2k iron hands - first attempt

[matb_johns]

hi all,

 

here is my first bash at an iron hands list - gone for pride of the legion

 

tac wise going to sit in mid-field and grind it out in true iron hand style

 

 

 

HQ

 

Praetor with cataphracti term armour, volkite, paragon blade, d/lasers, cyber familiar and iron father

 

Primus medicae with cataphracti term armour and volkite

 

both guys to go in term squad

 

 

Troops

 

2x Tac Squads 15 Marines with extra hand weapon, vexilla, serg with articifer, p/axe and m/bombs

 

1x Cataphracti Term Squad of 8 with p/blaster, 7x volkites, 7x p/axes and c/fist 

 

 

Elites

 

2x Apothecaries with augury scanner

to go into tac squads to boost survivability

 

3x rapier weapon batteries with laser destroyers

anti-tank duties here

 

1x Mortis contemptor dread with 2x kheres assault cannons

anti-flyer duties if/when needed and support to tac squads

 

Heavy

2x Sicaran Tanks with h/bolter sponsons and blessed autosimulacra

sit back and hose enemy tranports (cursed wave serpents, etc)

 

 

let me know what you think as wanting to order the models for xmas ;p

 

 

mainly going to face 40k opponents, crons, s/wolves, orks, chaos, elder, nids

 

 

 

[thor1234]

First up... If you're going for pride of the Legion, then only Terminators and veterans count as compulsory troops so you'd need another of either unit, an idea, maybe swap out one tactial squad for another Terminator unit???

 

the only thing Id consider changing is the Plasma Blasters on the termies, swapping to Reapers, this would give you some extra punch at range (help with those serpants!)

if you really want to take plasmba blaster on the first unit, try to boost them to 10 men to get a second Blaster in the unit?

2 would be much more benficial than just 1 after all.......

you could possibly get the points by by dropping one Laser destroyer, then you can spit the unit up into 2 single ones, allowing you to spread their firepower around, aslo if gain you can find the points (not sure where though) swap the sicaran Heavy Bolters for nLascannons ans this synergises with what you plan to use them for........

 

 

hope some of my points make sense and are helpful....

Thor

[matb_johns]

Thx for advice (I really need to read the rites properly) just seen damned forge world just released the immortals models (damn them an Thierry funky wares) must say tempted to swap out tac squad to breacher squads so I can use the immortals models anyone used breaches find them any good and are graviton guns any use (look a bit meh to me)

[Russ Brother 92]

hi all,

 

here is my first bash at an iron hands list - gone for pride of the legion

 

tac wise going to sit in mid-field and grind it out in true iron hand style

 

 

 

HQ

 

Praetor with cataphracti term armour, volkite, paragon blade, d/lasers, cyber familiar and iron father - This guy CAN be a beast, however he IS very slow and quite pricey, I run mine (PoTL as well) bare bones (Cataphractii, Paragon, D-Lasers & Volkite) so if he does die to that AP2 I10 S10 toting Daemon Prince it's not so hard to take.

 

Primus medicae with cataphracti term armour and volkite - I can deffo see this guy working well, can tank enemy shots and help your expensive guys live.

 

both guys to go in term squad - these guys in one squad is a hell of a target, we're talking 500+ Points, your warlord + your only 2+ Saves in one small egg-basket.

 

 

Troops

 

2x Tac Squads 15 Marines with extra hand weapon, vexilla, serg with articifer, p/axe and m/bombs - whilst not compulsory, I feel you're better off having either 10 Vet Tacs or terminators, more capture/hold chances and more options - plus it means once your enemy tanks one unit they are forced to try another.

 

1x Cataphracti Term Squad of 8 with p/blaster, 7x volkites, 7x p/axes and c/fist - a decent mock up, however you're better off having more variety in the weapons (so Mauls, Swords, Axes and perhaps 1 Fist for the added assurance against walkers) - I also have all my Sgts w/ a Grenade Harness (defensive/offensive grenades on terminators are amazing).

