Lectio Divinitatus

[The Painting Pirate]

Sorry if this is the wrong forum to be asking questions on fluff in this manner.

 

I am creating a DIY chapter called the Golden Talons. The chapter will be highly religious and I am modeling them towards something similar to the Priory of Sion Opus Dei of the Catholic church. If you have seen the Davinci Code you will know what I am talking about. Stuff like whipping yourself and things like that will be prevalent in the chapter culture for example. The chapter itself is a sort of mix between the Dark Angels (monks), the Blood Angels (crazy close combat) and the World Bearers (religious), before their fall.

 

Anyways, I am in the middle of writing up the timeline for the chapter and came across the Lectio Divinitatus on the 40k wika. For those of you unfamiliar with it, here is a link: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Lectitio_Divinitatus

 

What I wanted to know is if my chapter started worship of the Emperor in secret in M33, would adaption of the Lectio Divinitatus be considered outright heresy in the eyes of all space marines? Now let me be clear here because the line is difficult to draw. I am aware that until the formation of the Imperial Cult, worship of the Emperor would be at the very least frowned upon. But would the useage of the Lectio Divinitatus be on the same level as turning to Chaos considering the World Bearers did eventually fall to Chaos?

 

I ask because the Lectio Divinitatus was written before the fall of the World Bearers and champions of the cause were later given sainthood by the Imperial Cult and the Lectio Divinitatus itself was the foundation of the Imperial Cult.

 

So my line of thinking for the timeline is that the chapter worships the Emperor in secret in M33, adapts the Lectio Divinitatus and then in M34 the Imperial Cult is formed and the chapter no longer has to worship in secret.

[Kierdale]

I think there'd be a lot of variables...

How many people know of the LT after the Heresy and the Scouring, for one.

 

Where your marines found their copy of the LT and what they believe the source to be, is another.

 

Actually, how they get their hands on it could be very interesting. An inquisitor, a Lord of Terra or Priest of the Imperial Cult (if you change your timeline a little) hoping to keep the chapter under their thumb/in their pocket...and whether that individual (or group) even knows the true origin of the text. The Imperial isn't the most communicative of regimes.

Heck, even Tzeentch could have had a hand in them getting theirs on it. Never know what he's got planning...

[Brother Tyler]

You're confusing the Priory of Sion with the Opus Dei.

The teachings of the Lectio Divinatus basically evolved into what we now know as the Ecclesiarchy/Imperial Cult. There is precedent for Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes following the Imperial Cult to one degree or another (Black Templars, Fire Angels).

So your concept is sound. The trick now is just to refine ideas.

[Banelord]

10,000 years is a long time and information about Horus Heresy is kept strictly “need to know”. So, how many people, apart from the Inquisition, would have even heard of the Lectio Divnitatus, let alone who wrote it.

As far as I know most chapters don’t take much notice of the Imperial cult or the Ecclesiarchy, they have their own traditions and worship the Emperor
in their own way. So I don’t think it would be considered heresy by other space marines, but the Inquisition might keep an eye on them like they do all other chapters I’d suspect.

But my lore is a bit rusty so don’t quote me on that.

[Grotsmasha]

Basically, you'd like to know if it's cool to have Space Marines who rever The Big E as a god, rather than the greatest of all men? 

Yep, sure is!!! There's even precedent within GW's own law (a specific example escapes me). As to whether or not anyone will do anything to stop them, well, nope. Considering you'll have them founded M33, that's a lot of history for someone to come along and say, Nope, you can't do that, BAM, renegades.

 

Cheers,

Jono

[Vincent val Munshin]

Hell man, you've got the new and 'improved' Templar to fall back on for that, and they've been doin it since M31

[The Painting Pirate]

Hell man, you've got the new and 'improved' Templar to fall back on for that, and they've been doin it since M31

 

I guess the main difference between my chapter and the Black Templars is the BTs show their zealotry externally first and foremost where as my chapter use that zealotry internally to, (as they see it), protect themselves from demonic taint. The early history of the chapter will include demonic possession and eventual destruction of 2 companies within the chapter. The religious zeal, (and removal of the Librarians), is the answer as they see it.

 

It is admittedly a small difference but it changes the way they act in several key areas of chapter culture and fighting. For example Chaplains play a stronger leadership role in the chapter. I am actually toying with the idea of having the chapter master be a chaplain for example. At the very least, Chaplains will play a key role in company leadership.

[The Painting Pirate]

 

Basically, you'd like to know if it's cool to have Space Marines who rever The Big E as a god, rather than the greatest of all men?
Yep, sure is!!! There's even precedent within GW's own law (a specific example escapes me). As to whether or not anyone will do anything to stop them, well, nope. Considering you'll have them founded M33, that's a lot of history for someone to come along and say, Nope, you can't do that, BAM, renegades.

Cheers,
Jono

Well the Imperial Cult was formalised as the religion of man in early(?) M34, so it's not too much time to keep it hidden. Between 50 to 100 years. There is a reasonable amount of time there for them to be found out, and in fact I will be including an investigation by the Inquisition in the beginnings of their Emperor worship. But the investigation will be dropped for several reasons.

