IH Thunderhawk - Escalation

[Gentlemanloser]

(All credit to Dam13n! )

How do you deal with an IH Thunderhawk (In normal 40k), that is carrying the follwing unit;

MotF x2, Techmarine x2, Servitor x4.

This is a Flier that is immune to Melta, has IWND and each turn can receive 4 repairs rolls that succeed on a 2+.

Consider it either coming in from reserves (with a Comms Relay / Psychic Communion from an Inquisitor to get it in Turn 2), or starting in Hover Mode on a Landing Pad.

Don't forget, as most D strength weapons are Blasts, they can't hit it.

So, what do you do?

(Aside from Puppet Master...)

[Molokai]

Hahahaha!!!!

[PureFodder]

Step 1) Fly 2 Vultures with twin-linked punisher cannons behind it using vector dancer and drop it in one turn.

 

Step 2) Win, because your opponent just lost half his army.

[Gentlemanloser]

I probably should have mentioned this was for Escalation and 'normal' 40k games. ;)

 

I'll edit the OP.

[Grey Mage]

Two crimson hunter exarchs come in and vaporize it, I move on with the game.

[Gentlemanloser]

BS5, 4 S8 shots?  Reroll AP ofcourse.

 

4 shots, 3.33 hits, 2.5 Glance+

 

Facing 9 Hull Points, you would need 3.6 of these to take the Thunderhawk out, before it would get a chance to Repair. So outside Apoc/some funky Formation, you can't get enough to kill it in a turn.

 

Plus these are on AV10 all round Fliers with no Holofields.

[PureFodder]

2 vultures will average 5.5 pens and 5.5 glances to the rear armour per turn, and have vector dancer making that relatively simple to achieve.

 

They also cost less than the models inside it doing the repairing, let alone the Thunderhawk itself.

[Grey Mage]

Now double that, for the second one.

Im well aware of what they are. Feel free to give them guide too, its not tailored but its 90% likely to be available in most eldar lists, and a second one from either the runes of fate or a 2nd farseer isnt unlikely either, being all primaris powers. Now were looking at enough glances and penetrating hits *with +1 on the damage roll* to statistically get the 9 HP you need to drop it like an ork fighta bomba.

Now... How much AA do you think is left in the rest of the what, 800pts? Maybe a 1000? that army has left. Im betting maybe one unit, not a huge worry.

Some cheap IG valkyries would do a similar number on it- 9 twin linked BS 3 shots should give you 6.75 hits, or about a glance and three pens. Easily doing 6 HP, quite possibly doing 8-9. Finish it off with some spare heavy weapons in your platoons.

Hrmm.... 2 Stormtalons with a total of 8 TLd Assault cannon shots, 4 missile launcher shots, and a stormraven with another two missile launcher shots and a 3rd assault cannon....

6 Kraks- 4 hits, 2 glance+ with no bonus. ~10 assault cannon hits, another 2 pens. Hrmm..... looks like space marines are going to have the worst time of it, trying to take down their own superheavy... though of course there are other ways of doing this that are more efficent, I just wanted to look at how the new dataslate would do against it.
 

[Gentlemanloser]

Ah it's a new dataslate?

Did not know that!

In which case, you just take that as Space Marines, or anyone else that can ally with Eldar...

Dataslaates FTW!

2 vultures will average 5.5 pens and 5.5 glances to the rear armour

Well of course if you're stakcing it in thier Favour.

Side armour is much more likely, which is AV12 like Front.

Edit: Let's not forget it can also be on board turn 1 (as it has a Hover mode), and there's always Coteaz + Interceptor to take out the planes coming on turn two...

[Grey Mage]

2 MOTF and 2 Techies, and them each with a servitor....

Thats 320pts right there. Another 150, minimum, for the scouts you need to have a legal army. 1170pts once you add in the TH. Ok....

Coteaz. Now weve got 230pts left. Wait! That landingpad you wanted.... so now were at about 150pts.

Whats your win condition? One large blast destroyer and a handful of heavy bolter shots a turn? Two really lightweight scoring units? What exactly is Coteaz going to use "Ive been expecting you" on if you do drop in and combi-grav this bad boy into submission turn one? Or just rake it with heavy weapon fire before it takes off since it needs atleast a turn to do so?

Wheres the threat?

[Gentlemanloser]

Who says we're playing 1,500?

[PureFodder]

Ah it's a new dataslate?

Did not know that!

In which case, you just take that as Space Marines, or anyone else that can ally with Eldar...

Dataslaates FTW!

2 vultures will average 5.5 pens and 5.5 glances to the rear armour

Well of course if you're stakcing it in thier Favour.

Side armour is much more likely, which is AV12 like Front.

Edit: Let's not forget it can also be on board turn 1 (as it has a Hover mode), and there's always Coteaz + Interceptor to take out the planes coming on turn two...

Vector Dancer makes rear armour shots very easy to make, and you can take around 7 Vultures for the same points cost.

Also, on average 4 vendettas will kill a Thunderhawk in a single turn of shooting at its front armour. (4.5 AP2 pens plus 1.5 glances)

[Grey Mage]

Who says we're playing 1,500?

Its a common point value...

 

But sure, lets call it 400pts, because were at 1750. Still... not alot of room for threat outside the thunderhawk itself.

