Armour marks at Terra.

[GrandMagnus]

I was thinking, what armour marks would be present during the Siege of Terra? Obviously the MK II, III, IV, V. But what about MK VI and VII? The MK VI already existed and if I remember the Imperial fists managed to optain a shipment from Mars before it fell, but I remember reading somewhere that MK VII had also just been produced around the time of the Siege of Terra or shortly after. 

 

Can you shed some light on this brothers? 

[jeremy1391]

Mark 7 was used at the siege of terra. The first three legions to use it en masse were the blood angels ,white scars and imperial fists.

[Grotsmasha]

It was mk VII that the Fists obtained from Mars, rather than mk VI.

 

Cheers,

Jono

[GhostMalone]

Technically world eaters had use of Sarum Mk wich is practically mkVII

[Olis]

Technically world eaters had use of Sarum Mk wich is practically mkVII

 

In terms of basic outward appearance, maybe, but "Sarum Mk" PA was essentially Mk4 Maximus plate with a Sarum designed helm, iirc. It would, however, let you get away with using MkVII models for your HH army, in theory. 

[GhostMalone]

And if we think about it even collected visions show the high forgets of MKVIII even though it's a heretical :cuss mark.

 

I think if an army's based at or around terra parts of mkvii are acceptable even for traitors.

 

Think magpies stealing shiny new armour

[Don the Oiler]

Yep i think the Sarum pattern helmet was devised to sort of fill the plot-hole that has almost every 10,000 year old Chaos Marine in 40K run around in what looks like mkVII with teeth and horns.

[GrandMagnus]

Soooo, basically a loyalist Siege of Terra army could use anything from MK II - MK VII? Oh, I suddenly see a lot of oportunities for a Heresy Army.

[GhostMalone]

Yeah pretty much :D

 

Hence why I'm throwing the odd mkvii into my mainly heavier mk death guard

[GrandMagnus]

Music to my ears Now Im just going to wait for the following legions: Blood Angels and Imperial fists and see what I like best

[Kol Saresk]

I was thinking, what armour marks would be present during the Siege of Terra? Obviously the MK II, III, IV, V. But what about MK VI and VII? The MK VI already existed and if I remember the Imperial fists managed to optain a shipment from Mars before it fell, but I remember reading somewhere that MK VII had also just been produced around the time of the Siege of Terra or shortly after.

 

Can you shed some light on this brothers?

Mk VI is questionable. According to Deliverance Lost, every armor they got their hands on they sent to the Raven Guard. However, it does not mean that they couldn't have gotten their hands on some more at a later point.

 

As fr the Mk VII, shortly after the Fists sieze what supplies and loyalist Techpriests that they can, they put these priests onto the task of developing the Mk VII and it is ready to use just in time for the Siege, although it is unknown in what kind of quantity.

[AGPO]

The Raven Guard getting all the Mk VI is a new addition to the background which I'm not especially keen on. According to the older fluff (White Dwarf Compendium from the Rogue Trader era) Mk VI was a stop gap which used those parts of the Mk VII which had been fully developed alongside modified MkIV elements, most notably the helmet. It was widely used during the Siege after manufacturing was shifted there. The old index astartes articles had "pre-heresy" examples of each legion wearing Mk VI, so I'd say it's fine to use. For my money Mk VII in any significant quantity looks too much like a 40k army given how similar the schemes are for the V, VII and IX in both eras.

[Grotsmasha]

In regards to mk VI, multiple Legions assisted in its development and had small numbers of it, but the RG as the primary testers were supplied en masse with it.

 

Cheers,

Jono

[DuskRaider]

Yeah, I believe Alpha Legion had some Mk. VI prior to Isstvan V.

[Kol Saresk]

Idk about prior, but Forgeworld is definitely showing pictures of them in it.

[geordie]

I remember reading a piece of fiction about mark 6. It was basically that Horus' forces invaded Mars and acquired a whole bunch of mark 6 suits. Can anyone place the source of this? So basically some of the Sons of Horus would have been equipped in mark 6 during the siege. Notwithstanding what was pillaged from the dead on the surface of Terra.

