Chaplain Admetus Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 I know I've been pretty quiet on the forums for the last few months, mostly due to playing with my evil pointy-headed space elves. However, this is a strategy I've been working with for some time when playing with my Blood Angels, and it seems to be working out quite well, so I thought I'd start doing a tactica on it. I very much admit that this is a work in progress, so any extra input, comment and critique from all areas is greatly appreciated! 1 - What is MSU? MSU stands for 'Multiple Small Units', and is a list stratagem that involves around using a large number of small units to overwhelm the opponent. Can be thought of as the polar opposite to a Death Star type build, which involves cramming as much as possible into a large unit and then relying on that to roll over your opponents. Strengths of MSU builds are threat density (lots of targets, normally too many for your opponent to cope with), and the ability to contest/capture numerous objectives. The biggest weakness of the build style is durability as the individual elements are normally quite easy to pick off, due to being small in number, and Purge The Alien missions are normally their weakest area. Two of the most potent tournament armies at the moment, Screamerstar and Seer Council, are good because they combine both of these extremes - being an extremely survivable unit with a high offensive output for most of the game, and later being able to fragment into multiple units to contest several objectives. Examples of solid MSU armies include Eldar Jetbike armies (that rely on the speed and agility of their jetbikes to get to far away objectives); Grey Knight Paladin armies (relying on very tough, small units that are surprisingly resilient, and banking that the opponent can't kill them all) and henchman spam; Space Marine Tactical armies (that use several 5/6 man tactical squads with a heavy weapon, keeping them cheap, and often using the Ultramarine Chapter Tactic); Dark Eldar Venomspam (taking several small scoring units, 5 warriors or 3 wracks being the most common, essentially as a tax for the Venom itself and its 12, 36" range, poisoned shots); and the ubiquitous Razorspam armies. 2 - How can Blood Angels employ this? As is evident from above, one of the key aspects of most MSU armies is that its units are often extremely cheap in terms of points cost. The most expensive option from the above examples is the Grey Knight Paladin army, which focusses on durability and the fact that often the entire army is capable of scoring thanks to Grand Strategy. Following that, the next most expensive (on a per-unit basis) is Venom Spam, which will run the controlling player between 95-110 points to net both a scoring unit to bunker down in area terrain, and one of the most lethal anti-infantry vehicles in the game. One of the most common complaints about Blood Angels at present is the extortionate cost, and on the surface it seems that we struggle to compete, with a minimum sized troops unit for us, with no upgrades, coming in at roughly the same cost. However, I propose that we can compete on the same level, through strategic application of the units and rules available to us. 2.1 - Razorspam Although arguably not as well as Grey Knights, Blood Angels can still play the Razorspam game. 5 man assault squads are the most common approach, allowing us to take a cheap unit with a special weapon, and get a discount on the Razorback. The alternative is to use a tactical squad, and as ever both options have benefits and drawbacks. The tactical squad can offer a bit of ranged support, thanks to 24" on their guns, but will sorely be lacking in added punch unless one buys the sergeant a combi-weapon.To demonstrate: 5 man Tactical Squad, Combi-weapon, Razorback - 155 points 5 man Tactical Squad, Razorback - 145 points 5 man Assault Squad, Plasma Gun, Razorback - 135 points 5 man Assault Squad, Razorback - 120 points As you generally want to stay in the transports for protection as much as possible (an exploding transport only has a 1/6 shot of killing any given marine) the extra range on the boltguns is mitigated; and for the sacrifice of 5 bolter shots you gain a plasma shot/melta shot/flamer template depending on taste, as well as a minimum of a 10 point saving. As such, it is generally recommended to go the assault marine route. Just bear in mind that the squad cannot assault on the turn it fires the plasma gun if this is the option chosen. Razorbacks come stock with a twin-linked heavy bolter, which can be replaced a twin-linked heavy flamer for free. Outside of very specific circumstances, the heavy bolter is usually the better option due to how close the flamer needs to get to be effective. Otherwise, for the cost of slightly more than two assault marines, it can be upgraded to a twin-linked assault cannon, twin-linked lascannon, or a lascannon and twin-linked plasma gun. Each is best suited to different options, so the choice should be made depending on the rest of your army should you choose to upgrade. In a vacuum, the twin-linked assault cannon is probably the best option due to its danger to infantry and light armour, with a chance to break through even the heaviest armour. Blood Angels and Grey Knights armies are both good at this approach, with Blood Angels getting fast Razorbacks to lay down the fire better, but Grey Knights getting psybolt ammunition to make stronger shots. 