 

Or are we waiting tell 2k? And hoping they dont cripple the 650pts + Coteaz on the board in the opening salvo and decide theyll sort out their problems with the thunderhawk later?

[Gentlemanloser]

Vector Dancer makes rear armour shots very easy to make, and you can take around 7 Vultures for the same points cost.

 

Vultrues are Apocalypse, aren't they?

 

 

Also, on average 4 vendettas will kill a Thunderhawk in a single turn of shooting at its front armour. (4.5 AP2 pens plus 1.5 glances)

 

Vendettas aren't Twin-linked are they?

 

If they're not it's 3 shots, 1.5 hits, 1 glance+ per Vendetta.

Twinlinked is 2.25 hits, 1.5 glance+ per Vendetta.

 

 

Or are we waiting tell 2k? And hoping they dont cripple the 650pts + Coteaz on the board in the opening salvo and decide theyll sort out their problems with the thunderhawk later?

 

And if Coteaz lets you go first?

 

[Grey Mage]

So he lets you go first? And then what? One destroyer blast is not going to cripple my army unless Im stupid enough to take a deathstar. I havent done that since 2003 outside of test games, theres no reason to.

And yes, Vendettas are in fact 3 twin linked lascannons on a stick.

[Gentlemanloser]

1.5 Glance + per bird a turn then.

 

You'd need 6 to take the Hawk out in one turn (on average).

 

Totally manageable.  But then you need all 6 to come in the same turn.

[Grey Mage]

Wich with a master of the fleet and a coms relay is going to happen more often than not.

[Gentlemanloser]

And not have any shot down due to Interceptor or IBEY, I should have added as well. ;)

 

Totally possible though, I freely admit!

[Grey Mage]

Theres the thing... IBEY isnt very effective unless you have guns to shoot! At 250-400pts, youll not have alot to go off of, particularly with ones fortification slot taken up by that landing pad. So are you hoping to take stalkers in your HS slots to do the job?

9 Valkyries with vets and infantry is a usable army. Im waiting to see the teeth of this Thunderhawk build.

[Gentlemanloser]

Valks aren't Vendettas, and don't use the landing pad then. Use Coms relay / PC / MotF to bring the TH in turn 2.

 

Thing is, if you don't tailor your list to specifically try to take out the TH in the air, you're not going to have a hope in hell of killing it.

[Grey Mage]

But not being able to kill it is only half of the equation- if its not enough of a threat to get the job done, then it doesnt matter if its alive or dead.

[Gentlemanloser]

You're not scared of a Large blast that removes anything under it on a 2+?

 

I am.

[Grey Mage]

Not even close to scared. Proper and judicious spacing... its taking out 4-8 guys a turn, tops. Its gotta punch open those transports theyre inside too *because hey, rhino wall will get the job done here* and hope to god you arent playing cron air, because youll have almost no AA firepower outside of a couple missiles a turn, well done.

 

Mechdar? Theyll hurt a bit I suppose, but if the list is built solidly theyll shrug it off as you gun down their transports and then rip you apart with warp spiders etc. And the Wraithknight? Heh, hell more likely than not survive when you hit him with your cannon, only dies on a 6. Theyll ignore it and go for the win if theyre smart.

200 orks on the field? One large blast and a few heavy bolters... Strength D is hardly worse than a battle cannon, whatever.

 

Etc etc etc.

 

Deathstar builds will suffer, but D-weapons are there to destroy deathstar builds *wich frankly, were a horrible way to play the game most days anyways, a crutch* and they do that job well. But if you dont decide you want to counter yourself before you hit the table you have little enough to fear.

IBEY isnt hard to avoid, it really isnt. I do it all the time- itll keep one objective, maybe two, safe from drop pods.

Interceptor? Yeah, thats a bit harder... not that theres alot of it running around outside of tau. Speaking of tau....

A couple void shields gives tau their full ranged game against you, and one destroyer weapon and a handful of missiles isnt going to take it away from them.

[PureFodder]

 

Vector Dancer makes rear armour shots very easy to make, and you can take around 7 Vultures for the same points cost.

 

Vultrues are Apocalypse, aren't they?

 

 

>Also, on average 4 vendettas will kill a Thunderhawk in a single turn of shooting at its front armour. (4.5 AP2 pens plus 1.5 glances)

 

Vendettas aren't Twin-linked are they?

 

If they're not it's 3 shots, 1.5 hits, 1 glance+ per Vendetta.

Twinlinked is 2.25 hits, 1.5 glance+ per Vendetta.

Vultures are in regular 40k.

 

On average a single Vendetta will do 1.125 pens and 0.375 glances per turn, but remember that a pen has a 1 in 3 chance of getting an explosion result on the damage chart, taking an additional D3 hull points. So on average 4 vendettas is all you need to take out 9 hull points, and they costs less than half the points of the Thunderhawk + repair squad. An Officer of the Fleet lets then come on on a 2+ and as they can squadron, you have a very good chance of seeing all of them on turn 2.

 

Generally, IG don't fear Thunderhawks as our fliers can mow them down without a lot of fuss.

[Grey Mage]

Vultures are FW theyre in regular 40k if youre group allows it.... and theyre a pretty solid choice if available.

 

Also, heres the FW lords of war list, includes some superheavies with serious AA capability:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/L/lordsofwar.pdf