[SpecialIssue]

This is interesting, as we actually don't know what the Adeptus Astartes of the time thought or how they reacted to the change of Imperial culture and rise of the Ecclesiarchy as an official body in the Imperium. How would have the different chapter's have reacted, based on their temperament; in particular the 1st and second founding which could maybe still remember their primarchs lives and the Imperial Truth? There would have been some division between the different gene-lines, within the gene lines and between individual marines, based on their sense of traditionalism, as well as friction with the increasingly religious mortal authorities of the Imperium. I bet a few wars would have broken out.

 

I say go for it! The Cult of the Emperor was already a major power in the Imperium hundreds of years, if not millennia before it became official, so I wouldn't be surprised if a few chapters would have openly dedicated themselves to it before the Ecclesiarchy got a High Lord seat; in particular the new chapters being founded at the time. Might have created some conflict with traditionalist chapters and even their primogenitors, but thats just ripe fluff material!

[The Painting Pirate]

This is interesting, as we actually don't know what the Adeptus Astartes of the time thought or how they reacted to the change of Imperial culture and rise of the Ecclesiarchy as an official body in the Imperium. How would have the different chapter's have reacted, based on their temperament; in particular the 1st and second founding which could maybe still remember their primarchs lives and the Imperial Truth? There would have been some division between the different gene-lines, within the gene lines and between individual marines, based on their sense of traditionalism, as well as friction with the increasingly religious mortal authorities of the Imperium. I bet a few wars would have broken out.

 

I say go for it! The Cult of the Emperor was already a major power in the Imperium hundreds of years, if not millennia before it became official, so I wouldn't be surprised if a few chapters would have openly dedicated themselves to it before the Ecclesiarchy got a High Lord seat; in particular the new chapters being founded at the time. Might have created some conflict with traditionalist chapters and even their primogenitors, but thats just ripe fluff material!

 

You raise a good point. I could make it in the fluff that some chapters strongly dislike my chapter because they treat the Emperor as a god. Space Wolves come to mind. Maybe Ultramarines too?

[JasonDrew1995]

If you want a bunch of Space Marine chapters that decide to not be independent from the politics of the Imperium, then I forward you a list of chapters that I know of on Lexicanum or Warhammer 40k wiki.

 

Inquisiton:

1) Red Hunters.

2) Exorcists.

Ecclesiarchy:

1) Fire Angels.

2) (Maybe the Black Templars and successor chapters, maybe?).

Adeptus Mechanicus:

1) Praetors of Orpheus.

2) Iron Hands (and pretty much all of there successor chapters).

Last, but definitely not least, the Adeptus Administratium, and my favourite chapter ever:

1) Minotaurs.

 

These chapters are the most renowned to have allegiance to one of the many famous factions of the Imperium.

[XKhalilX]

You're confusing the Priory of Sion with the Opus Dei.

The teachings of the Lectio Divinatus basically evolved into what we now know as the Ecclesiarchy/Imperial Cult. There is precedent for Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes following the Imperial Cult to one degree or another (Black Templars, Fire Angels).

So your concept is sound. The trick now is just to refine ideas.

tyler, the black templars believe the emperor is divine and a god? if so, was that a belief that sigismund adhered to or did the chaoter develop it later? i know only of garro to believe he was divine in regarss to heresy era marines (excl. word bearers).

[Veteran Sergeant]

You're confusing the Priory of Sion with the Opus Dei.

The teachings of the Lectio Divinatus basically evolved into what we now know as the Ecclesiarchy/Imperial Cult. There is precedent for Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes following the Imperial Cult to one degree or another (Black Templars, Fire Angels).

So your concept is sound. The trick now is just to refine ideas.

tyler, the black templars believe the emperor is divine and a god? if so, was that a belief that sigismund adhered to or did the chaoter develop it later? i know only of garro to believe he was divine in regarss to heresy era marines (excl. word bearers).

It's not really clear. This is a new development. Previous to the 6th Edition Codex it was assumed the Black Templars were just spazzes. The new fluff turned them into Pentacostals speaking in tongues and best buddies with the Sisters.

[XKhalilX]

You're confusing the Priory of Sion with the Opus Dei.

The teachings of the Lectio Divinatus basically evolved into what we now know as the Ecclesiarchy/Imperial Cult. There is precedent for Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes following the Imperial Cult to one degree or another (Black Templars, Fire Angels).

So your concept is sound. The trick now is just to refine ideas.

tyler, the black templars believe the emperor is divine and a god? if so, was that a belief that sigismund adhered to or did the chaoter develop it later? i know only of garro to believe he was divine in regarss to heresy era marines (excl. word bearers).

It's not really clear. This is a new development. Previous to the 6th Edition Codex it was assumed the Black Templars were just spazzes. The new fluff turned them into Pentacostals speaking in tongues and best buddies with the Sisters.

[XKhalilX]

wow ill stick with the fluff of previous editions on BTs. becoming emperor worshippin sis loving warriors with only a partial distaste for the witch. then clipping the manhood of everything that made the iron hands cool and unique.

 

im glad i dont play and only deal with painting and fluff. otherwise id see myself pitching a fit!