Stormwing Formation: Has Our Air Solution Landed?

[SvenONE]

http://www.blacklibrary.com/games-workshop-digital-editions/Dataslate-Adeptus-Astartes-Storm-Wing.html

 

I'll be honest, I'm actually excited about this and I think of all the codices to benefit, I think ours does the most.  I would almost add that it would make any multi C:DA Flyer (aka more than one DT/NJ) obsolete, if they ever even existed at all.  I already have a stormraven and will proxy my darktalons as stormtalons (they share the talons!!).

 

This is pretty big if you ask me.  Granted there is a significant cost investment, but this allows a considerable amount of flexibility to our list building.  Given that this is a formation the stormtalons won't take up FA, meaning we can still run non-sammael GW/RW bike lists with a cheap libby/company master HQ.  This REALLY helps RW lists vs heldrakes and other ignore cover lists.  I'm going to grab it later on his afternoon when I get back to my iPad.

 

I don't want to say that the DA Fliers are obselete, the flexibility is still there if you want to take 1, but in most lists it's VERY rare to see a DA flier at all, let alone multi flier lists which I think this formation would replace.  What do we think? Have our prayers been answered?

 

Edit:  I should also add, that it's 1 reserve roll for all 3.  This is looking like more and more of a no-brainer for people interesting in including fliers in their DA lists.

[Phaeton]

Great formation. Looks like our jetfighters finally found their way to army - they are good for count-as Talons.

Imagine: black Ravenwing SR, accompanied by two Nephilim Jetfighters. Beautiful and deadly. And our AA problem solved. Thank you, GW, for the present!

[Master Avoghai]

Funny I've posted more or less the same question here :

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284047-advent-calendar-and-the-unforgiven/?do=findComment&comment=3538234

 

;)

[captain sox]

So do we still need to have an allied detachment, ie HQ and Troop from Codex: Space Marines, or can we just use the Talon and Raven as is?

 

If so, this is very interesting news....

 

Thanks!

[SvenONE]

They don't count as an allied detachment.  They however can only come as a formation so long as they fall within the rules of your allied rules.  So in this case these are C:SM who we are battle brothers with.  

 

Fire up those jets!

[Rhodric]

This is a huge point investment, I'm assuming this is for larger battles? 1850+?

 

But awesome news none the less!

[march10k]

So...what's the legality of using them?  Do the fall into the army book supplement (like farside for tau) category, or into the "allied contingent above and beyond the usual limit of one" category, like inquisitors, or are they treated the same as IA units (like repressors for sisters), or what?  In any case, I can see TOs disallowing them early and often...and in casual play, I'd say "sure, you can bring that detachment.  Do you like my pair of thunderbolts?"

[SvenONE]

I think they fall in line with how the inquisition is categorized.  They don't take up an allied slot which means you could have an ally as well as the said detachment.

[Master Avoghai]

I think they fall in line with how the inquisition is categorized.  They don't take up an allied slot which means you could have an ally as well as the said detachment.

Exactly as I quoted in the above link :

 

« Formations do not count as your army’s Allied Detachment, even if they are made up of units from a different codex to your Primary Detachment, and they do not stop you from taking an Allied Detachment in the same army. However, the Levels of Alliance rules from the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook do apply to them and units chosen from a different codex that are in the same army. »

 

So technically, in the same army list, I can field (providing I have the point).

 

- a primary detachment of DW

- an allied detachment of GK

- an inquisitor and his followers

- the stormwing formation

[Larhendiel]

This formation costs over 400 points and takes allied detachment slot, our troops cannot be embarked upon it unfortunately.

 

The only good thing about this formation from our point of view is flying altillery that can deal havoc to enemy fliers as well as ground units, t-linked lascannons, multimeltas with power of the machine spirit?
Awesome, but...... I don't think I'd be getting it, simply because of the transport rules

[facmanpob]

This formation .... takes allied detachment slot...

No, it doesn't. I have the dataslates for both the Tau Firebase and the Stormwing and the rules for using them are identical. They don't take up any sort of allied or Primary detachment slot, they are their own separate formation. they do follow the allies chart rules though for things like psychic powers etc, so Tyranids can't use the formatioms as they are "Come the Apocalypse" with all other factions.

[facmanpob]

So...what's the legality of using them?  Do the fall into the army book supplement (like farside for tau) category, or into the "allied contingent above and beyond the usual limit of one" category, like inquisitors, or are they treated the same as IA units (like repressors for sisters), or what?  In any case, I can see TOs disallowing them early and often...and in casual play, I'd say "sure, you can bring that detachment.  Do you like my pair of thunderbolts?"