2.2 - MSU Jumpers This is an approach that I've been using recently, and to great success. It works by combining two special rules of the Blood Angels codex, Descent of Angels and Combat Squads, to get an approach which is extremely difficult to deal with. Rather than purchasing multiple small units, we instead purchase one large unit and split it in half. Three things are key to making this work - the special weapons available to the Blood Angels assault squad, the fact that they are a scoring unit, and the principle of the uneven split. Take as an example, the following unit: 10 Man Assault Squad, 2x Meltaguns, Power Fist - 235 points As a unit, this isn't particularly threatening to see on the other side of the table - it's expensive, and it dies just as well as any marine squad to enemy fire. However, once it breaks down into combat squads, we get two units set in the following fashion: 2Assault Marines with bolt pistol and chainsword, 2 Assault Marines with meltaguns, Sergeant with Power Fist 5 Assault marines with bolt pistol and chainsword What we have with the above approach is 2 units, each with their own clearly delineated role. We have an 'action' squad, and a 'support' squad. The 'action' squad is almost sacrificial in its nature and is kept in reserve. Thanks to the 6th edition's reserve rolls, combined with Descent of Angels, the 'action' unit has an 8/9 chance of arriving on the second turn, landing with precision, and taking on its target. If it survives the enemy's next turn, it can then range around the enemy lines taking on other suitable targets until destroyed. Due to this, and the dual special weapons being key, it is generally advisable to use the bolt pistol and chainsword marines as 'shields' in your deep-strike formation. The above squad is geared to anti-armour, and the power fist is optional (useful in subsequent turns). A similar squad would replace the meltaguns with flamers, and the power fist with a power sword (if anything), and is sent to dig out infantry units with weak saves and large numbers (Orks), or like to sit on an objective in terrain and rely on a potent cover save (Eldar rangers). The 'action' squad should always carry two of the same special weapon (flamer, melta or plasma) in order to maximise its effectiveness. Meanwhile, the 'support' squad is either kept in reserve as well, or deployed on table (preferably out of line of sight). The former enables you to avoid overwhelming firepower, and use Descent of Angels to keep you off-table until necessary; the latter acts as a nullifying factor to the 'action' squad in terms of reserve limits. This squad will aim to move to an objective and hold it, whilst the rest of the army deals with the opposing forces. The sergeant should be sent with the 'action' squad if he is carrying bonus wargear (power sword, melta bomb, thunder hammer, etc.), or kept with the 'support' squad if he has nothing extra to decrease their chances of fleeing from an objective. The aim of this approach is that the 'action' units damage the enemy forces, taking out key targets on the turn they arrive, whilst being a thorn in the side of the enemy if left alone, whilst it's the 'support' units that actually win you the game by taking objectives. A similar method can be achieved using tactical squads - 10 strong with a heavy weapon, special weapon, and transport. One 5 man squad will sit back, guarding an objective and laying down support fire with a heavy weapon - a Missile Launcher is generally the most flexible choice. The other 5 man squad, containing the special weapon and often the sergeant, mounts up in the transport and ranges forwards, providing close support to the assault troops. Either a razorback or a rhino can be used, the razorback generally being the better option. Since other armies can do this approach for fewer points, Blood Angels are better sticking to our strengths and uniqueness with assault squads as the primary thrust of the attack, though a single tactical squad for a little bit of long-mid range fire support is beneficial. This attitude to MSU also has one large benefit over other MSU armies: survivability. Due to the nature of the Combat Squads rule, we are under no obligation to continue fielding MSU when it would be to our detriment, such as in Purge the Alien missions or, depending on the opponent, Relic missions. We can also flexibly adapt as needs be, devoting some squads to the MSU style and keeping some as larger units, depending on the opposing army. 3 - Supporting Units The troops above form the backbone of an MSU style army, but fielding nothing but troops will be an inefficient