Adeptus Astartes Stormwing Formation

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

420 as base

 

if you have the C:SM then thats all you need its all the same

 

only units from C:SM can ride in the raven they cant use tactics the raven is the only one you role reserve for the talons just escort they are treated as allies but dont take up allied FOC

Not all the same, both talons escort the raven (a deviation from the regular rule of only 1 talons cam escort) and the raven gets strafing as long as one of the talons is alive.

[Rift Blade]

Sorry. For 420 pts base & not able to put troops in the Raven & in a tournament where allies aren't allowed there fore most likely this formation is not allowed, why bother? I'll stick with the Storm Eagle. At least more & more tournaments around my area are allowing Forge World. And I can put troops in it for less then 420 pts. Oh well. It's a step in the right direction.

[Castellan Michael]

Well, we could have just allied with SM before and get those fliers. Also, although that's just my opinion, I am not the biggest fan of the Storm Raven. Hell yeah, I am gonna get one when I decide to try out SM codex, but not my premier choice. Nonetheless, I am happy that SW can get fliers without allied tax. I just don't find it very fluffy^^

 

Less we forget the storm eagle? i have one but hate the game points cost (and the fw cost too), obviously only run it in large point games.

[Wulfebane]

Sorry. For 420 pts base & not able to put troops in the Raven & in a tournament where allies aren't allowed there fore most likely this formation is not allowed, why bother? I'll stick with the Storm Eagle. At least more & more tournaments around my area are allowing Forge World. And I can put troops in it for less then 420 pts. Oh well. It's a step in the right direction.

 

WTH kind of tourneys don't allow Allies? Its hardwired into the rules and promoted heavily by GW. To not allow them is sorta like not allowing special characters, which may happen like once a year, but certainly isn't the norm.

[Rift Blade]

I hear you Wolfebane but the last 2 tournaments here have been no allies allowed. My choice to play or not & there is a 2500 pt tournament in the New Year(Jan 14), again, no Allies but allowing ForgeWorld. Not overly concerned as I'm not really a fan of Allies myself. Thinking of 5 Drop pods of GH's with 2 RP's & Arjack & 3 packs of Thunder Wolves plus WGBL on TW but I digress. AS Castellan Micheal pointed out large games. The formation gives us flyers but at 420 pts, what size game are you really going to play it in?

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I think you're in the 2000+ pt range with that high of a point cost. I don't know much about competitive warhammer, nor do I know much about the armies that can take obscene amounts of flyers, but in 1750 pt games and less do you generally come across guys that are stacked with flyers? I'm operating under the assumption that in smaller point games Long Fangs and a prescience RP may be enough to deal with flyers. 

[Rift Blade]

In smaller pts games I agree with you prey_falls_to _grey. 

[Grey Mage]

 

 

Well, we could have just allied with SM before and get those fliers. Also, although that's just my opinion, I am not the biggest fan of the Storm Raven. Hell yeah, I am gonna get one when I decide to try out SM codex, but not my premier choice. Nonetheless, I am happy that SW can get fliers without allied tax. I just don't find it very fluffy^^

How is it not fluffy?

They are marines, they should have access to all the equipment a codex army has. Land raider crusaders, Achilles, Helios, predator annihilators, land speeder tempests. All were developed by different chapters and yet all are used by every marine army to a greater or lesser extent.

It stands to reason that in the fang, amongst the Leann Russ tanks, we also have storm talons/ravens lurking away. We can't always get planet side with only thunder hawks and pods.

 

Yes, of cause all Chapter can use everything. However, every Chapter has his ethos. There's a reason why SW are not involved in Death from the Skies and the rumours say that the new SW will have no fliers. SW dislike teleportation and flying and prefer fighting/going to war on their own to feet. This is how Russ wanted to fight them. This is why I am a bit iffy about fliers for SW, but hey, Maybe they changed their mind^^

If by not involved you mean we had our own table to roll on for ace pilot skills.... yes, I agree completely.

 

*shrugs* Im more concerned about the monetary expense of THREE flyers, and the sheet, and wether or not the locals will even allow these formations in their games/tournaments. Like the 1999+1 issue.

[Frater Cornelius]

 

 

 

Well, we could have just allied with SM before and get those fliers. Also, although that's just my opinion, I am not the biggest fan of the Storm Raven. Hell yeah, I am gonna get one when I decide to try out SM codex, but not my premier choice. Nonetheless, I am happy that SW can get fliers without allied tax. I just don't find it very fluffy^^

How is it not fluffy?

They are marines, they should have access to all the equipment a codex army has. Land raider crusaders, Achilles, Helios, predator annihilators, land speeder tempests. All were developed by different chapters and yet all are used by every marine army to a greater or lesser extent.

It stands to reason that in the fang, amongst the Leann Russ tanks, we also have storm talons/ravens lurking away. We can't always get planet side with only thunder hawks and pods.