 

 

Elites

 

2x Apothecaries with augury scanner

to go into tac squads to boost survivability

 

3x rapier weapon batteries with laser destroyers - These guys can work well but how many Rapiers per battery? 1? 3? If it's only 1 they may get taken out pretty quickly by infantry.

anti-tank duties here

 

1x Mortis contemptor dread with 2x kheres assault cannons - This guy will be brilliant, he's putting out 12 S6 AP4 Rending shots a turn.

anti-flyer duties if/when needed and support to tac squads

 

Heavy

2x Sicaran Tanks with h/bolter sponsons and blessed autosimulacra - Not tried these yet but they look awesome if used on the right targets and can even pop a flyer with the right dice.

sit back and hose enemy transports (cursed wave serpents, etc)

 

 

let me know what you think as wanting to order the models for xmas ;p

 

 

mainly going to face 40k opponents, crons, s/wolves, orks, chaos, elder, nids - I recently (last Thursday) played a 2v2 3k match (my 1500 HH IHs, 40k IHs vs 3k Daemons) it was darn close and key pointer was the Invulnerables innate to daemons, otherwise they're very capable of tearing apart any force - I've got a 2k match this Thursday as well so I'll let you know that outcome.

 

@matb_johns - my comments/thoughts are in red.

 

I've also put my most recent list (1500pts) beneath;

 

Praetor - Cataphractii, M-C Paragon, Volkite, Digi-Weapons & Grenade Harness

 

Termi Squad A - 7 Men, Cataphractii, Autocannon, PF, CF, 3x C-Weapons, Volkite Charger & Sgt w/ LC & Grenade Harness

 

Termi Squad B - 6 Men, Cataphractii, Plasma Blaster, PF, CF, TH, 2x Paired LCs & Sgt w/ C-Weapon & Grenade Harness

 

Termi Squad C - 6 Men, Cataphractii, Plasma Blaster, PF, CF, TH, 2x C-Weapons, Volkite Charger, LC & Sgt w/ Volkite Charger & Grenade Harness

 

Contemptor - Heavy Conversion Beamer & Plasma Blaster

 

Comtemptor Mortis - Dual Lascannons.

 

Totals 1500 on the dot, for the extra 500 I'll likely add in another Termi, make squad C into my command squad or as a normal 'extra' unit, I'll also be adding some ML toting Heavy Weapon marines and something else...

 

Also - Graviton Guns can be useful - my army is solely terminators atm so I've not used them but they're good for deepstrike denial (can make terrain - even clear terrain - difficult/dangerous) or harming MCs.

 

Hope that helps brother.

[thor1234]

I'd say there's some solid advice from Russ brother there.....

 

on the note of breachers, i field 20 with my praetor and an apothecary ( a must for these guys)

and they are almost impossible to shift!

also to your Q's although 4oK grav technology is now the best thing since sliced bread, Heresy Era Gravity Technology is pants,,,,,, and not worth the ink the publishers used in printing their rules... as a heavy weapon with a blast, your breacher CANNOT move and shoot thrm meaning your combat tank tarpit must remain statianary to use the gun in the first place, then its a S trest to actually harm the guy you shot at?? 0_o  stick with Meltas or flamers on Breachers and you'll do just fine......

[matb_johns]

Thanks guys some real quality feedback, here are my tweaks so far

 

Still needs abit of work on terminator and he load out (based on your previous comments - just got to find the points)

 

 

HQ

 

Praetor with cataphracti term armour, paragon blade, d/lasers, cyber familiar and iron father

to go in term squad - will prob give norm term armour and iron Halo to get 3++ maybe drop iron father..... Will fit better with Gorgons

 

 

Troops

 

1x Tac Squads of 20 Marines with vexilla, serg with articifer, p/axe and m/bombs

 

1x Gorgon Term Squad of 5 with 4x p/axes combi-bolter and a/cannon c/fist, serg with thunder hammer

 

1x Gorgon Term Squad of 5 with 4x p/axes combi-bolter and a/cannon c/fist, serg with thunder hammer

Need to free pts for mix up of cc gear an grenade harness

 

Elites

 

1x immortals squad of 10 with 10x volkites, serg with thunder hammer and artificer

To support other squads at the front (love the models not sure how good will be)

 

1x Apothecaries with augury scanner

to go into tac squad

 

1x rapier weapon batteries with 2x laser destroyers

anti-tank duties here

 

1x Mortis contemptor dread with 2x kheres assault cannons

anti-flyer duties if/when needed and support to tac squads

 

Heavy

2x Sicaran Tanks with las cannon sponsons and blessed autosimulacra

Could drop autosimulacra to free 20pts

[Moonstalker]

Gorgon Terminator Squads cannot be taken as troops choices (not even with Pride of the Legion).  See the Betrayal FAQ, which specifies that only Veteran Tactical Squads and Legion Terminator Squads are affected by the Pride of the Legion RoW.