way to play the game. As such, these are the units that I feel best supports an MSU approach to the game, categorised by Force Organisation Chart. HQ: Librarians of all flavour are the best approach. Standard librarian with jump pack (if using the jumper approach), or on foot (if using razorbacks) - generally Shield of Sanguinius and another power are the best options. Fear of the Darkness can be quite solid as a shooting attack when assault marine pistols are out of range, and Blood Lance can be a nuisance off of a deep-striking librarian, though this is riskier if said librarian is your warlord. Mephiston also fits well here, as he is fast enough to keep up, and has the damage output to be a MSU in his own right. Honour Guard squads are very expensive, but can pack four special weapons into one squad. They also come with Feel No Pain thanks to the Sanguinary Novitiate, and can pass this out to other squads that have dropped nearby. They -can- work, but at over 200 points are probably best left for larger games. Elites: Sternguard Veterans in a pod work well. A small unit poses little evident threat - 5 or 6 with combi-weapons will generally obliterate their target when they arrive and then roam around with special-issue ammunition making a nuisance of themselves. A very good alpha-strike unit, good for picking up First Blood or acting as a tactical 'No' button for the most threatening unit on the other side of the table. The weakness of this is unit is that they'll be operating without support for a turn or two, so don't put them near anything they can't handle unless their sacrifice is necessary. Sanguinary Priests are a key unit. Never leave home without one, possibly two. Keep them cheap to avoid overspending (as previously said, Blood Angels are expensive), but adding that little extra survivability to your small units helps to overcome one of the main problems of MSU. They're also useful when you blob up in the appropriate missions. Sanguinary Guard are too expensive for their points cost with no invulnerable save, and definitely dodgy in the elites section where Blood Angels have a lot of their best units. Best taken with Dante, and that's forcing you into a very different style of MSU army if you choose to go down the Goldenwing route. Fast Attack: Baal Predators get an A+. Can add some much needed mid-range fire support, give you some shooting, and can outflank for that perfect storm approach where suddenly they flank your enemy on the same turn that assault marines drop into opposing lines. Definitely opt for Assault Cannon/Heavy Bolters over the flamer Baal, due to threat range. One of the best units in the Blood Angels codex, and they support the MSU approach very well. Attack Bikes are also a solid inclusion, as they can threaten the enemy armour from early turns. Multi-meltas are the way forward, though a single heavy bolter can be used if running a unit of 3 to provide some variety. As a pair is better than solo, as otherwise the attack bikes offer an easy first blood target and are an attractive target in Purge The Alien/Scouring missions. Due to their speed and range, they are well positioned to support an Assault Marine based offensive. Vanguard Veterans get a look in as ours still differ from the Codex: Space Marines version in one key aspect - they can assault from reserves. Whilst we still pay a premium for their jump packs, this ability can be invaluable. It's better to minimise the unit size to save on points (and it fits the theme!),with 5 men taking our free glaive encarmine or power sword and purchasing some meltabombs. This unit can drop in and charge an annoying tank, or tie up a nuisance shooty infantry unit for a few turns (e.g. sniper scouts, devastators, rangers) if not kill it outright. Heavy Support: Devastator Squads are still helpful, and can lay down some fire support on the cheap. They may not fit the Blood Angel theme, but I've found a small investment into 5 marines with 4 missile launchers can help to knock out or weaken some opposing units before the small units arrive to mop up. There's no real point in investing into extra marines unless you have points spare that you're struggling to spend (rarely a luxury we have), at which point it may be worth purchasing an extra body or two to shield the heavy weapons. Stormraven Gunships are definitely worth the points. Expensive as they are, it's worthwhile having at least one to try and gain some chance at aerial dominance. At the very least, it can act as a check on enemy fliers. As a bonus, you can bunker a 5 man 'support' squad in it to try and ensure it lives in safety. 4 - Closing thoughts Hopefully this has been of some use to those who have been contemplating a MSU strategy with their Blood Angels, or are just looking for a different way to play their force. Hybrid combinations of the above units can work well, and a mixture of razorback units and jump pack units can be an efficient combination. The trick is knowing when to split your units and when to keep them together, as this isn't always obvious and isn't something that can be stated in a tactica, as it is very dependent on the state of the battlefield. 