Question about KSons sorcerors Warning: Ahriman Spoilers

[Uberlord Gendo]

So, I've seen in some threads that Ahriman seems not to serve Tzneetch directly, but rather seeks to cure his brothers and redeem himself in the eyes of the Emperor.  Of course, Ahriman also seems to have gone a bit mad in the process, so what do you all think of a Thousand Sons warband who have a similarly antagonistic view towards chaos.  Perhaps they're even in league with Bel'Akor.  Either way, they're probably just serving Tzeetch's plans, but they figure they've nothing to lose by trying.

As a result, they see themselves as still loyal, and whenever able they'll aid the Imperium, since they believe humanity's destiny is to become a psychic race.  Of course, their quest to defeat chaos is waaaay more important to them than human lives, so they'll burn down your city if they think it is the only way to get that tome.

So far so good, keeps to the fluff and keeps them from being 'good guys'.

Now here's the real question.  How about if they hate daemons with a burning passion and so bind them and summon them to fight for them.  Particularly Khornate Daemons.

 

Think it makes sense?  Or would Khorne just throw a skull at them and be done with it?

[elithren]

Ahriman is all about restorying Prospero and the knowledge lost, not caring about Tzeentch or any of that chaos garbage (lol).  While the fluff certainly sounds more like a renegade chapter more then a Tsons warband, I could see it happen as I bet Ahriman wasn't the only person who hates Tzeentch and/or Magnus. Heck, you could even base them off one of the fleets that Magnus sent away from Prospero before the attack.

 

As for daemons, the book A Thousand Sons shows pretty well that their tutileries (spellcheck) were pretty much bound daemons.  You could stick to that route and use khorne rules, or whatever daemon you want.

[Uberlord Gendo]

Hmmmm, then in that case, how about a chapter tasked to fight Chaos in a sector, worked closely with a radical inquisitor who went off the deep end.

Cut off from resupply and suspected of heresy anyways, they managed to capture a Thousand Son Sorceror who'd they'd been tracking.  They hadn't been expecting what they found in the interrogations---he being vehemently anti-chaos and actually had been fighting Chaos in the area with his fleet while looking for a grimoire.  The inquisitor, who has daemonblades and daemonhosts sanctions this collaboration and they proceed to use Chaos against Chaos, resupplying off of their foes and summoning Daemons.  (which allows me to explain away the noise marines)

Over time, their crusade against chaos becomes increasingly obsessive and there's always the fear that this is all just as planned.

 

 

 

 

 

(Is this where I'd stick the IA for such a thing anyways?)

[*Furyou Miko]

Tutelaries were mentioned by name in the 4e Codex: Chaos Space Marines under the section on Familiars.

 

Also mentioned was the fact that Ahriman's quest for the Black Library is in order to gain the power of a god and destroy Tzeentch in the name of vengeance.

[daveNYC]

Google up Confessions of a Wayward Son.  Some good 1k Sons fanfic on the subject.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

^^^^ That don't think it has been updated in a while though :/

[Tenebris]

Overall the Thousand Sons are scholars at heart, warriors only when they are forced to commit to action. I think while Ahriman can be the "template" upon which to judge many true Thousand Sons one must also contemplate the very nature of the scions of Magnus. Some are in for power, some are in for vengeance, some are in for immortality, but all are in for the knowledge. Tzeentch is a favorable patron to the Thousand Sons, and being scholars they try to understand, manipulate and develop the magic talent inherent in their bloodline. 

 

The problem comes when we try to define the true goals of the Thousand Sons. Is it vengeance... well I think not, not on the level of the other legions, there is a novel where a Tsons Sorcerer openly declares that he is not an original Thousand Sons marine, that he has been created from magic and flame to serve his Legion and that he will not answer for the bitterness of the Long War. That his forefathers, the ancient brothers of the XV fought not only to bring light but also to bring freedom, freedom from the shackles of Legion and kin, freedom from the cruse of the Thousand Sons bloodline, freedom from the Imperium and the freedom to do as you choose and please. 

 

I think that most of the recent Thousand Sons pursue this intellectual freedom, freed from the shackles of doctrine and worship and free to pursue the heights of power you can obtain if you are strong enough, smart enough, wise enough. 

 

Do they hate daemon? Not really, but you can count on a Thousand Sons that he knows more of the daemon than all the other legions combined. It is also widely known that the followers of Tzeentch actively create the cults more suited to their long term agenda, be it Khornate, Slaaneshi or even Nurglite cults, as long as the ultimate goal serves the Changer of Ways and the XV legion. This means that a Thousand Sons Sorcerer will feel no problems if he used a myriad of daemons, even is most were of the other gods, in order to obtain a long term gain for his legion. 

 

Do they hate other legions? No way, a Thousand Sons marine is a cunning, manipulative and smart as hell being who is or is not blessed by awesome magic power. I bet that the Thousand Sons Sorcerers are as much common at the side of great chaos warlords as are the dark apostles of the Word Bearers and I think perhaps even more listened to. The Word Bearer will use you openly to wage a war no longer your own, a Thousand Sons Sorcerer will betray you, and you know that, but his council will be always considered and with a long term gain obvious. 

