1850 vs Chaos (feat. Heldrakes)

[Brother Darklight]

Greetings Battle Brothers!  I need your opinions/advice! 

 

This week marks the first time I've gone 1v1 against a Chaos army that will include Heldrakes.  Two of them, to be precise.  

The idea was my Chaos buddy and I had a sort of 'arms race'.  He told me he picked up two heldrakes, so I picked up a Stormtalon and a Stalker.  Since then, we've used those models in 2v2s or other special games but never for their original intention...

 

 

... until now.  


I'm thinking something like this:

 

-Emperor's Champion + Crusaders [10Ini/5Neo] w/ PowerFist, Meltagun  mounted in an LRC
-Chaplain w/ Teeth of Terra + Crusaders [10Ini/5Neo] w/ PowerFist, Meltagun  mounted in an LRC
-Stormtalon w/ Skyhammers
-Stalker

But I'm not sure how to really kit out the rest of my list...  You'd think I would, since this is against the player I face most often, but I think I'm going to worry too much about the two Helturkies that I'll forget about the rest of his list...

Known:
-He will have 2 Heldrakes

He has an affinity for:
-Typhus, and all things Nurgle-y
-Meltas
-Bikes
-Mark of Slaanesh Marines (so they have higher Init than my Crusaders... cheeky bugger...) 
-Vindicators/Predators (usually only 1, but it'll be either-or)


What would you guys field in an 1850 point list against the above credentials?
 

[StMichael]

As a fair warning, I have no idea what kind of firepower a Heldrake brings. I haven't played a game since 5th edition (moved out of state, haven't found a regular place to play), but I know that if he likes Meltas and Bikes, your LRCs won't be on the table very long. I personally would opt for some thunderfire cannons (tremor rounds against bikes are double trouble) drop pods with your heavy melee teams, honor guard comes to mind, and a vindicator or two. That should be enough firepower to handle his ground force, I leave the Heldrakes to someone more experienced than I.

[Honda]

If I had to prepare for this game, in addition to the things you have already listed, I would:

 

1. Take a Master of Sanctity (i.e. Chapter Master), get him in termie armor with a Storm Shield. I'm currently running mine with the Burning Blade, but that's me. You're going to need something that can take on Typhus and he's no wimp. In my most recent game, my MoS kicked the crap out of Draigo. If he can do that, Typhus is going to have to be careful. The fact that the MoS comes with an Orbital Bombardment is bonus.

 

2. Assuming you have one, nothing says I own these 24 inches like a Vindicator. I would give it the siege shield so that it can ignore difficult terrain. See my last batrep for how I used it in an ambush. His bikes are going to be a little more cautious about zooming all over the board with that pie plate looking for them.

 

3. If you have them, TL-Lascannon Razorbacks with 5 man Las/Plas Archer squads are excellent support units for your Knights. Bikes aren't going to like those either. You could also just put them in Rhinos and let the Las/Plas fire out of the top. This saves you from the flying flamer of doom (i.e. Hell turkey).

 

4. I think that by putting your infantry into metal boxes, a lot of the fear that gets generated by the Hell turkeys can be mitigated.

 

5. The Stalker/Storm Talon combo should give his flyers a lot of trouble. I'm thinking you're going to either get two kills, or nullify their impact on your army.

 

My two yen.

[Marshal_Roujakis]

Slaanesh doesn't necessarily mean just the Mark... it could also mean Noise Marine Spam which I have to say is extremely annoying as they have weapons that are Ignore Cover, Blasts, Pinning but are Str 8 AP3.... be very wary of those as they are nearly as deadly as Hell Turkeys...

A Helldrake is scary if you've got most of your troops footslogging, but if he brought 2 then he could equip 1 with the Autocannon and the other with a Baleflamer (atleast that's what I would do) a good tactic is to get your anti-air in reserve in-case his Drake did have an Autocannon and have your Talon escort it. If the Drake shows up before your AA does then he might wanna say good bye to it... ;)

Typhus means Zombies and Zombies mean Pie Plates, he will most likely be placing these guys in objectives as a massive horde of 25 Nurgle Zombies. Bring out your Vindicator, Whirlwind or Thunderfire Cannon.

And I'd swap the Chaplain for a Chapter Master w/ Shield Eternal at this list points as well, sure I lose the squad buffer but better have a Warlord with 4 Wounds and Eternal Warrior by now... just replace the 15-man squad with a 7-man Squad Honour Guard with a Chapter Banner and you get the same deal except all Power Weapon Attacks. And swap the LRC for a Land Raider Redeemer and you got yourself your own AV 14 tank type Helldrake :D

 

Good Luck on your game brother! No Pity! No Remorse! No Fear!

[tvih]

There's hardly anyone that uses the autocannon on a Heldrake. The flamer is just so much better. Even with the flamer the Heldrake can still do AA/AT via Vector Strikes, plus who cares about an enemy flyer or two when you've already burnt all their infantry to a crisp?

One great way to mess about with Heldrakes, though, is to bring lots of 2+ saves. Honour Guard, Terminators. Anything with 3+ should be inside metal boxes, or maybe on a Landing Pad.

[Marshal_Roujakis]

Also of note, Torrent weapons still apply the same principles as Template weapons, i.e. they can only fire within one level of the top and bottom floors of where the Shooting model is at. So placing your "Archer" Squad on the 3rd floor of a ruin will make them safe from a Helldrake until it decides to Hover. for further info. check the BRB on the templates and ruins rule.

[tvih]

Interesting. I had forgotten that flyers weren't included in the list of being able to target any level of a ruin they want. Still, not so common to have 3-story ruins around here, especially in tournaments. And of course, that'll still leave them vulnerable to Vector Strikes.

[Brother Darklight]

Lots of great ideas here, guys! Thanks!

@StMichael:  Hmm.  An honour guard squad in a drop pod... there's a thought.  I've got 3 drop pods, one with honour guard and sternguard in the other on turn one.  Vindicators are always nice too... hmm.   

@Honda: Okay, first off, you gave me a glorious idea for my next character kitbash... Master of Sanctity, Counts-as-Chapter Master, with that epic relic blade from the vanguard box instead of a crozius.  +1 for Knightly things! 

Anyway, I'd consider Artificer Armour over Terminator since you can't sweeping advance with Terminator, and with the Crusader USR, one of BT's strength is the ability to wipe a unit in a Sweeping Advance.  I know that won't help against other marines/fearless units, but most anything else is susceptible to death from a SA roll.

Vindicators, yes.  That sounds like a glorious idea! And Razorbacks have become more appealing to me the longer I've looked at them.  

@marshal_roujakis:  He doesn't use Noise marines very often, more so just the regular Chaos Marines w/ close combat weapons and Mark of Slaanesh. However, it is a possibility that Noise Marines will make an appearance.  In my experiences, though, Noise Marine units are easily disassembled by Crusader units charging from an LRC.  So my EC and his cohort may have a designated target should he field them.  

Redeemer full of Honour Guard... damn, now I'm torn on drop pod Honour Guard or the Redeemer... Either are quite appealing to me :P

@tvih:  2+ saves, not a bad plan.  Though I really dislike the lack of SA with Terminators, so the Artificer armour on the Honour guard and such will have to suffice.  Metal boxes have grown on me for survivability and mobile line-of-sight blocking cover ;)


So clear winners here:
-Chapter Master instead of Chaplain
-Honour Guard
-Vindicator!!
-Boxes, be it Razors, Rhinos, whatever... 

Hmm.  I'll see what I come up with and post it to the Army List section.  Thanks guys!