 

The Rapiers, Contemptor-Mortis, and Sicarans that show up in all your lists are definitely a solid core of firepower for taking out light and heavy vehicles, as well as flyers.  I would be concerned about the range of the Kheres assault cannons if this is your only method of anti-air, as the dreadnought has to stand still to gain skyfire/interceptor.  Out of all the weapon options, it does have the best chance of scoring glances and pens on a flyer when skyfiring.

 

Immortals are alright, but I think a Legion Breacher Squad with an attached Apothecary is better.  With a 20 man squad of either, there is no price difference, just FNP 5+ for the breachers with attached apothecary and FNP 6+ for the Immortals.  The Breachers are scoring, while the Immortals get the Gun Them Down special rule.

[TheForgottenAngel]

You are wanting your Contemptor Mortis to do Anti-Aircraft duties I STRONGLY suggest autocannons. The range is great for that role. However I have recently tried Mortis with Lascannon options and it is very good at just exploding aircraft and tanks equally well however it will become a massive fire magnet. My suggestion is to drop a Gorgon squad and the other tactical squad for 2 breacher squads. Durable troops and are fluffy as all get out for  Iron Hands. Add in a second Apothecary so both breacher squads get FnP and you're in the  money.

[Russ Brother 92]

@matb_johns - kitwulfen & crusader are both correct, plus their advice is sound :)

 

Gorgons, like Immortals sound amazing in fluff - in game, not so great - Immortals pay the 'Gun Them Down' tax for too high a cost (only 6+FNP and slower than 'normal' breachers') compared to 'normal' breachers and Gorgons whilst having a nice special rule (which on a BG squad is very nice) also pay a tax, whereby you're likely to be better off running 'normal' terminators brother.

 

As for the AA fire, I prefer TLLC over Kheres, however if you can fit both in, you have 2 dual-role killing machines, the Kheres can focus on inf, light-mid armour and most flyers via rending/glancing and the TLLC can focus on heavy armour + pens on flyers or MCs :)

[matb_johns]

Cool guys some nice combos there, here we go then cookin on gas now brothers ;p

 

Still going with pride of legion

 

HQ

 

Praetor with articifer armour, paragon blade, d/lasers, cyber familiar, iron halo and volkite

2+ 3++ guy to go into the big breacher squad

 

 

Troops

 

1x Breacher Squads of 20 Marines with vexilla, serg with articifer, p/axe and m/bombs

 

1x Cataphracti Term Squad of 6 with 4x volkites, 2x p/axes, 2x l/claws and a/cannon c/fist, serg with p/sw, gren harness and volkite

 

1x Cataphracti Term Squad of 6 with 4x volkites, 2x p/axes, 2x l/claws and a/cannon c/fist, serg with p/sw, gren harness and volkite.

 

 

Elites

 

1x Apothecaries with augury scanner

to go into the big breacher squad

 

1x rapier weapon batteries with 2x laser destroyers

anti-tank duties here

 

1x Mortis contemptor dread with 2x kheres a/cannons

support to breacher squad

 

1x Mortis contemptor dread with 2x l/cannons

Anti-air and tank duty guy

 

 

Heavy

2x Sicaran Tanks with las cannon sponsons

[exsanguis]

Redacted. Sorry, didn't see that the boss man was going with the Breachers!

 

How would one expand a force like this to include Ferrus?

[TheForgottenAngel]

I really Really like this list, Its effective, balanced and will look great on the table top. To expand this to include Ferrus I would add Gorgon terminators and Ferrus. After that I would add another heavy or a Typhon/Fellglaive.

[Russ Brother 92]

I really Really like this list, Its effective, balanced and will look great on the table top. To expand this to include Ferrus I would add Gorgon terminators and Ferrus. After that I would add another heavy or a Typhon/Fellglaive.

