Raptors

[Ammonius]

Double plasma gunslinger Raptor Champ? That could be fun in Kill team, just add preferred enemy.

 

Just to make sure I understand how that wargear setup is being achieved, it is making use of the "Up to 2 Raptors..." Entry to give the Champion the other plasma pistol?

[Fibonacci]

 Just to make sure I understand how that wargear setup is being achieved, it is making use of the "Up to 2 Raptors..." Entry to give the Champion the other plasma pistol?

There are some places that rule "may trade one weapon for ..." rules to be taken as many times as you have a weapon to replace.

[Ammonius]

 

 Just to make sure I understand how that wargear setup is being achieved, it is making use of the "Up to 2 Raptors..." Entry to give the Champion the other plasma pistol?

There are some places that rule "may trade one weapon for ..." rules to be taken as many times as you have a weapon to replace.

Cool, I'll have to see what the local folks say, I have wanted a plasma/plasma gunslinger (for rule of cool) since the 6th ed book came out.

[Fibonacci]

Here's an argument to allow it:

In the Raptor army list section it says "The Raptor Champion may take items from the Melee Weapons and/ or Ranged Weapons sections of the wargear list."  When GW writes their rules they always use "and/or" to denote an option that may be taken multiple times. 

 

Also, for the cost to put 2 plasma pistols on a model I don't think you will find anyone claiming the aspiring champion would be overpowered.

[Kol Saresk]

This is a topic? Discussing Raptors and how to use them? Hallelujah, praise Lord Marshal! I've found the UnderVerse!

[Iron Father Ferrum]

And we're generating *constructive* advice! Praise the Dark Gods!

[Ammonius]

I think I can see my way to building one or two "Raptor Response Squads" that I would mostly use in Apoc games that has two Plasma guns and a Pistol-Packing Aspiring Champion and one guy who stands in front.

 

These guys would work like Termicide except if they weren't instantly killed in the next shooting phase, they could bounce around causing problems with jump troop movement+24" range plasma shots. I love it when I have to ask my opponents to move so I can move my guys around on "their" side of the table :)

 

Also it would make use of the parts of the Raptor kit I haven't been cannibalizing for Noise Marines :)

[crucial]

 

I have a squad of CSMs/Chosen in a Rhino backed up by a raptor squad. The Rhino mounted squad pushes up, disembarks, and unloads with bolters and plasma, while the Raptors come screaming overhead and "Kick in the door" engaging and pinning the victim unit in assault if not wiping them entirely, the Chosen/CSM unit joins in the fray after the fact if needed, or get back into the rhino.

Curious to know if this works? Does the jump pack offer enough movement to follow the rhino, jump over it and charge the enemy in a single turn?

 

Im imagining a list with rhino mounted csm with combi plasma etc with a raptor support thing going on. Bike cud probs do it better but damn those models are fugly.

[Prot]

I think maybe you can go two ways really... tool 'em up and let them rip into the opposition with support of course. Probably looking at no less than 8 models.

 

Or go termicide style with vanilla champ. Either way we know melta's are popular, but I'm willing to experiment with some different ideas before I glue everything together.

[Forté]

Magnets may be the option here for special weapons. Even the plasma pistols too. I've only just started using them and it's easier than I thought it would be. 2mm x 1mm N52 should do it.

 

This thread is great. I've not started putting mine together yet so this is all food for thought.

[zyl-]

Plasma gunslinger? It's so high risk-high reward that I love it.

 

As for raptors in general, I have commonly used the melta raptors as deep strikers (outflankers when lucky) to hit the back lines fast. Termicide does about the same thing, but the raptors are so much more likely to be able to drop, tank kill, and charge next turn.

[daboarder]

eh, gets hot is pretty much a non issue this edition.

[Sception]

The point is, when it comes to the regular squad member upgrades, meltaguns on raptors are objectively better, while costing five points less.

[daboarder]

than a pistol, sure. than a plasma gun....yeah thats not really an easy call to make.

 

we are of course talking about the pistols on the champ, who can't get a meltagun

[the jeske]

then buy him a combi melta , it is not like a raptor unit will get to shot multiple times per game .