 

Yes, of cause all Chapter can use everything. However, every Chapter has his ethos. There's a reason why SW are not involved in Death from the Skies and the rumours say that the new SW will have no fliers. SW dislike teleportation and flying and prefer fighting/going to war on their own to feet. This is how Russ wanted to fight them. This is why I am a bit iffy about fliers for SW, but hey, Maybe they changed their mind^^

If by not involved you mean we had our own table to roll on for ace pilot skills.... yes, I agree completely.

 

*shrugs* Im more concerned about the monetary expense of THREE flyers, and the sheet, and wether or not the locals will even allow these formations in their games/tournaments. Like the 1999+1 issue.

 

Not getting own fliers (outside of FW) is what I meant actually ;)

 

The monetary expense is somewhat reduced since you save a bit by buying the bundle or converting some other non-gw models and getting the ebook by other means (not going to specify).

 

What bothers me is the borderline uselessnes of the monetary expense. Outside of the formation and allies, SW can not use those flyers by any means. SW is still your main army, as such, you will have the fliers standing around more often than not, since you can only get them as a whole package, which is a lot of points and most of the time not used in smaller point games. Also, tournaments could forbid allies and there maybe other reasons you can not take them (such as preferred battle brothers).

 

In the end, you spend quite a bit of money for some fliers to gather dust on the shelf half the time. Not worth it IMO, not at this price level.

[Grimtooth]

Frankly I will be flyerless until the new codex comes out. Until then it will be death by Long Fang or massed Asscan Razorbacks, "as Russ intended".

 

/sarcasm

[Plan-B]

Do you need to take all three in the formation or can you take one by itself? Like for instance one storm raven or talon?

[dropped my axe]

It's a formation so altogether!

 

I have it and it works well but tournaments so far aren't allowing it so I have decided to cut my wolves army in half and make an emperors wolves codex compliant list with the fliers and bikes and paint them so that I can still use the models as sw when I want and c:sm when I want a change

[Kasper_Hawser]

Inability to use Stormraven's as transports on Turn 1aside, what is all this hate for the stormraven? AV12 all around with Ceramite Protection preventing 2D6 penetration? Three different weapons which can fire two targets thanks to POTMS (correct me if I'm wrong). Point cost is high I admit but i don't see it as something that can be knocked out of the sky in Turn 1. Unless you are dumb enough to drop it right in the middle of two riptides with fushion gun interceptors. If anything, it can even function as a fire magnet. The Stormtalons to me are merely icing on the cake which is Stormraven. Most people would look at the Stormraven as the primary threat and almost forget the Stormtalons.

 

As for the aesthethic design, well, look at the poor flying cathedral Dark Talon? Personally I think its still sexy and fits the brutal nature of the Space Marines. And even the fugly and very situational Dark Talon has its uses. The Stormraven on the other hand is extremely flexible with the variety of weapons it carries, from anti tank to anti infantry to anti Monstrous creatures. Same goes for Stormtalon. Besides, I think one of our brother wolves did a fantastic Wolves Stormtalon conversion which he is now able to use.

 

Remember guys, tactics tactics tactics. Or if you want to be wolfy, cunning cunning cunning. Wolves attack in cohesive packs. They rarely take down prey alone unless if is much more smaller than they are. Against big game like bison, elk or buffalos, wolves are never stupid enough to attack one on one. Being cunning and clever with tactics, THAT is as Russ intended.

[Grey Mage]

I actually like the Dark Talon aesthetically *waits for boooos to end* more than the stormraven.

But I dont have a problem with the stormravens rules- I just dont think this formation it comes in is worth the trouble.

[Max_Dammit]

The dark talon looks OK if you leave the junk off

 

The tail would make a nice hammer of Thor with some knot work.

[pedrogzc]

 

 

Well, we could have just allied with SM before and get those fliers. Also, although that's just my opinion, I am not the biggest fan of the Storm Raven. Hell yeah, I am gonna get one when I decide to try out SM codex, but not my premier choice. Nonetheless, I am happy that SW can get fliers without allied tax. I just don't find it very fluffy^^

How is it not fluffy?

They are marines, they should have access to all the equipment a codex army has. Land raider crusaders, Achilles, Helios, predator annihilators, land speeder tempests. All were developed by different chapters and yet all are used by every marine army to a greater or lesser extent.

It stands to reason that in the fang, amongst the Leann Russ tanks, we also have storm talons/ravens lurking away. We can't always get planet side with only thunder hawks and pods.

 

Yes, of cause all Chapter can use everything. However, every Chapter has his ethos. There's a reason why SW are not involved in Death from the Skies and the rumours say that the new SW will have no fliers. SW dislike teleportation and flying and prefer fighting/going to war on their own to feet. This is how Russ wanted to fight them. This is why I am a bit iffy about fliers for SW, but hey, Maybe they changed their mind^^

 

I still haven't understood how the hell Russ put in the heavy skulls of brave sailors (remember Fenris has huge oceans and changing lands) the idea of only fighting only on foot... It's stupid!!! They only mistrust teleporting because they are very supersticious and don't trust this kind of technology... Arggg!!!

