (like 'nades, psyocculum).

 

You can even take an extra two (from Codex: Inquisition).

[Pyro X]

but with that list, I can't put them in transports because they're still "allies"

[Gentlemanloser]

You don't put any of the Grey Knights in the Razors. ;)

 

They are always disembarked, to shoot.  The Razors are there to block LoS/Charges and shoot their TL guns.

[Pyro X]

oooo got it.

[Valerian]

Even if you don't want to go TDA heavy, I'd still consider taking at least one unit of stock Grey Knights Terminators; they'll give you some significant capability that an all Power Armor force won't.

 

V

[Pyro X]

A question about the purgation squads. It says in the book they they don't need LOS to be able to shoot something or negs from night fight, and that they get "an unmodified 4+ cover" what if I'm shooting at say marine snipers that are in ruins 2+ or 3+ cover, would it still be a 4+? because putting a techmarine in with them for a conversion beam sounds kinda sick.

[Grand Master Caloth]

They would keep the better save. It reads that for models caught in the open or in worse cover.

[Pyro X]

aw too bad. lol

[Pyro X]

soo I know its not really warhammer stuff but speaking of magnets....

 

http://gma.yahoo.com/teen-rushed-surgery-swallowing-rare-earth-magnets-39-111329086--abc-news-health.html

this chick is about retarded.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Mechanised Knights are terrible and should not be attempted in 6th edition. It's one of the most expensive mechanised lists around, and with the general nerfs to mech lists (HP, increased dakka, Serpent Spam > all, etc), it's a road to disappointment. 

 

If you're getting into Knights, you need to accept two things;

 

1) We're not (and truthfully never were) a 'top tier' army. We're a second-string at best, in that we beat terrible lists and weaker races handily, and we have the tools and abilities to give the top-tier races a decent fight. But if you play badly, don't expect the list to win it for you. Against the cancer lists, you need to be playing your A-game, and even then you'll still lose a fair bit (they're strong for a reason). 

2) You're going to be always outnumbered. Our key power units are expensive and generally small squads, no more than 10 (as is usual for Marines). Our units are relevant in both melee and ranged fights, plus we have anti-psyker, anti-daemon and our own psychic powers, all of which we pay for. However, we still die like normal Marines. Given 6th edition might as well be called 'Revenge of the Xenos', get used to Marine hate when you play. Heldrakes, Riptides, Serpent Spam, Annihilation Barges, Grav-Centurions, Daemon Princes, ScreamerStar...

 

HQ:

 

Coteaz is your default choice. Note that you can take him from the Inquisition supplement if you want an extra HQ slot. However, if making a Henchmen list, it's better to take the GK Codex version, as he unlocks Henchmen Troops, whereas the Inquisition version just makes Henchmen from the Inquisition detachment scoring (crucial difference). In either case, he's the most broken hero in the game. 

 

Your other main option is a cheap Prescience Inquisitor or a TDA Inquisitor. In either case, you're taking them for the re-rolls from 'Divination' and their Stubborn Ld10 hand out. Knights don't usually have Leadership problems but its nice to know you largely don't care about Morale, in between this and ATSKNF. 

 

Grandmasters are a good choice at 2k or so, as you should have enough non-scoring to make their 'Grand Strategy' worthwhile. You generally don't need to load him down with kit, a hammer is all he needs to square up to enemy melee HQ's and monsters like Daemon Princes or Hive Tyrants. Probably a good idea  to make him 'Warlord', as he's harder to kill than Coteaz or an Inquisitor. 

 

Elites:

 

Purifiers need a Raven to function, they're too expensive and vulnerable on foot or in ground tranports. Incinerators are a great choice, as it makes them brutal when Combat Squadded out of a Raven (four incinerators+storm bolters from the rest of the squad, then charge and double-cast 'Cleansing Flame'). They'll handily murder most things that don't have 2+ armour, due to their force weapons, attack output, 'Cleansing Flame' and free incinerators. 

 

Vindicare is worth mentioning, as he's the only worthwhile Assassin. Provided he's not focused down by enemy fire, he can snipe vehicles and blow invul saves off characters, snipe squad leaders etc. A glass cannon to be sure, but a very useful one. 

 

Troops:

 

Your choices here boil down to Terminators or Strikes;

 

Terminators as Troops are fantastic and even 5-man combat squads can achieve a lot before dying. They're tough enough to Deepstrike into position, and they'll murder most enemy Troops and even enemy melee elites. AP2, Rending etc do hurt them, as do Riptides, but they're still a fantastic unit in 6th.

 

Strikes offer more firepower and bodies (and you're always short on manpower so it's worth thinking about), however they're as fragile as a Tactical Marine so consider Deepstriking them into key positions, or using Ravens to deliver them. 

 

Fast Attack:

 

Ravens are a solid investment. They're a great transport for our slow army, and they function as a gunship as well, and pack an Assault Ramp. They're not invulnerable but for the couple of turns they'll exist, you should aim to get maximum use out of them. 

 

Heavy:

 

Dreadknights are a solid choice, and a very mobile one with a personal teleporter (never leave home without it). When fielding both DK's and Terminators, you present your opponent with difficult choices; gun down the annoying MC running around ripping apart their army, or deal with your scoring and equally dangerous (if slower) Terminators? DK's are absolute hell incarnate to enemy infantry, mine routinely eats 2-3 squads before dying in most games. 

[Pyro X]

thanks for the insight Reclusiarch Darius. what would do you think would be a solid list with around 2k points? I don't mind dropping the cash for whatever models as long as its the right ones that I'm not going to always be leaving at home. I know what you mean about not being at the top tier in the game, having been playing DA for 5 or so years. If I need to field 10-20 termies I will I just don't want a full blown termy list because I already have deathwing (around 70 termies) and want something different.