Plasma gun vs Grav gun

[minigun762]

Plasma is just s better all comers choice.

 

Grav, like melta, is a specialty weapon.

[knife&fork]

Grav is awesome on many squads. In the few instances where it isn't just have the grav guy be your dedicated grenade man.

[Disruptor_fe404]

As always, your meta determines it best.

 

I have a 3:1 power armour:non-power armour ratio in my meta, so grav is favoured.

[knife&fork]

There's just so many things these days with good saves and high toughness. Pretty much every codex except orks and d-eldar is full of them.

[Azash]

Considering you can't explode vehicles without ap2 and you can't touch things like land raiders without str 8+ grav is still very much has the +1 over plasma. Essentially is the space marine version of haywire, nothing in 7th has changed my cents ability so smoke a land raider a turn. What has changed is people think there land raiders are safer giving me more land raiders to smoke.

 

With orks and assault means trucks. Yes plasma can explode the trucks but at 12+" you have a 50% chance of getting a pen and then a 16% chance of getting an explode. A grav gun at 12+" has 3 chances to get that immobilized result which forces the orks out of the truck and out in the open where you want them.

 

Plasma is still better when it comes to non relentless platforms because its rapid fire. Beyond that this edition has seriously weakened flying MC's ability to assault making them more susceptible to ground fire. Which means outside greater deamons of slaneesh, nurgle, and tzeentch grav is still king for killing MC's.

 

Orks means mega nobz and that means grav to me unless someone else has a better idea on how to take them out.

[GreyCrow]

Nice analysis Azash ! Grav can be good, but your example of Centurions joins an idea I had earlier this afternoon into showing that grav can be effective but you have got to have a high volume of grav weapons within a unit.

 

I was thinking of making a 10 man Sternguard squad with 4 combi-weapons, which would be used as a "special" ammo of sorts when dealing with 2+ and 3+ saves because Sternguards are not good unupgraded for killing anything with a 3+ to 2+ armour save. Now, one could mention Vengeance Rounds, but in Rapid Fire range, Gets Hot! is a real pain, and so would 8 plasma shots. You can literally kill more of your squad in a volley of Gets Hot! shots in Rapid Fire than you can kill the enemy especially with Vengeance Rounds that are only S4. It's happened to me once !

 

On the other hand, Grav is the safer plasma and is a quite good complement to Sternguards even though they are not a relentless platform :

- 8 shots will put 3.55 AP2 wounds on 3+ saves and 4.44 AP2 wounds on 2+ saves, as well as 0,88 hull points + immobilized on vehicles

- 12 shots will put 5.33 AP2 wounds on 3+ saves and 6.67 AP2 wounds on 2+ saves, as well as 1,33 hull points + immobilized on vehicles

 

In the end, Grav against vehicles is only viable thanks to Grav Amp that allow armour penetration rerolls. But when looking for volume of damage, Grav has a good damage/safety ratio while lacking the versatility of plasma.

That said, in units with high numbers of special weapons, Grav is better in my humble opinion because it's safer and these units are generally expensive. For units that can only take 1 special weapon, or have low volume of shots (like pistols), plasma is a superior alternative to give an edge to the squad, regardless of whether it is rapid fire or salvo.

[knife&fork]

Tacticals and sternguard are not good anti AV units anyway.  Well sternguard can be, but then you are paying a ton of points for it. 

[Azash]

Without a relentless platform the loss to the grav guns effective range is what keeps plasma a good choice for tacticals and sternguard. Since I use UM chapter tactics the tactical doctrine in use before a mass plasma volley pretty much means your good.

 

Also used to run 3x ccombi plasmas per sternguard squad back in 5th when everyone pooped themselves over gets hot. Yes you will have bad rolls in some games but in the larger picture you won't lose to much. Remember you have to roll a 1 and fail an armor save. Also remember to roll the to hits separately so you know which model may need to take an armor save.

 

What it comes down to is grav for the most part is better than plasma. However rapid fire is better than salvo. So if you have a way to mitigate the disadvantage of salvo then grav is the best option. If you can't mitigate salvo then rapid fire is the best.

 

Only two ways to mitigate salvos disadvantages are relentless and drop pods. Pistols not withstanding.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

There's only one use of grav that I utilize/recommend that doesn't involve Relentless platforms, and that's packing the gravgunners in a Rhino.  If its moving and you shoot out the hatch, yes, you lose range and shots.  However, once the Rhino is in a good static position -- like say, parked on an objective -- then it becomes a bunker for your gravgunners to shoot out of without losing firepower.  Situational, but it has worked for me so far.

[minigun762]

There's only one use of grav that I utilize/recommend that doesn't involve Relentless platforms, and that's packing the gravgunners in a Rhino. If its moving and you shoot out the hatch, yes, you lose range and shots. However, once the Rhino is in a good static position -- like say, parked on an objective -- then it becomes a bunker for your gravgunners to shoot out of without losing firepower. Situational, but it has worked for me so far.

Seems like s good plan. Personally I'd take a plasma gun for the same role as I like the extra range but it's hard to argue with 3x the firepower!

[Ishagu]

Grav Pistol > Plasma Pistol

Plasma Gun > Grav Gun

Grav Cannon >>>>>>>>>> Plasma Cannon