[Kasper_Hawser]

Sigh, as another poster has said, many many many people have misconstrued that particular text of the Space Wolves codex which was said in the context of TELEPORTATION! Not flying! Even the Wolfpriests are willing to put on Jump Packs, if only to keep the idiot Skyclaws from crashing themselves into a Carnifex maw.

 

LOL, I didn't mean to talk bad about the Dark Talon. I just wanted a comparison to another flyer that looks decidedly odd but still functional. Still, i don't get the hate for the formation. Its still Space Marine technology so Space Wolves shouldn't look entirely out of place with it, and even with base cost of 420, that's three units that not only put the hurt on flyers but wreak havoc on gunlines as well if you use them properly. May not kill triple riptides but that's where you utilise your brain and use tactics AS RUSS INTENDED!

[Frater Cornelius]

Okay, to put an end to this debate, I called up Russ the other day and asked him about this issue. All I got is a lot of yelling and rage for this silly question but I understood something along the lines of 'why am I wasting time here calling him when I should be out there killing stuff'. He also proceeded to note that the Dark Talon is garbage for its points.

Right, so now we can return to the debate of whether the formation is worth our time. I still think, given the option that a FW flier is better, simply because the SR is the only real addition. Talons are fine bit can be killed rather fast and aren't even scoring as your allied tax troops would be. Don't get me wrong. The SR has enough dakka to blow up half an army, but I feel that you are better of with the allied tax as opposes to the talons, given that you really want a flier and not sone solid ground to ait with allies or Long Fangs.

[Hear da Lamentation]

For Russ' Sake !  Just give our damn Long Fangs Skyfire missiles and be done with this pathetic notion of fliers.  We are Wolves goddamit !  We don't need these pesky fliers, we just need something we can HIT them with :)

 

H.D.L.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Oh... You're right, what we need is Long Fangs that shoot rocket propelled Fenrisian wolves at flyers so they can chew through them with their wolf teeth. Because we space wolves are so Wolfy...

 

Flyers are part of the game, and a big part of how 6th edition is supposed to be played. It's ridiculous we have no access to them and I cannot stand all the lack of sensability. Russ would snarl in digust at all of you tactically unsound old wolves, too far sighted and stuck in old ways to utilize all weapons to gain the advantage over the enemy.

[Rift Blade]

As several have pointed out(anyone can confirm this by reading Emperor's Gift), we Wolves do have Flyers(& actually do use teleporters-just not very often-we don't like them but we do use them-heck, we even teleport a Dreadnaught). It's just kinda of convenient that the actual type is never mentioned. In Emperors Gift, Logan Grimnar & his Wolf Guard arrives on the Grey Knights ship via gunship. Never does say what type. Pity.

 

So, why give us access to a formation that only does half it's job? IMO, I think it's might be a precursor of things to come. Dare I venture a guess that with our new codex rumoured for Q3 of 2014 that we will finally have access to both the Storm Raven & the Storm Talon?!?

[Bloody Legionnaire]

 I really find it funny so many are in the mind frame that flyers and space wolves don't make since. Any force that emphasizes foot soldiers uses aircraft for support. Almost, since the beginning of the invention of aircraft and there implementation in combat, CAS (Close Air Support) and the infantry have had a intimate relationship, the aircraft being crucial to the survival of those on the ground. We are a troop oriented Army yes? Some would say we have the best troops in the game, yes? It absolutely makes sense for us to have a flyer for CAS. Don't even get me started on the transport facet, we should all be aware from this thread how important that is.

If SWs aren't manly enough to get the poor wittle furry wolfy feet off the ground to fight, give us a damned drone, for crying out loud. It's not like the hell turkey is piloted either.....

[Karack Blackstone]

Flyers are just a natural progression of Viking Long Ships; if one needs to travel the stars, the only way to get to a ship being a Flyer, why not use the thing as well to get to the field?

 

I'd say the, "Fight with your feet on the ground, as Russ intended!" has been overplayed and might even be an Inquisitorial insert statement.  It was or was not there, in the eariler Codex books?

 

As well, I don't see a problem with using something that's able to get Astartes into the fight where they are needed as swiftly as possible.  Bad weather not withstanding, there's always a good reason for Flyers and Skyclaws.  Tactics change, and so should we.  I do agree though, we really need at least Flakk Missiles overall.

 

Besides, I plan on using the Storm Chicken (it is a rather inconvenient aesthetic design) myself as part of one or two Storm Wings along with some Provocation Storm Claws.

[Fenric]

Not sure what it is in anotehr countries but a Fire Raptor is actually cheaper for me in Sweden than buying the formation. Will check the new rules from the new fw book and check with my friends but most of them play fw so should be fine. If my necron player friend can get a whole fort that gives his entire army 3+ inv save, a str 9 ap 2 heavy 2 with skyfire gun and a docking station that makes his Monolith better for 350p I can use a Fire Raptor :P

[Max_Dammit]

P&P makes the price higher here in the netherlands, but even if it was half, id still get the fire raptor