Plasma gun vs Grav gun

[thepowerofwar]

Ok so I have seen this be argued back and forth quite a bit so I thought I would start this up and try and chart this out to give a little bit of a clearer picture on them. They both are taken as an anti heavy infantry weapon but can perform other roles as well.

       Category        /        Plasma gun        /        Grav gun        /        Winner      /
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Max range      /               24                /             18              /        Plasma     /
Mid Range 9"-18" /          1-2 shots          /         3-2 shots       /          Grav       /
   Short range 6"   /             2 shots          /         3-2 shots       /          Grav       /
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Friendly Fire    /             Yes               /              No             /          Grav       /
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Debuffs that a weapon can do such as pinning or concussive that don't kill but weaken the unit that takes damage from these weapons should be taken into account as well

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

       Debuff's         /          None              /             Yes            /          Grav         /      

Shots at infantry with the gun firing at maximum number of shots for the weapon on average hit and wounding rolls.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  vs no save - 6+ /              111%            /              33%          /         Plasma     /
         vs 5+          /              111%            /              67%          /         Plasma     /
         vs 4+          /              111%            /             100%         /         Plasma     /
         vs 3+          /              111%            /             133%         /           Grav       /
         vs 2+          /              111%            /             167%         /           Grav       /
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Mobility of gun  /       No Restriction   /-1 shot and half range/       Plasma     /
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With monstrous creatures becoming more common and with the new nid book just around the corner multiple levels of higher toughness should be looked at as well. With most MC's saves are usually 2+ or 3+. So we are just looking at how well the weapons would wound them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        T-6              /                3+               /            2+ - 3+         /          Grav       /
        T-7              /                4+               /            2+ - 3+         /          Grav       /
        T-8              /                5+               /            2+ - 3+         /          Grav       /
        T-9              /                6+               /            2+ - 3+         /          Grav       /
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next is how well they can damage vehicles. The total number of chances to pen and glance is the best way I could figure to compare them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      AV-10           /       2 glances-6 pen   /      3 pseudo pen     /       Plasma     /
      AV-11           /       2 glances-4 pen   /      3 pseudo pen     /       Plasma     /
      AV-12           /       2 glances-2 pen   /      3 pseudo pen     /       Plasma     /
      AV-13           /            2 glances        /      3 pseudo pen     /         Grav       /
      AV-14           /                 N/A             /     3 pseudo pen      /        Grav       /
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       Totals          /                   8              /                 12             /        Grav        /

Ok so far it looks like the Grav gun is the winner of the best for the all comers type list. But if your area meta is more based around lite or medium armor infantry and lite to medium vehicles the plasma gun looks like it would work better for you. As where the Grav gun excels at the heavy infantry, heavy vehicles, and all the high toughness monstrous creatures is what you should be taking.





If anyone has some other ideas of areas that I have not yet covered let me know and I will try and add it in with as much of an objective view(aka non biased as I can) on it.

 

Added debuffs

[helterskelter]

Plasma gun can penetrate up to av 12, glance av 13, not sure how relevant this is I don't have the new dex to see what the grav gun does

[Captain Idaho]

It's a little misleading though. A plasma gun can and will kill Tyranids Gaunts, Orks and Eldar, whereas the grav weapon will struggle.

 

Range is an important issue too. You can always shoot 24" with it too.

 

There is no short range ("6).

 

Plasma is so the all rounder and better option in balanced, all comers lists.

[FragEmAll]

plasma for footsloggers as rapid fire is so much more useful than salvo on foot.

 

As for bikes? Grav wins pretty much every time due to relentless.

 

Both weapons have their place.

[SlickSamos]

Grav being even better on Bikes due to their Twin-Linked Bolters

[Black Cohort]

I will continue the praise for grav on bikes, otherwise plasma wins

[Giga]

Grav guns on bikes. Plasma on everyone else. 

[SlickSamos]

Unless you're Dark Angels, who might get them in 7th. 
Plasmaguns aren't a bad choice on Bikes as they are good at taking out low AVs and have the speed get to the opponent's rear amour.  Plasmaguns can better at stripping hull points off AV10 vehicles then Meltaguns because they can have twice the number of shots.  They also synergises well with a Multi-Melta Attack Bike due to their range, strength and AP.  Unfortunately they can't be in the same squad if you're Dark Angels...

 

Also a Combi-Grav on the Legion of the Damned Sergeant can be a good move.

