chosen40k Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Are these two balanced enough to face each other? Looking to build them (well, the Loyalist side mostly as I already have the Traitor side) as a way to introduce my gaming group to 30k? Traitors (Sons of Horus + World Eaters) Maloghurst the Twisted Veteran Tactical Squad 265 pts -10 Members -Power Fist -2 Missle Launchers Rhino Legion Tactical Squad 265 pts -20 Members -Power Fist Legion Terminator Squad 190 pts -5 members -Cataphractii Terminator Armor -Reaper Autocannon Contemptor Mortis 195pts -Kheres Assault Cannon -Havoc Launcher Allied: Chaplain 95 pts -Artificer Armor Apothecary Legion Tactical Squad 265 pts -20 Members -Power Fist -Chainaxes Total: 1495 pts Loyalists (Salamanders + Iron Hands): Cassian Dracos Legion Tactical Squad -10 Members Legion Tactical Squad -10 Members Legion Rhino Legion Tactical Support Squad 120 pts -Master Crafted Plasma Pistol Fire Drake Terminators 285 pts -5 Members -Master Crafted Thunder Hammer Allied: Master of Signal 85 pts Legion Breacher Siege Squad 235 pts -2 Volkite Chargers Legion Tactical Support Squad 160 -8 members -Volkite Calivers Total: 1495pts Thank You! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284481-are-these-2-good-army-lists-to-introduce-people-to-30k/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Brother 92 Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I'd feel that if you are taking Maloghurst then take Reavers (it's his thing) otherwise just take a 'regular' centurion as you won't be able to take a RoW without a Praetor anyway and having no Reavers means you're not using Maloghurst 'properly'... Also tbh Cassian Dracos is OP in anything under 2-3k put simply he's a scoring, HQ dreadnought w/ AV 13-14 all round, immune to melta/plasma/lance/flamer, has IWND, a 5++ sv VS shooting AND gives FNP 5+ to ALL salamanders in a force he leads... Way too OP in such a small game. Everything else seems pretty fair - if your IHs don't have artillery go for a Siege Breaker or Champion instead of the MoS - currently (aside from the orbital) he doesn't add anything per-say. Either way - more people playing Heresy is always good :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284481-are-these-2-good-army-lists-to-introduce-people-to-30k/#findComment-3545511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstalker Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I disagree that Cassian Dracos is OP, and Russ Brother's perception of him is based on an incorrect understanding of his rules. He only grants FNP to Salamanders models within 3 inches. Not units with a model within 3 inches, not the entire army, just models within 3 inches. He also doesn't have any AV facing of 13, he's 14/12/10. He's damn tough with his 5++/Wrought By Vulkan/Venerable/HP4/additional front armor, but he's more expensive than a Land Raider. He ought to be tough. However, you asked if these lists are balanced, and he makes them rather... not. You haven't given the Traitor list any lascannons that could take him down from the front or fast anti-armor that could flank him and get his weak armor (aside from two missile launchers in a Rhino). Personally, I'm a little confused about why you're adding in allies at 1500 points. They're not really adding anything to the lists, you could take the units in your allied detachments in your normal force org. Is this just because you have these forces painted up this way? If 30k were a little more varied at 750 points, I might suggest you try and do 4 forces of 750 to introduce more people in your group at the same time, but at that point level you've only really got 350 points to play around with (after you get two minimum tac squads and a Centurion with a little wargear). It may not really convey the essence of 30k all that well. I'm not sure that cramming these allies in at 1500 points does it very well, either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284481-are-these-2-good-army-lists-to-introduce-people-to-30k/#findComment-3545622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Brother 92 Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 @Kitwulfen - I had indeed misread the rules regarding Cassian. I concur with the judgement that two forces of 1500-2000pts would be a far better show of Heresy gaming than having allies in such small forces (especially as even the FW guys recommend Heresy games to be 3k+) - after all Heresy is about big units, big lists and being able to fight mass warfare without the complications of apocalypse or D-weapons short of Titans (which you need to be running 4k minimum to field) - so I think if you're set on 1500 as a preview force then go for completely different armies - one as maybe a Pride of the Legion force (terminator heavy), the other as perhaps (for SoH) The Reaving with Maloghurst and scoring Reavers galore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284481-are-these-2-good-army-lists-to-introduce-people-to-30k/#findComment-3545664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosen40k Posted December 13, 2013 Author Share Posted December 13, 2013 Ahh I see then, thanks for the replies! As for the allies, I personally see the Legion rules as adding uniqueness to the armies. But I do agree, perhaps 750-1000 points works better. Also I included Maloghurst since he makes Veteran squads troops! :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284481-are-these-2-good-army-lists-to-introduce-people-to-30k/#findComment-3545863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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