[esinhorn]

If doing a siege force I would only use 2-3 Mk 7's tops and only for HQ's and Champs.

 

[Kol Saresk]

The Raven Guard getting all the Mk VI is a new addition to the background which I'm not especially keen on. According to the older fluff (White Dwarf Compendium from the Rogue Trader era) Mk VI was a stop gap which used those parts of the Mk VII which had been fully developed alongside modified MkIV elements, most notably the helmet. It was widely used during the Siege after manufacturing was shifted there. The old index astartes articles had "pre-heresy" examples of each legion wearing Mk VI, so I'd say it's fine to use. For my money Mk VII in any significant quantity looks too much like a 40k army given how similar the schemes are for the V, VII and IX in both eras.

I think you've been misinformed. The Raven Guard have only received 1500 suits of Mark VI, which was what was in the first salvage attempt by the Imperial Fists. We don't how much has been salvaged since then or where it has gone, or even if Mars was the only planet producing it.

 

We know the World Eaters have access to a power armor producing Forgeworld. Somewhere the Alpha Legion gets war machines out the ying yang. Both the Alpha Legion and XVI Legion have gained access to anti-Astartes bolt rounds, albeit in "limited" quantities in the case of the XVI. The Ultramarines have(had) one Forgeworld that was capable of producing Mk V Praetor-pattern armor. Heck, in Deliverance Lost we see the Raven guard's homeworld(which isn't even a full-blown forgeworld) being capable of producing power armor.

 

The point is, there are plenty of holes and ways to show that the Raven Guard have not received the majority of the Mk VI and that if even a suitably tech-capable hive world can do it, pretty much anyone can justify getting their hands on some Mk VI. Even if its salvaging it from a Raven Guard's dead body and reverse engineering before mass producing.

[Perrin]

So Marks 1-7  were made before or during the HH, and in the 10,000 years since only a single new Mark has been developed? That's pretty poor even by 40k standards. You'd think that new armour Marks would have been developed alongside the emergence of new enemies like the Tau, Nids and Necrons.

[Kol Saresk]

Since the Imperium of 40K is supposed to be on a technological decline that barely understands the technology it uses, not really.

[Hyaenidae]

Technological backslide, my backside. They hit a Technological Brick Wall, then began praying to the wreck that was left behind.

[Tyrannicide]

Exactly. Given that the Imperium wasn't as nearly a destitute empire during the time period, if the Tau or Tyranids had emerged during the Great Crusade they would've developed specialized tech and armor to face the threat. 

 

For my own Siege of Terra Imperial Fists army I've sprinkled a couple Mk. VII pieces into the force, and only 1/35 is in full Mk. VII; that being the Apothecary. It doesn't bother me, as I still think the overall look and feel of the force is Heresy-era, but I'm definitely limiting its use as much as possible. 

[Grotsmasha]

The cause of said "brick wall" is during the Heresy pretty much the entirety of the Mechanicums upper echelon sided with Horus, leaving their subordinate replacements post Heresy with restricted access to Mechanicum resources and facility ( passwords, locations etc weren't passed on).

[Kol Saresk]

 

The cause of said "brick wall" is during the Heresy pretty much the entirety of the Mechanicums upper echelon sided with Horus, leaving their subordinate replacements post Heresy with restricted access to Mechanicum resources and facility ( passwords, locations etc weren't passed on).

Actually its because after the Heresy, everyone became so afraid of placing too much power in one place that they broke the Imperial Army into the Navy Guard, the Legions into Chapters and restricted what the Mechanicum was allowed to build. The Mechanicus itself is blinded by religion, but is still much more advanced than the rest of the Imperium. It just doesn't share said technology while constantly regulating itself for "tech-heresy" with the occasional Inquisitorial interruption.

[Excessus]

Yes, the Raven Guard recieve a shipment of Mk VI suits after Istvaan V...but there is still 7 years of heresy left! I think the technology is not so restricted as to only allow the Raven Guard access to them (and AL obviously, hehe). My guess is that the further the heresy spreads, the more Mk VI gets produced/salvaged at various locations.