 

This are sure broad and general terms but really being a Tzeentchian is all about power, the power over space and time, over matter and mind, over brothers and enemies, over gods and mortals, over daemons and xenos. Trough power each Sorcerer plays the Great Game seeking his own improvement but it also follows in the steps of Tzeentch and thus changes everything and everyone for better or worse. 

 

I think when you consider a Thousand Sons marine the first thing that should spring to mind is not magic but open mindedness. An open mind, highly disciplined and trained, open to ideas, open to collaboration, open to new ways, open to any change and any shape. The Thousand Sons are beings of the mind, they live in the unbarred confines of their mind, minor concerns like physical mutation, perillious knowledge or dealings with mortals and immortals are completely not relevant as long as power is gained, change happens and a personal growth both in mind and body achieved. 

[The Nephilim]

As a result, they see themselves as still loyal, and whenever able they'll aid the Imperium, since they believe humanity's destiny is to become a psychic race. Of course, their quest to defeat chaos is waaaay more important to them than human lives, so they'll burn down your city if they think it is the only way to get that tome.

So far so good, keeps to the fluff and keeps them from being 'good guys'.

How do you get this sense? The Imperium destroyed them, forced them into retreat, which lead them to the Eye and rampant mutation. Even in Ahriman, which has no reference to them still being loyal, all you get is an overwhelming sense of hatred for what happened, which the Emperior sanctioned, and the sense of despair and bitterness. Not to mention if, and that is a pretty big if, they attempted to get back into the Imperial fold, they would still be excommunicae, would still be hounded by the Space Wolves and would have to give up sorcery, which is where they derive their power.

 

The sorcerers left are highly cynical and blame Magnus as much as Ahriman. I get that from the conversation with Amon.

[Tenebris]

The Thousand Sons hate what they had to endure, they had what they have become, they hate that they are now as much as pawn and plaything for a god as are his students, they hate what has become of the Imperium and they hate that they were unable to deliver mankind from its fate and hatred for the mutant and the psyker. All in all they want change, as for change I mean a way to balance the scales once again, to embrace their destiny and to free mankind from superstition, ignorance and wanton destruction. The Thousand Sons want CHANGE!

 

Now think how would you feel to have become the very thing you abhorred, that you are now as much as slave as you are student to the very beings that you fought against, that you warded against, that you studied to defeat one day. How would you feel to see your beloved home, a veritable paradise made by human artifice and knowledge, to be razed to the ground by your barbaric kin? How would you feel to see everything that you strived for ruined in a single day?

 

I would be bitter and cynic. But as scholars I doubt that they dwell much on such concerns nowadays. 

[The Nephilim]

Tenebris, I think you and I are on the same page.

[Tenebris]

Tenebris, I think you and I are on the same page.

 

I think that is the case, yes. The Thousand Sons are my favorite legion and being myself a scholar in life, for I actively seek any form of knowledge (just counting the hours spent surfing various encyclopedia and books would stagger many people) I feel a great empathy with the XV legion. 

 

To understand the Thousand Sons is to understand the following. Why should always the learned person suffer from the blindness of the barbarian, the unlearned person? But as a learned person are you really that concerned with petty emotions and outrage like a baribarian would be, or are you above such things?

 

Those are the two sides of the same coin, the two souls of the Thousand Sons. To understand this complex forma mentis is to understand the XV Legion. 

[Brother Kirus]

 

Tenebris, I think you and I are on the same page.

 

I think that is the case, yes. The Thousand Sons are my favorite legion and being myself a scholar in life, for I actively seek any form of knowledge (just counting the hours spent surfing various encyclopedia and books would stagger many people) I feel a great empathy with the XV legion. 

 

To understand the Thousand Sons is to understand the following. Why should always the learned person suffer from the blindness of the barbarian, the unlearned person? But as a learned person are you really that concerned with petty emotions and outrage like a baribarian would be, or are you above such things?

 

Those are the two sides of the same coin, the two souls of the Thousand Sons. To understand this complex forma mentis is to understand the XV Legion. 

 

You reinforce my desire to start HH TS force! …and possible even 40k era TS army!

[The Nephilim]

You reinforce my desire to start HH TS force! …and possible even 40k era TS army!

You know what Slaanesh would say: Do it. Give in already.

[Brother Kirus]

 

You reinforce my desire to start HH TS force! …and possible even 40k era TS army!

You know what Slaanesh would say: Do it. Give in already.

 

Funny you would mention my other favorite chaos god! (-:

[*Furyou Miko]

So here's a question.

 

If Khorne (6) took the twelfth legion, and Nurgle (7) took the fourteenth legion... why did Tzeentch take the fifteenth instead of the eighteenth?

[The Nephilim]

Khorne's favored number is eight. Slaanesh is six.