The legality is the same as any other 40k unit... don't like 3 Heldrake spam lists? don't play the dude.... don't like Tau Firebase Cadre concept? don't play the dude....

 

They are a separate formation from Codex:SM. So, as the DA are Battle Brothers with Codex:SM, we can cast psychic powers and do all of the normal things that we can do with Codex SM.

 

EDIT - Specifically, it has a rule called Independent Formation which explains that it is possible for Codex:SM units to embark on the Storm Raven from the beginning of the game or during, but the formation does not benefit from the Chapter Tactics rule

[Master Avoghai]

EDIT - Specifically, it has a rule called Independent Formation which explains that it is possible for Codex:SM units to embark on the Storm Raven from the beginning of the game or during, but the formation does not benefit from the Chapter Tactics rule

That was actually something I was wondering : can I give those 3 flyers a chapter traits? (Totally random example : iron hands chapter traits :rolleyes: )

[facmanpob]

EDIT - Specifically, it has a rule called Independent Formation which explains that it is possible for Codex:SM units to embark on the Storm Raven from the beginning of the game or during, but the formation does not benefit from the Chapter Tactics rule

That was actually something I was wondering : can I give those 3 flyers a chapter traits? (Totally random example : iron hands chapter traits )

Sadly not....

[elmo]

At last - an excuse to dust off my storm budgie of doom..... Bahahaha

[facmanpob]

At last - an excuse to dust off my storm budgie of doom..... Bahahaha

See, you knew there was a good reason to paint up that Raven a few years ago!

[Major_Gilbear]

I don't get this at all really... Why not just make them a squadron that's a single fast attack choice with 1-3 vehicles as described and add it to all SM books as an addendum - done. Doing it as an ally-but-not-really-an-ally-that-doesn't-count-but-does just seems stupid, faffy, and needless.

[johnyocum]

What I think they're doing with the dataslates (for the more expensive things like this) is seeing if some of their ideas for future formations/codex entries have enough support to be financially viable to release with actual rules (and treat these dataslates as 'experimental') that are less confusing.

[Rhodric]

If some one were exploring flyers in a Ravenwing list, primarily for fun, would the Fire Raptor Gunship be a better investment than this formation?  Given that the gaming group I play with may allow Forge World models/rules.  I'm very curious about what folks here think, as I was literally about to purchase a Forge World Fire Raptor Gunship yesterday and paint it as a Ravenwing vehicle.   

[facmanpob]

I don't get this at all really... Why not just make them a squadron that's a single fast attack choice with 1-3 vehicles as described and add it to all SM books as an addendum - done. Doing it as an ally-but-not-really-an-ally-that-doesn't-count-but-does just seems stupid, faffy, and needless.

Because it isn't restricted to Marine armies. Tau, Eldar etc can take the formation.... they want to sell Storm Raven/Talon models to non-power armour players. Same as they want non-Tau players to get Riptides and Broadsides so they can use the Firebase Cadre...

There's no fluff logic to it...

[facmanpob]

If some one were exploring flyers in a Ravenwing list, primarily for fun, would the Fire Raptor Gunship be a better investment than this formation?  Given that the gaming group I play with may allow Forge World models/rules.  I'm very curious about what folks here think, as I was literally about to purchase a Forge World Fire Raptor Gunship yesterday and paint it as a Ravenwing vehicle.

Depends on how congested your FOC slots are.... Raptor is a HS choice iirc, so if you already run 3 HS choices then you are better off with the Stormwing. However, a Raptor looks cool, and fully kitted out is 240 points (note - Experimental rules only, this may change!) in comparison to the Stormwing, which closks in a t over 400 points

[The Milkman Of Baal]

Well I like it, ok it might be a shameless way to get some people to buy the 3 model pack, but I've got two Nimph's sat on the side which I love to be able to use and a BA Raven who's been hanging around the ravenwing shelf looking all coy.

[SvenONE]

I'll no doubt agree that it is a shameless way to get people to buy the formation, but GW corporate scheming aside -- this is a really good asset for a lot of armies DA specifically, sure it's going to make other great codex lists even better (within the allied rules of course), but a lot of longtime  space marine players will most likely have the assets for this formation.  If you're a sap like me and bought the DA fliers when they came out, I think they are perfectly acceptable counts-as.

[Master Avoghai]

I just can't find the answer... Is this formation considered as a flyers squadron or are the 3 flyers totally independent once they entered from reserve?

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I still think this doesn't solve problems. You're still obligated to spend a huge chunk of points in AA (specially in 1500 points games) when ust 1 or 2 assets should be enough. So you get a decent AA, but that leaves the list weak in other departments. In my mind, planes chasing planes, specially with reserve rolls involved is still not a good enough solution for AA.