Stronghold Assault

[Stickeh]

Good afternoon ladies and gents of the B+C,

 

With the arrival of Stronghold Assault and Escalation, warfare in the 41st Millennium has just become a bit more interesting. Whilst D weapons have some people wound up, I'm more interested in the additional fortifications available from Stronghold Assault and the increase in options.

 

I've had a skim through the book and at first glance one of the best new options seems to be the void shield generators. For the price of a thunderfire cannon you can get 3 void shields, that count as an AV12 barrier that must be brought down before the generator itself, or anything within a 12" bubble of the generator, can be targeted. Each shield also absorbs a single D strength hit before collapsing, and every shield can regenerate on a 5+ at the end of the turn (so on average you'll likely have at least 1 shield up at least). This is HUGE, a firebase protected by these will be insanely difficult to deal any damage to outside of melee, and it can neuter an opponents superheavy for minimal investment. 

 

Alternatively you can get a single void shield as an upgrade for a building (without the bubble effect though) for the cost of a power fist.

 

For those worried about encountering a Baneblade in regular games of 40k, I wholly recommend trying these out before you decide to ebay your collection, and even if you're not concerned about Escalation the expanded rules for fortifications add a lot to mix up regular games of 40k. Anyone else found particularly efficient combinations in this new book?

[Nusquam]

I really like how you can buy quad-guns for the firestorm redoubt and actually mount it in the slot on top. That and you can have a redoubt with a Quad Icarus, Quad gun and Punisher gatling cannon at BS3 with razorwire all around. That is awesome. Another thing I like is that you can mount a quad icarus on the vengeance platforms.

[Gentlemanloser]

I'm really looking forward to facing a Tau Fire Support Cadre inside some Void Shields...

 

Or a baneblade.  Who needs a Landing Pad for it, or a Dangle Power Field Generator, when you can protect your D weapon Superheavy by a Void Shield Generator or two...

[Grey Mage]

Stops one round of shooting as an AV 12 vehicle... its nice, but its one of those quantity vs quality issues- a single razorback can reliably take it out. Yes, itll absorb d-weapons, but only if your opponent is dumb enough to not take it out with a conventional cannon of some sort *likely using power of the machine spirit, split fire, or a single shot weapon ala the tactical squad that has nothing better to shoot at anyways*. Theyre going to be incredibly effective... for the month or so it takes most people to figure out what theyre doing.

[Nusquam]

The thing with the void shield generator is that it can take 3 layers, and you can take up to three generator in  the relay network. So thats 9 AV12 shields

[jeremy1391]

You also forget that you can take a void shield on your fortification so you can effectively have an aquila strongpoint with 10 void shields!

[Gideon999]

Again what someone above said, voids are nice, but they are VERY easy to deal with.  There are a ton of weapons out there that can glance AV12, and you only need to glance them unless the new book changed that.   Almost any army can glance down 3 AV12 shields in a turn then target the juicy contents with something bigger.

 

Dont get me wrong, they will be useful, but they are pretty easily defeated as well.

[Nusquam]

Again what someone above said, voids are nice, but they are VERY easy to deal with.  There are a ton of weapons out there that can glance AV12, and you only need to glance them unless the new book changed that.   Almost any army can glance down 3 AV12 shields in a turn then target the juicy contents with something bigger.

 

Dont get me wrong, they will be useful, but they are pretty easily defeated as well.

 

True, but thats fire not hitting the rest of your army. Plus you can take upwards of 17 layers of the stuff, which is significantly harder to deal with.

[Grey Mage]

17 layers, at 25pts a layer, 425pts. You could get one of the smaller bane blade chassis, or a tooled up assault unit and its transport for that price... or alot, ALOT, of IG heavy weapons.

[Gentlemanloser]

All of those disappear instantly when hit by a D weapon.

 

Bar the 17 Void shields, who only lose a single Shield.

[Stickeh]

Question for all, say a devastator squad with 4 lascannons hits and penetrates a void shielded unit, would they remove a single void shield layer or 4?

 

Logic would dictate 4 layers (as would vehicle squadron rules) but it's easy to imagine someone arguing just 1 ('they're all firing at the same time!').

[Grey Mage]

All of those disappear instantly when hit by a D weapon.

 

Bar the 17 Void shields, who only lose a single Shield.

Yes, and?

 

If youre dumb enough not to have weaponry for cutting through AV 12 in 40k, regardless of edition, Im not sure any tactical advice is actually going to help. If you use your strongest weapon in the way that is least effective for it, thats hardly anyones fault but your own eh?

[Gentlemanloser]

Both sides have D weapons.  The one with 17 Void shield lives, the options you list without Void Shields die instantly.

