Brother Heinrich Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Evening ladies and gents, Just wondering if any of you had any advice on the best way to bring down Eldar in the new edition, especially if your opponent happens to be 'that guy' who brings the Avatar of Khaine and two fire prisms to a 1000 point game. Open to any and all suggestions. Oh and just to give you some background on this, the guy pulled this out on game one of what was supposed to be a "friendly" campaign between myself and four other players. Things have just become very "Unfriendly" all of a sudden. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284375-beating-that-eldar-guy-with-ccsm/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravenguild Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Wrack his puny eldar incompetence with some obliterators, the avatar won't stand a round of shooting from them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284375-beating-that-eldar-guy-with-ccsm/#findComment-3542315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Queue up the Oblits and Heldrakes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284375-beating-that-eldar-guy-with-ccsm/#findComment-3542338 Share on other sites More sharing options...
like the lion Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 what is so negative about this guy? If he is within the points limit than he is good and should not be considered "that guy" he is playing by the rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284375-beating-that-eldar-guy-with-ccsm/#findComment-3542352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reichfaust Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 what is so negative about this guy? If he is within the points limit than he is good and should not be considered "that guy" he is playing by the rules. Let's play a thousand point game together sometime, I'm bringing three Riptides. I'd echo the sentiment about Obliterators, Heinrich. I love Havocs in bigger games (quad-autocannon ftw!) but Oblits are your best option especially if you don't have a massive abundance of points. Not super familar with the Avatar of Khaine's rules, how would he stack up against a Daemon Prince in combat? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284375-beating-that-eldar-guy-with-ccsm/#findComment-3542434 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Noise Marines with blastmasters and nurgle spawn. S8 AP3 36" Blast, Ignore Cover, Pinning will do wonders at taking out skimmers and troops. The spawn bog down and kill the Avatar, or even the tanks. Helldrakes are not the answer and will be more of a hindrance. You can have 4 MSUs of BMNM squads disintegrate anything not in a vehicle at 1k with enough points for the Slaanesh Lord and 2 units of Nurgle Spawn, and have some points to spare for upgrades for the lord. Did I mention the NMs are I5 and fearless? Awesooooome. I would use the above against Riptides as well. Even three Riptides at 1k wont have a lot of support, being 440 points minimum, closer to 600 after upgrades. The spawn will tangle up two quickly while the NMs melt any FWs/Kroot/Battlesuits. Riptides also like to flee from fights and get overrun. Cut a NM squad and attach a nurgle biker lord with a PF to kill the Riptides. Or two nurgle biker lords, plague marines in cover faaaaar away and more nurgle spawn. Edit: Or just bring a Shadowsword. Or would that just be... escalating the situation... *sunglasses* OOOHHHHHHH! I'll just let myself out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284375-beating-that-eldar-guy-with-ccsm/#findComment-3543054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted December 11, 2013 Author Share Posted December 11, 2013 Wrack his puny eldar incompetence with some obliterators, the avatar won't stand a round of shooting from them. What weapon would you say to use? Twin-linked plasma guns? Assault Cannon? what is so negative about this guy? If he is within the points limit than he is good and should not be considered "that guy" he is playing by the rules. Let's play a thousand point game together sometime, I'm bringing three Riptides. I'd echo the sentiment about Obliterators, Heinrich. I love Havocs in bigger games (quad-autocannon ftw!) but Oblits are your best option especially if you don't have a massive abundance of points. Not super familar with the Avatar of Khaine's rules, how would he stack up against a Daemon Prince in combat? The Avatar is WS10/BS10/S6/T6/5W/I10 with a 3+/5++ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284375-beating-that-eldar-guy-with-ccsm/#findComment-3543296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassWave Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I dont see how that is so horrible. What you need is some long range anti tank. That will fix both the fire prisms and the avatar. Really of all the things eldar can pull, that's no where close to being absurd. Unless we are missing info. What was your list? What was his entire list? How was his attitude? There are a lot of factors to consider. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284375-beating-that-eldar-guy-with-ccsm/#findComment-3543371 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravenguild Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 If you grab 3 obliterators you can double tap plasma near him by deepstriking or you can plink away at the tanks from afar. The assault cannon while having more shots is as likely to wound as plasma, is NOT twinlinked and only ignores armor on rending, so I'd say plasma suits it much more for forcing those 5++ saves. Wave serpents are a bit of a tough pickle to crack from what I hear, I echo the use of spawn as well or the obliterators if they don't have clear fire to the avatar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284375-beating-that-eldar-guy-with-ccsm/#findComment-3544380 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 He may be 'That guy', but his list isn't that terrible (I mean tough). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284375-beating-that-eldar-guy-with-ccsm/#findComment-3544403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz of the North Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 The list doesn't seem that bad, your opponent is sinking quite a few points into these three units, and with the fire prisms not have that stupid shield that on a roll of 2+ any pen goes to a glance they are just armor 12 vehicles and the avatar is just a model to just stay out of assault range long enough to kill the prisms and then focus on the avatar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284375-beating-that-eldar-guy-with-ccsm/#findComment-3544640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 An Eldar player who doesn't want to be 'that guy' has to go out of his way to make a really bad list on purpose. Maybe all Banshees or something like that. :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284375-beating-that-eldar-guy-with-ccsm/#findComment-3544803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Thats just because marine players dont know what the heck theyre shooting at half the time ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284375-beating-that-eldar-guy-with-ccsm/#findComment-3544827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnosaur93 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Thats just because marine players dont know what the heck theyre shooting at half the time agreed... i once had a guy so mad that he was literally throwing his models around the board and swearing at me because he could not bolter down my biomancy demon prince Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284375-beating-that-eldar-guy-with-ccsm/#findComment-3544943 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axagoras Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 a flying T8 monster is stupid. but how are 2 fire prisms that bad, just deep strike on em with some terminators with combi meltas or assault with a DP. And for the avatar hes a joke. just blow him away with some plasma guns or assault with a daemon (just dont expect to use a CCW vs him ebcause of disarming strike) tbh if he was "that guy" he would run 2 wave serpents with 10 guardians each, a wraithknight a loltarch and 3 jetbike squads for 1000, now thats a "that guy" list Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284375-beating-that-eldar-guy-with-ccsm/#findComment-3544945 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassWave Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 @Axagoras- Yup, I've played against that list before at 1000. It is soooo annoying. To be fair, my opponent was a buddy of mine and I agreed to the challenge... I lost :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284375-beating-that-eldar-guy-with-ccsm/#findComment-3545039 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 The last time I was 'that guy' I took 2 five man dire avenger squads, a farseer, and a pair of fire prisms..... for a 500pt list.To be fair, my friend was playing tau and said there was no way I could survive long enough against his pulse rifle barrages to take him.... ooops!But yeah, any player that isnt either maxing out their FA slots, dark reapers, or serpents isnt trying to be that guy vs marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284375-beating-that-eldar-guy-with-ccsm/#findComment-3545139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axagoras Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 tbh chaos can just take 2-3 dæmon princes (ally with black legion) and take a ton of cultists and some obliterators. lots of cheap scoring units for objectives and 3 deamon princes is obscenely hard to kill in a 1k point game. Here 2 DPs (1 tzeentch 1 khorne) with power armor and wings, black mace and axe of blind furry for extra attacks, 30 some cultists and 2x2 nurgle olbits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284375-beating-that-eldar-guy-with-ccsm/#findComment-3545246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted December 14, 2013 Author Share Posted December 14, 2013 Yeah in retrospect maybe it wasn't as bad as I initially thought. Maybe it's just panic from seeing 3 powerful units come into play at 1000 points. The lists were as follows: Eldar: - Avatar w/disarming strike and some other power - 2x Fire Prisms - 10x Dire Avengers - 10x Guardians with a D-Cannon platform - 10x Storm Guardians w/2x Power Swords, 2x Fusion Guns - 5x Warp Spiders Chaos: - Terminator Lord with Axe of Blind Fury and 4++ save - 4x Chaos Terminators w/4x Combi-Plasma - 10x Chaos Space Marines w/Power Weapon Champ, Melta Bombs, 2x Plasma Guns - 10x Chaos Space Marines w/Power Weapon Champ, Melta Bombs, 2x Plasma Guns - 2x Nurgle Oblits - 5x Bikers w/Melta Bomb Champ & 2xMeltaguns *Edit: Also as far as running mobs of cultists and spawn, I'm not going to completely revamp my whole army. The point of this campaign was to try and run lists true to fluff, thus my Night Lords aren't very tolerant of things like cultists, spawn, and demons. Those are all my allies area of expertise considering he's running Word Bearers. What seemed kind of absurd from a fluff point was the fact that his Craftworld was waking up a freaking WAR GOD for what amounted to a minor skirmish in a swamp. We all talked it out and agreed to no borderline super-heavies like the Wraithknight below 1500, same goes for the Avatar, for while it's perfectly fine to go to the FLGS and game as hard as you like, none of the participants in our campaign have anything that can go toe-to-toe with the avatar, especially when it can take your burning blade or axe of blind fury and just flick it out of your hand on a dice roll. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284375-beating-that-eldar-guy-with-ccsm/#findComment-3546414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axagoras Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 the best way to kill the avatar is grav and plasma and he goes down pretty quick, with disarming strike never get in CC with it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284375-beating-that-eldar-guy-with-ccsm/#findComment-3546435 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted December 14, 2013 Author Share Posted December 14, 2013 the best way to kill the avatar is grav and plasma and he goes down pretty quick, with disarming strike never get in CC with it Easier said than done with a 4x4 map and an objective that allows you to only move 6 inches a turn and stops you from running. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284375-beating-that-eldar-guy-with-ccsm/#findComment-3546490 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axagoras Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 drop pods... oh wait traitors dont get those Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284375-beating-that-eldar-guy-with-ccsm/#findComment-3546644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 tbh chaos can just take 2-3 dæmon princes (ally with black legion) and take a ton of cultists and some obliterators. lots of cheap scoring units for objectives and 3 deamon princes is obscenely hard to kill in a 1k point game. Here 2 DPs (1 tzeentch 1 khorne) with power armor and wings, black mace and axe of blind furry for extra attacks, 30 some cultists and 2x2 nurgle olbits. 3 Princes is close to 700 points upgraded. Oblits are pretty expensive too, although you could go min cultists. Not all that useful either seeing how the princes could be disarmed so easily of their expensive weapons. Nope no fancy grav or drop pods (for some reason which we may never find out). Heinrich, I'd suggest going shooty with more of your obliterators, maybe use a slightly cheaper lord and use your terminators as termicide. Unless you are playing fluffily during the actual game. I think you'd also get more help if you asked in the chaos forum, they might not be too cheerful but they might be able to help tailor your list with the models you do have. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284375-beating-that-eldar-guy-with-ccsm/#findComment-3546661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naminé Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Yeah in retrospect maybe it wasn't as bad as I initially thought. Maybe it's just panic from seeing 3 powerful units come into play at 1000 points. The lists were as follows: Eldar: - Avatar w/disarming strike and some other power - 2x Fire Prisms - 10x Dire Avengers - 10x Guardians with a D-Cannon platform - 10x Storm Guardians w/2x Power Swords, 2x Fusion Guns - 5x Warp Spiders Chaos: - Terminator Lord with Axe of Blind Fury and 4++ save - 4x Chaos Terminators w/4x Combi-Plasma - 10x Chaos Space Marines w/Power Weapon Champ, Melta Bombs, 2x Plasma Guns - 10x Chaos Space Marines w/Power Weapon Champ, Melta Bombs, 2x Plasma Guns - 2x Nurgle Oblits - 5x Bikers w/Melta Bomb Champ & 2xMeltaguns *Edit: Also as far as running mobs of cultists and spawn, I'm not going to completely revamp my whole army. The point of this campaign was to try and run lists true to fluff, thus my Night Lords aren't very tolerant of things like cultists, spawn, and demons. Those are all my allies area of expertise considering he's running Word Bearers. What seemed kind of absurd from a fluff point was the fact that his Craftworld was waking up a freaking WAR GOD for what amounted to a minor skirmish in a swamp. We all talked it out and agreed to no borderline super-heavies like the Wraithknight below 1500, same goes for the Avatar, for while it's perfectly fine to go to the FLGS and game as hard as you like, none of the participants in our campaign have anything that can go toe-to-toe with the avatar, especially when it can take your burning blade or axe of blind fury and just flick it out of your hand on a dice roll. I don't play chaos but I do play Eldar; I can assure you that his list is anything but a 'That guy' list. Any list with storm guardians is NOT a 'That guy' list. The scariest thing he has is the unit of Warp spiders. I will mention that he cannot have a D-cannon platform among guardians though. Now onto tips for beating it: Avatar is generally taken to make the other Eldar fearless. This means he wants his troops to survive, however, bolters will prevent any of his guardians from getting an armour save, so I would load up on shots and flamers and go for those first. As you mentioned it's a small board, so make that work against him and wipe out his troops. The Fire prisms are no match for assault, and again the small board will severely hamper where he can go to avoid your units. Even a single round of grenades will take them down without any trouble. The warp spiders are a big threat but again you just need to bolter them down. Avatar dies to bolters, Heavy bolters, assault cannons, autocannons, anything with lots of shots. its only a 3+ save. If he DOES get into combat something with a good invulnerable save will hold him up. Keep tanks away from him though, he has a melta gun that can fire twice, hits on 2+ and re-rolls to hit. Combined with battle focus and fleet this means he will be tough to avoid. Hope this helps Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284375-beating-that-eldar-guy-with-ccsm/#findComment-3546901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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