5 assault marines may not be very survivable, but you'd be surprised at the chaos they can cause when clusters of them pop up all over the battlefield, and demand to be dealt with due to their scoring nature. I urge you to give it a try, and if you do, may the Angel be with you! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284282-tactica-msu-angels/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafen IX Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 I'll definitely be giving this idea some thought. It's quite unorthodox which can only be to our advantage versus unsuspecting opponents. I'll let you know how it goes if I get a chance to run it tomorrow. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284282-tactica-msu-angels/#findComment-3540725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
t4play Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Like it very much I think I've accidentally built a list in this way Good read thanks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284282-tactica-msu-angels/#findComment-3540866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted December 16, 2013 Author Share Posted December 16, 2013 Can't help but feel kind of disheartened that this is just languishing. Anyone got anything to add? I'm hoping to do a bit more in-depth analysis over the next few weeks of certain units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284282-tactica-msu-angels/#findComment-3547530 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Frankly I don't think BA does MSU well at all. Just about everything in our codex is over costed so compared to many of the newer 'dexes we don't get enough damage output nor survivability to play the saturation game effectively. Depends on how tough your meta is but on the whole I find BA do best when we focus on crippling strikes. Generally with units good enough to do whatever they are supposed to do but not so costly that they approach death star territory. 150-250 pts is the sweet spot and only in very specific cases will I spend more or less than that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284282-tactica-msu-angels/#findComment-3547573 Share on other sites More sharing options...
t4play Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Can't help but feel kind of disheartened that this is just languishing. Anyone got anything to add? I'm hoping to do a bit more in-depth analysis over the next few weeks of certain units. Well I am waiting for more I don't have enough game play experience to add anything. But as I have accidentally done a list in this way I'm looking forward to learning more :-) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284282-tactica-msu-angels/#findComment-3547851 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogmagog Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Really good article, well done for the research! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284282-tactica-msu-angels/#findComment-3549330 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I think MSU was very much viable in 5th, but isn't very good in sixth. There's obviously the problems with mech now in 6th, but mostly the problem is with Assault Marines. With mech, fielding multiple Razors with ASM hiding inside means you've got a significant amount of points sitting in boxes doing nothing; whilst Tau for example will be shooting you with almost all of their points. Assault Marines don't have the guns to be used aggresively from Razors either. Using MSU jumpers and DOA is just as bad. Deep striking is usually for suicidal shooting units - ASM are neither of those, they're troops so you want them to still be around turn 5 and again they don't have the guns. Having said that, I think there's still a place for small units in BA lists. As ASM are expensive and fragile, you're not going to want to take that many of them but still need them for scoring turn 5. I can definately see a use for 5 man ASM squads in Heavy Flamer Razors hiding in reserves and behind LOS blocking terrain driving onto objectives turn 4. Much like Eldar jetbike squads currently do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284282-tactica-msu-angels/#findComment-3567850 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I have a local Blood Angels opponent who does extremely well with the MSU concept, typically something like: (depending on points)<br /><br />BA Librarian, JP, warlord, axe<br />2+ Sanguinary Priests, +/- jump packs, axes<br />3 5-man squads, las-plas and TLAC razorbacks, meltaguns, maybe axes.<br />10-man assault squad, jump packs, meltaguns, thunderhammer, SS, jump packs<br />Stormraven, MM, etc. Tooled to crack open vehicles.<br />5 or 10-man Death Company with upgrades, tooled to kill enemy elites and HQs, axes and hammers<br />Death Company Dread, blood talons, tooled to kill infantry by the entire unit.<br />+/- 2 Razorbacks, backup vehicle crackers.