 

That's the difference.

[Nusquam]

Question for all, say a devastator squad with 4 lascannons hits and penetrates a void shielded unit, would they remove a single void shield layer or 4?

 

Logic would dictate 4 layers (as would vehicle squadron rules) but it's easy to imagine someone arguing just 1 ('they're all firing at the same time!').

 

I would say same logic you can pen a vehicle multiple times. If one shot can take down a void shield then it doesn't have enough energy to soak 4 (unless you rolled 2- on all 4 dice, ouch)

[jeremy1391]

The ten void shield formation with the one obligatory fuel siphon comes in at 340 points plus an aquila strongpoint with a shield that's 560

900 points spent to make a structure able to take 10 d hits.

 

If an eldar player rings a revenant how many other points is he spending on AT weapons?

So the argument saying the aquila will die is flawed.

 

At most the revanent can drop 4 shields a turn, leaving you the ability to shoot at the revenant for two turns and a half turns before it can start damaging the strongpoint (assuming you fail every roll to bring the shields back up) so your aquila can get off 4 or more D shots at the revenant it will die most likely.

 

Also remember that you get the +1 to seize is still in place because you yourself aren't bringing a super heavy. So on average you will be going first ~80% of the time (50/50 roll off 32% seize) so either the rev will be in reserve and the aquila will just erase things with impunity for two turns or the rev starts on the board and starts taking it on the chin from the aquila.

 

I really want to play test this.

[Gentlemanloser]

Coteaz to reroll the Sieze.  IG to bubblewrap the Titan, not Eldar.

 

That leaves you whatever you bought with your Eldar to also hit the Void Shields.

[Nusquam]

Coteaz to reroll the Sieze.  IG to bubblewrap the Titan, not Eldar.

 

That leaves you whatever you bought with your Eldar to also hit the Void Shields.

 

Ally with Necrons with Imotekh to Sieze on a 4+. We could go around this circle all day. The point is that there is no one uber list, and theres always a way to win.

[Gentlemanloser]

Sure, as long as you bring Void Shields and D Weapons.

 

You don't, don't bother unpacking.

[Nusquam]

Sure, as long as you bring Void Shields and D Weapons.

 

You don't, don't bother unpacking.

 

Not true. I have made several lists across the codices that have no D weapons or Voids that I have full confidence in their ability to win against both.

[Stickeh]

Forge World are also (according to Faeit 212) releasing a PDF in the next few days in order to allow the use of other super heavies in the Lord of War slot. Imperial Titans and access to the myriad of titan-killer super heavies is bound to shake this up yet again, and give some armies *coughtyranidscough* a usable super heavy. With the re-release of IA2 right round the corner as well expect to see more C:SM super heavies than just Thunderhawks.

[Kaedes Nex]

IA2 did indeed add a few C:SM Lords of War like the Typhon.

[Grey Mage]

Both sides have D weapons.  The one with 17 Void shield lives, the options you list without Void Shields die instantly.

 

That's the difference.

Depends on how you deploy them, what your squads are worth, how lucky his dice rolls are.

 

I understand youre up in arms about this, and I get why, but its not as devastating as you think and blanket statements arent going to make the problem any better. So chill out. Its 4 large blasts that scatter and have to be clumped in groups of 2, and obey LOS rules. If youre playing deathwing it probably would be the end of the world, and I hope your DW assault runs awesome.... but Orks? Eldar?

 

Heck... mech eldar, that might be an amazing way to go right there.

 

[Gentlemanloser]

I'm a GK player GM.  small, elite army.

 

I have no hope.

 

 

Heck... mech eldar, that might be an amazing way to go right there.

 

And as I've been saying, the answer is to bring the same things in return...  Not a good game does that make.

 

Can't beat the Eldar?  Play Eldar.

 

/meh

[Tiger9gamer]

*DOOOM GLOOOM DOOOM*

 

Anyone play the siegewar missions in the book? I tried once and my White scars got destroyed by UltraMarines X-X

[Grey Mage]

I'm a GK player GM.  small, elite army.

 

I have no hope.

 

 

Heck... mech eldar, that might be an amazing way to go right there.

 

And as I've been saying, the answer is to bring the same things in return...  Not a good game does that make.

 

Can't beat the Eldar?  Play Eldar.

 

/meh

Well they were my first army, so perhaps Im a bit biassed.

 

That being said, I wouldnt count GKs as being down and out here.

 

Deploy out of LOS/under shields, and use the armies inherent mobility options to get close enough to kill the offending *and obviously false* inquisitor, then drop everything else in his lap nice and close.