[Captain Idaho]

Totally agree with the posts above.

[thepowerofwar]

Ok all updated.

[Giga]

I don't like plasma on bikes. Don't like risking such expensive models to gets hot!

 

DA can get grav guns AND bike troops by allying a bike captain with a unit of bike troops + a bike command squad. A pretty good option, too.

[Black Cohort]

I don't like plasma on bikes. Don't like risking such expensive models to gets hot!

 

DA can get grav guns AND bike troops by allying a bike captain with a unit of bike troops + a bike command squad. A pretty good option, too.

 

Make it white scars with khan for extra biker goodness.

[Giga]

Although keep in mind servo skulls are cheap and available to almost everyone nowadays, and they can really screw up white scars. 

 

If I was making an allied bike detachment like that, I'd prolly paint them up in my army's pattern or another DIY pattern overall, and make the captain so that he can double as both a bike captain with relic blade and bike khan, if needed. 

[Black Cohort]

While that may be true Giga, servo skulls can mess up ravenguard as well, and if you are doing an all bike list from codex marines then the only chapter tactics that make sense are white scars.  Even if it is only for the +1 Jink and hit/ run.

[thepowerofwar]

Now that grav has been out for a while, does anyone have any other thoughts on comparing these weapons?

[Azash]

On a related note I think grav pistols out perform plasma pistols. No gets hot on grav and its concussive which is a nice bonus.

 

A quick point though about grav and MC's. All MC's are not created equal greater deamons for the most part don't have an armor save. Plasma works against all MC's where grav works against "most" MC's. Not a huge deal if your playing friends in your own group cause you know your meta but in a tournament environment grav could bite you in the behind.

[Tiger9gamer]

I say plasma against DE, grav against most other targets. Found that out the hard way =(

[Kaedes Nex]

On a related note I think grav pistols out perform plasma pistols. No gets hot on grav and its concussive which is a nice bonus.

 

A quick point though about grav and MC's. All MC's are not created equal greater deamons for the most part don't have an armor save. Plasma works against all MC's where grav works against "most" MC's. Not a huge deal if your playing friends in your own group cause you know your meta but in a tournament environment grav could bite you in the behind.

 

That's true, but there's also the part where most people will never take a plasma pistol ever since they always cost 15 points. The only times they're even taken is for fun, people who want gunslingers, the plasma pistol wasn't optional, etc.

 

Grav pistols aren't only better than a "Nobody ever takes this. Ever." wargear. They're actually niche enough to be taken by their own merit for specific uses, regardless of how much better or worse they are than plasma pistols.

[thepowerofwar]

Thanks for pointing out Concussive I totally forgot about that. lol

But on an overview note the biggest complaint I am seeing is the range of grav. For me the range is not too much of a concern due to the way I already have tactics that I use for getting my infurnus pistols into range so with them having a larger range its actually easier. lol

[thepowerofwar]

Ok, so now that 7th ED is here does anyone feel that Plasma has been weaken or strengthen(such as the change in the vehicle damage chart) in its Role that it was being used for or has Grav taken its place?

[GreyCrow]

Well, I don't think they've been nerfed as much. Both are primarily an anti-infantry weapon, with an off chance to damage vehicles.

 

Plasma is still better for moving squads, while the grav gun is more of a defensive weapon for a gunline unless mounted on a relentless platform !

[minigun762]

Biggest chance is grav weapons are no longer serious anti tank weapons because they don't ignore cover and can't stack immobilized results.

[The Librarian]

Biggest chance is grav weapons are no longer serious anti tank weapons because they don't ignore cover and can't stack immobilized results.

What do you mean with "can't stack immobilized results"? If an immobilised vehicle suffers another immobilised it loses an additional hull point.

There was neither a change in the graviton rule nor in the vehicle damage chart in this aspect in 7th (?)

[minigun762]

 

What do you mean with "can't stack immobilized results"? If an immobilised vehicle suffers another immobilised it loses an additional hull point.

 

Hmm you're right. I wonder why I thought that...

Might've been a rumor.

[Captain Idaho]

Considering Orks are coming back in a big way, plasma will be much more versatile and consistent. You can damage their light vehicles easier and punish Ork boys just as well as Space Marines.

 

Combine that with 7th as a whole, it's all about plasma over gravitation guns. Daemons, Orks and Astra Millitarum all care less about graviton for the most part.