<br />Bigger games - Master with Hammer, jump pack, etc.<br /><br />Everything is all about choosing the weakest, juiciest flank and then assaulting you as fast as possible. The Librarian uses the (shield?) spell to grant the bubble a moveable cover save. The death company in the stormwaven with dread is a huge distractor that goes right at your HQ or strongpoint. The MSU will keep a spearhead formation with the assault squad, libby, and such in the center, as the assault squad is for counterassault. He get you in the position to bait you where you have to assault one of the dismounted squads (usually from wrecking or exploding their razorback). The priest coverage gives everyone a FNP bubble as well. As his vehicles are all fast, you are likely being charged turn 2. Sometimes he allies with IG command squad, vendetta, vets, Marbo, manticore for added fun.<br /><br />The big thing with BAs - even as MSU - is to get your blood thirsty marines into combat ASAP. You could easily swap out the stormraven for a LR Crusader for similar effect, with the dread running behind it.<br /><br />TLAC razors are preferred (somewhere we did the math and rolled a ton of dice to see they were better in the long run than the las-plas variant at killing TEQs or aircraft).<br /><br />Guaranteed more wins than losses...in the right hands. This guy originally played orks. Similar play style, less models, more of a challenge.<br /><br /><br /><br /> Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284282-tactica-msu-angels/#findComment-3568034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Well, if I can I'll try and get a game in this week with MSU style Blood Angels and do a batrep where I use the tactic, and see where it falls flat. The proof of the pudding is in the eating! (Knowing my luck I'll roll a Kill Point mission...) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284282-tactica-msu-angels/#findComment-3568042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanis Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I'm actually running a force like this, almost straight up: Razors, Raven, LRRedeemer, Baal, etc. But I'm really stuck on HQ's as of now, the Libby seems okay but I never really run many jump troops, many a 5-10 squad but they're usually socked hard by Warp Spiders or Broadsides as those are so fast or ignore LOS...I hope to see further developments and ideas on this thread as this is basically my army also haha. The Emperor protects! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284282-tactica-msu-angels/#findComment-3568559 Share on other sites More sharing options...
superwill Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Interestingly, I played a local tourney on the weekend which was 1250 points, and the guy who went undefeated (though technically wasn't the winner of the tournament) was running BA MSU, pretty similar to what is described here. I took a lot of interest, and whenever I got a chance I was poking over to his table to watch. (I was running Raven Guard, and was interested to see how his assault marine spam was doing). His final match was against a Tau army that just focused on mass firepower and insane amounts of dice. The BA player's tactic was simple - have more T4, 3+ bodies than the enemy can handle. He had something like 50 assault marines - every single point went into a model with a jump pack. He didn't keep any in reserve, he just set them up across the centre of the board and charged. The tau player had set up a Kroot bubble around his entire army, which really hurt the BA guy, but somehow the dude managed to kill the kroot, and take down a whole bunch of the Tau. The game was ultimately declared a draw because of time restrictions, but it was looking pretty good. From what I could figure out, he had as many assault marines as possible, a couple of BPs in support, and a single unit of Sanguinary Guard. I'm not quite sure what his HQ was, I can't remember seeing one. Anyway, from what I saw on the weekend, it was definitely a surprisingly effective strategy! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284282-tactica-msu-angels/#findComment-3568591 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Any sort of spam can work with the right match up, you just risk facing a hard counter. And the more extreme your list is the less 'good' match ups do you generally have. I recently faced a BA list with something like 50 marines, a raven and 40 guardsmen in chimeras. That resulted in a turn 5 wipe for me. Would probably have been a much closer game if we played for objectives instead of KPs so that he could combat squad the marines and he hadn't made the mistake of having the guardsmen mounted. Should have used the hulls as LoS/movement blockers instead. With a few tweaks that approach could give many Taudar players problem. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284282-tactica-msu-angels/#findComment-3568643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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