[daboarder]

still not objectively better.

 

though in a plasma gun squad a combi-plas might be the most efficient.

[zyl-]

I don't think we are really going with effecient if we are putting 30 points of plasma on a 1W 3+ model that can get challenged out. Once  you go down that road, it ends at bikers, anyhow.

 

Funny and rediculous would be more the category. And that is how quite a few people enjoy things.

[Beachymike123]

just my 2p on the subject. 

my raptors were formerly berzerkers under the gavdex. then i switched to the siege vanguard assault list, they became vanguard vets and i remodeled them with jump packs. i should also state at this point i was going for a visually striking unit as opposed to anything else.

but then i started using the CSM codex and they became raptors. i run them with double plasma pistol, champ has a power sword and plasma pistol, and they have the MoK. and by the dark gods do they tear into the opponent (my neighbour plays marines, one of my brothers plays tau, guard and CSM, other brother plays necrons). generally, my opponent concentrates on my range heavy units (predator, havocs etc) that buys the raptors some time while they hide behind cover, then they let rip when they're close enough and do a great job. i should also point out that they have had some uncannily great luck when its come to dice rolls (whether its saves or my opponent's rolls to wound my raptors). but they do the job i want them to. they haven't worked every single time but they have a very specific role and they usually make their points back and then some. they may not be optimum, but they sure are damn fun. 

[the jeske]

Does the sm venguard list somehow buffs assault space marines or plasma pistols ?

[Beachymike123]

Does the sm venguard list somehow buffs assault space marines or plasma pistols ?

 

not really so much buff but they have a more necessary place. with the SM vanguard assault list you HAVE to get the siege objective which is placed by your opponent, if you don't get it you will only get a draw. essentially the list is full of momentum as you try to get the objective, and the assault marines and vanguard vets help achieve that. 

 

back on topic: raptors are great and i certainly favour them due to my love of them. 

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Something I've been thinking about since I noticed that raptors have fear,  would anyone say raptors with the mark of slaanesh are any good? at only 2 meltabombs to give it to a 5 man squad, it doesn't seem that bad, giving them a little boost against inititave 4 and 5 opponents and working nicely with the fear rule against craftworld eldar forces.

[Sception]

with a five man squad, I doubt they're going to have the offensive impact sufficient to make the investment worthwhile.  I mean, against marines that's, what, 16 attacks with the champ?  8 hits?  4 wounds?  oneish dead marines - so you'll have saved all of one return attack against tacticals?

 

For a slightly larger squad, maybe escorting a character?  maybe a mounted slaaneshi lord for outflank?  burning the points on a power sword for the champ?  I don't know, maybe.  the banner's probably too much to be worth it, but I'd like to see it tried.  The more you spend on them, the more the superior staying power of the bikes make raptors look like a poor choice by comparison.

[BassMattJaxx]

I've had better luck/results by using the raptors as a character escort and or counter-assault unit. I think having the mindset of raptors acting as a front-line assault squad tends to undo people. 

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Just used them today, in both games I ran them as 5 men with one flamer, power maul on the champion, mark of Slannesh and boon of mutation, and was against eldar.

First game saw them get a first turn charge on 15 guardians and a farseer thanks to Ahriman, which saw the champion kill the farseer, getting an extra wound, two died from overwatch. They were then spent the next few turns killing guardians (who failed fear checks a few times, but I was rolling terribly, of the first 3 turns of combat the champ was only killing one a turn) before getting gunned down by dark reapers except the champion who charged the reapers and after a turn got killed.
Second game they were with a Sorcerer, and got nomed by an Avatar and striking scorpion unit.
Overall I think they did okay, with the second game I made a mistake in positioning, plus got unlucky in the Avatar just survived my armies shooting, amd y champion failed to kill him with overwatch :p (He hit him, then rolled a five to wound). Not sure how they would work without infltration, as that is what allows them to get the first turn charge, but I can see them with a couple of melta's, possibly the cheap jump sorcerer, being a way to deal with the likes of riptides or tau battle suit teams, though as always against Tau I would need the first turn or auto lose.

[Forté]

Nice input RPR.