I'd do something similar but take more regular terminators and Ferrus, I feel you get more bang for your buck with that. However once you bring a primarch you'll be facing much heavier enemy forces so need a very solid core to hold the line and take out the highest threats to Ferrus (can't be losing that 450+pts primarch to one shooting phase) so he'll need protection - for which I suggest either a 20 man + apothecary squad OR a 10 man cataphractii squad.

[matb_johns]

re: I was planning on using ferrus and expanding one of the cataphracti squads to 10 man with a primus medicae to boost staying power and adding in another 6 man term squad (would also add iron father upgrade to praetor and autosimulcra on vehicles for repair goodness).   I like the idea of the typhon superheavy too or fellglaive as feel fits the fluff nicely - thoughts on how good the fellglaive is? 

 

re: fluff wise thinking of going with Clan Vurgaan, Order Quarii (4th), anyone know some names for an iron lord/lieutenant or help/ideas for army fluff

[Russ Brother 92]

RE: The Fellglaive - it could be amazing vs all types however you'll need a good line of sight and some luck :)

[Moonstalker]

Comparing the Fellblade and the Glaive, the Glaive is going to do more work on superheavies.  With 1+d3 haywire hits, you can pretty much expect it to strip 3 hull points a turn with just the main gun - nevermind taking hull points off any lesser vehicles in between the Glaive and the target superheavy.  The Fellblade can only get that 1+d3 result one third of the time, by getting a pen (with s9 armorbane primary weapon, a pen is almost guaranteed) and then an explodes result (only 1/3 of the time with AP2).  Both tanks have the same sponson options, so it's a wash there, but the quad lascannons (or laser destroyers) can do a lot of work as well.  Still, within 48 inches, the Glaive has a very reliable ability to take about 3 hull points a turn off any superheavy, regardless of armor value.

 

That's about it for the Glaive's strengths, though.  The one inch wide beam will always, guaranteed, hit what you want.  No scatter dice, no rolling to hit.  But it may not hit as much as you want.  Careful spacing of infantry by your enemy will keep it from hitting more than a few troops at a time (though the ones you do hit are almost certainly dead, and you'll get a couple more deflagrate hits out of the deal), and likewise keeping vehicles from getting too clumped or parking them in a line in front of the Glaive will keep you from easily scoring multiple hits.  You'll have to work for that.  And even if you do hit multiple non-superheavy vehicles, a single haywire hit is not going to send anyone running for the hills.  The 2+ to glance is nice, but 6's to pen?  Even against AV10?  Awful.  The Fellblade can, at least, fire its HE round and nail several transports in a group, or an entire squad of infantry, and do some real damage there - nevermind also having the hull demolisher cannon.

[coloroutofspace]

@kitwulfen, right as always :)

nevermind Mathammer, I'd go with the Fellblade instead of the Glaive, unless I was playing Apocalypse.

[Moonstalker]

Of the two, I prefer the Glaive's model (that gun is just wicked-looking, and I can just imagine the fun of getting a 1 inch wide, four foot long acrylic stick to menace my opponents with/draw line of effect for it).  I think I would prefer the Fellblade's versatility and lower points cost, though.

[MorgothNL]

@mathb_johns - Did you get a chance to try out the list? I'm looking to build a similar list for my Emperor's Children, and I too will be facing mostly 40k opponents. So I was wondering how your list is performing, mostly because I am concerned about the lack of capturing units.

[matb_johns]

not yet just in process of buying the parts and spray guns to start in next month or so

 

re: model count I know only got 3 scoring but having gotten used to facing off against nurgle cult marines, the 20man breacher squad is even harder to shift than them (a real nightmare tarpit)

 

so the way I will run is to basically hose oppo's troops in the mid-field, while the av13 dreads and tanks deal with any choice targets (these units will be fire magnets to my meta, so he has the choice of attempting to shift my tarpit/terms OR dealing with the high threat targets an if he's shooting troops that leaves 6 lascannons, 2 h/bolters, 24 cannon shots coming back at him a turn from vehicles/dreads alone)

 

anyone got any decent clan vurgaan fluff??  or know where I can find some