Adeptus Astartes Stormwing Formation

[Leif-thunderstand]

110€ nornal price for the formation 65€ for a single stormraven 35€ for a stormtalon. These are kraut`s prices. Fire raptor... Well seems to be not available in germany. (may it's to brutal)

[Karack Blackstone]

For the sake of others, all SW players, what's the math hammer say about the points costs and problems of doing a TLLC Stormwing force, and comparing it to a shooty happy Fire Raptor?

 

Stormwing:

 

- One Astartes Stormraven

- Two Astartes Stormtalon Gunships

 

Fire Raptor:

 

- One Fire Raptor modified Storm Eagle Gunship

 

Weapons and dice:

 

(I'm not all the way up on this, so more than willing to correct if something proves to be wrong in here)

 

Stormraven:

 

1 TLMM

1 TLLC

4 Hellstrike Missiles

 

Stormtalons:

 

1 TLLC (each)

1 TLAC (each)

 

Total:

 

1 TLMM, Str 8 AP1 1 shot, twin linked

3 TLLC, Str 9 AP2 1 shot, twin linked

2 TLAC, Str 6 AP4 4 shots, twin linked, rends on 6's

4 Hellstrike Missiles, Str 7 or 8, AP(?) one shot, one use per missile

 

Fire Raptor:

 

1 Avenger Bolt Cannon, Str 6 AP3, 7 shots

2 Turret mounted TLAC, Str 7 AP4, 2 shots, twin linked

4 Hellstrike Missiles

 

Point for point, it seems to me that the roles are different, as in, for anti air the Fire Raptor appears to be more a ground pounder punisher platform, whereas the Stormwing goes after anything flying.  Str 6 AP3 with 7 shots might glance out another flyer, however, the Stormwing's three TLLC might tip the hat towards anti-flyer duty seeing as all can attack other flyers, allowing mutliple targets, the same as the Fire Raptor. 

 

The larger issue is of course the points to get the flyers up to combat performance level cheaply. 

 

I don't see this as easily viable, considering what is it, 420 base points, plus another 60 for TLLC on both Stormtalons, and the Stormraven being 25 or so is 485, 505 with EA on all three?

 

Fire Raptor is 240, that's two Fire Raptors for the price of an anti air Stormwing.

 

Hm, that's not very comforting overall.

 

Can the Fire Raptor anti-air well?

[Frater Cornelius]

Be it as is may, the Raptor is a bit more survivable that a Stormtalon I would guess. A dead flier won't be able to shoot anyone.

[Karack Blackstone]

That was the next area to be discussed.

 

Three flyers, three targets; albeit two are not very hard to remove.

 

Two @ AV11 all around, 2 HP

One @ AV12 all around, 3 HP

 

OR

 

One @ AV12 all around, 4 HP (8 total, for the same points costs.)

 

That, and shooting.

 

BS4 for all, minus the SR with Strafing Run, which is BS5.

 

With the varying ranges of to wound, the differing roles appear to be a major issue.  The Fire Raptor just does not seem likely to want to go down, and the three flyers will get focused down, what with two Stormtalons having 4 HP between them, with AV11 all around leaving them wanting as far as surviving a hit goes overall.  The SR might be alone rather quickly.

 

All that said, both above and here, we're sadly lacking for a real anti flyer flyer.

[Grey Mage]

Well... thats actually fluffy. Were not supposed to have an interceptor, thats the imperial navies job.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

The lascannon stormwing seems like an excellent solution to escalation though. I think most if not all the D weapons are templates and therefore unable to shoot fliers, and the manueverability of the formation can put the lascannon in the rear armor more likely than not. Plus against all the ground lords of war all 3 models in the formation would be bs 5. I don't think its a fire raptor versus stormwing thing, just 2 different roles to fill.

[Ozeryk_Sleipnijr]

Russ was displeased that day...

 

Seriously though. A sole Stormraven will help but is not the answer to the problem. I am not even looking at the talons, they will die from an angry look (and the heldrakes claws). Besides, if I were using the Raven, I'd like to use it as a transport, not only an AA platform.

Where in the Imperium do you get the idea that Russ would not be pleased. He  did not like teleporting thats it.!!! That was a personal issue, he did not even prevent other SW from using teleportation: (See the Emperors Gift). There is no fluff to support Russ being a dogmatic idiot in military tactics.

[Leif-thunderstand]

Thats the point, brother.

[Ozeryk_Sleipnijr]

I see that Immersturm has been corrected previously, But I have paranoia that some author at GW is gonna think: Yeah thats what the SW fans want.

[Karack Blackstone]

Well... thats actually fluffy. Were not supposed to have an interceptor, thats the imperial navies job.

 

Yep.

 

The lascannon stormwing seems like an excellent solution to escalation though. I think most if not all the D weapons are templates and therefore unable to shoot fliers, and the manueverability of the formation can put the lascannon in the rear armor more likely than not. Plus against all the ground lords of war all 3 models in the formation would be bs 5. I don't think its a fire raptor versus stormwing thing, just 2 different roles to fill.

 

That is my conclusion as well; I concur 100%.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

So, it looks like Tyranids got a new flyer-type unit in their new releases. This appears to be a trend with GW now. For all you nay sayers.. it only makes sense that Space Wolves will have a flyer coming to them. If we don't get anything special, I am sure we'll see SR or ST in our next codex. 6th edition is the first edition to have flyers (that are specifically not fast, skimmers).. It's a huge selling point for them, what logic would there be in thinking some Armies will not have flyer access? It's a huge part of how this new edition works and I fully expect us to get our own. 

[skeletoro]

The fire raptor has strafing run too (baked right in), not that it is a big deal when most of its weapons are twin linked (including avenger bolt cannon).

 

Also, the fire raptor's points cost is about 1 grey hunter less than the cost you listed above.

 

I think its not quite so much about fire raptors being better anti ground and worse anti air. They provide a lot of versatility in that they have high rate of fire, middling strength weapons with the independent turret fire rule. You bring fliers? They can go full time anti flier duty. You bring MEQ? Power of the machine spirit avenger bolt cannon at your marines, independent autocannons at your light vehicles, stormstrikes at your heavier vehicles. That sort of thing. The stormwing seems a bit more focused on anti-armour. Asscans are good all round weapons but less so, when paired with a TLLC that has to shoot the same target.

[skeletoro]

Fire raptors can also take Legacy of Glory: Battle of Phall (+1 jink), which seems very solid, allowing the raptor to evade and get a 4+ jink save if it takes a hit (and presumably a 6+ even if it doesn't evade)... and the next turn (I think) power of the machine spirit would still allow it to fire one weapon at full BS (?) unfortunately it is not a cheap upgrade, though.

[Grey Mage]

I dont see why it would have a 6+ jink if its not eligible for the 5+ jink to start with.

[Thornoo1]

For those of you who only play at home you might want to try these models for your stormtalons, they are about $7us

 

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5501/4646356.5/0_665be_c0f4ed40_orig.jpg

[skeletoro]

It seems like the roc pattern storm eagle may be the best space marine dog fighter. With the typhoon upgrade you end up with 2 TLLC, and 6 krak missiles (4 of which are twin-linked). It's really nice IMO, because it has a good range and similar role for all of its weapons, making it relatively easy to put to good effect.not versatile like the fire raptor though.

 

 

 

and... Not available to wolves. Whats the best way to get one into a space wolves list? I guess allied marines is the only way as there's no dataslate etc.. Hmm. Me wants one.

 

also, hmm. No ceramite for fire raptors.